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Post by bonanzadriver on Jan 16, 2018 9:06:21 GMT -5
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Post by papipeguy on Jan 16, 2018 9:20:32 GMT -5
I love seeing the green numbers on the Big Board but am also wary of the potential downward adjustment. As Al Cashin is fond of saying, "Stay nimble."
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Post by Darin on Jan 16, 2018 9:59:40 GMT -5
Glad to have made some cabbage in this run but certainly weary of the bubbles waiting to pop. Steep angles on charts make me nervous.
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Post by zambini on Jan 16, 2018 10:28:51 GMT -5
Glad to have made some cabbage in this run but certainly weary of the bubbles waiting to pop. Steep angles on charts make me nervous. I agree, so much of the rise in stocks is due to the recuperating price of oil worldwide that one can imagine what will happen once the latest OPEC production decrease agreement fails and prices tumble once again.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 16, 2018 11:35:17 GMT -5
The stock market is only up in relation to the actual value of the US dollar, which has become almost totally worthless. The media has a way of pointing us to the government way of looking at things. If people could just see reality for 10 seconds, everyone would run screaming into the ocean while tearing at their hair. Their pretty little color charts and smiling faces are nice though, huh?
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Post by zambini on Jan 16, 2018 12:21:50 GMT -5
The stock market is only up in relation to the actual value of the US dollar, which has become almost totally worthless. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price inflation rose by about 7% since January 2013 whilst at the same time (according to the NYSE) the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose by 92%. If anything the average price of stocks is far outpacing the declining worth of the US Dollar over the last 5 years. From what I understand the main issue with the US economy over the last 5 years isn't so much about whether it can generate growth but about how it can distribute wealth. goodcalculators.com/inflation-calculator/money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 16, 2018 12:39:19 GMT -5
The stock market is only up in relation to the actual value of the US dollar, which has become almost totally worthless. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price inflation rose by about 7% since January 2013 whilst at the same time (according to the NYSE) the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose by 92%. If anything the average price of stocks is far outpacing the declining worth of the US Dollar over the last 5 years. From what I understand the main issue with the US economy over the last 5 years isn't so much about whether it can generate growth but about how it can distribute wealth. goodcalculators.com/inflation-calculator/money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/It depends on if you believe the inflation numbers. The bottom line is that the dollar is a shadow of it's former self. In the 1930s,you could go to a movie for a nickel, now it's $16. The real test is gold. 1977 $36,2018 $1380. And that is even artificially controlled.
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Post by herbinedave on Jan 16, 2018 12:50:49 GMT -5
I wanna bang the gavel!
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Post by Darin on Jan 16, 2018 13:08:06 GMT -5
$DXY is up compared to post 2008 numbers. However, the recent dip is good for exports. Also, optimistic attitudes toward the new tax reform are pulling companies back and offering jobs. I still say it's correction time someday soon, though.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 16, 2018 13:21:45 GMT -5
Adjusted for inflation, today's dow is worth about $1000 in 1916 dollars.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 14:21:34 GMT -5
I'll just jump into the time machine and go back to 1916 with $1000.00 (in Silver Dollars) and buy Dunhill's, then zip back. * on further reflection,I might just stay.
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Post by zambini on Jan 16, 2018 14:38:21 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics consumer price inflation rose by about 7% since January 2013 whilst at the same time (according to the NYSE) the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose by 92%. If anything the average price of stocks is far outpacing the declining worth of the US Dollar over the last 5 years. From what I understand the main issue with the US economy over the last 5 years isn't so much about whether it can generate growth but about how it can distribute wealth. goodcalculators.com/inflation-calculator/money.cnn.com/data/markets/dow/It depends on if you believe the inflation numbers. The bottom line is that the dollar is a shadow of it's former self. In the 1930s,you could go to a movie for a nickel, now it's $16. The real test is gold. 1977 $36,2018 $1380. And that is even artificially controlled. Whether the numbers are being fudged is a different argument but in terms of provoking economic growth, inflation is a net positive. As I understand it, the basic argument goes that inflation represents an opportunity cost for consumers that stimulates them to spend today instead of saving as they fear the loss in the value of their money in comparison to that of goods. Deflation makes consumers think that as their money appreciates over time in comparison to the value of goods and services that they should save their money until a better offer for said goods and services becomes inevitable. The key example of deflation's effect on consumers and the economy being Japan in the 1990s but you can also see this in department store sales figures in the weeks leading up to a large price reduction event. In short inflation stimulates aggregate demand for goods and services which stimulates production which is measured as economic growth whilst deflation reduces aggregate demand for goods which restrains production which is measured as economic stagnation. The problem with inflation is when it gets so high that people either lose faith in the economic system overall (leading to an economic crash or currency devaluation) or in closed system where no additional production can be had (leading to hoarding and speculation). People try to establish whether inflation is risky by determining by its causes: Demand-pull inflation vs. cost-push inflation and whether it's manageable by its effects on existing restraints on the factors of productions. I don't have a text on hand to reference but I hope the following helps: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demand-pull_inflationwww.slideshare.net/opaprb/ch13-9301579
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Post by Darin on Jan 16, 2018 15:40:14 GMT -5
Good stuff, zambini! Besides the standard inflation / deflation that can exist, we have really been experiencing Stagflation. There has been a steady increase in the prices of goods with no real increase in salaries. (except for those at the "top")
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Post by trailboss on Jan 16, 2018 15:45:19 GMT -5
Bullets, Beans, Baccy, Beer
The four basic survival groups when the carnival ride stops.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 16, 2018 16:13:56 GMT -5
I'll just jump into the time machine and go back to 1916 with $1000.00 (in Silver Dollars) and buy Dunhill's, then zip back. * on further reflection,I might just stay. Yeah, stick around for the trench warfare, mustard gas, and the Spanish Flu. You know, the good old days.
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Post by zambini on Jan 16, 2018 16:38:56 GMT -5
Good stuff, zambini ! Besides the standard inflation / deflation that can exist, we have really been experiencing Stagflation. There has been a steady increase in the prices of goods with no real increase in salaries. (except for those at the "top") In case you want to check it out this paper on the subject of economic concentration of labor markets on wages is really good: www.nber.org/papers/w24147
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Post by Darin on Jan 17, 2018 6:14:10 GMT -5
Good stuff, zambini ! Besides the standard inflation / deflation that can exist, we have really been experiencing Stagflation. There has been a steady increase in the prices of goods with no real increase in salaries. (except for those at the "top") In case you want to check it out this paper on the subject of economic concentration of labor markets on wages is really good: www.nber.org/papers/w24147Sounds like an interesting read but it's a link to purchase the article. I'll check out those stats online though. Thanks!
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Post by sparks on Jan 17, 2018 9:05:30 GMT -5
That might sound good on paper, but the average American trying to put food on the table is not looking at it as an opportunity cost. They are saying "shite, I could barely put food on the table before, now what the hell am I going to do with prices skyrocketing."
A vast majority of Americans can't save, let alone choosing not to save because they fear the loss of value in their money.
The majority of the people in this country are riddled with debt and don't make enough income to register much above the poverty line. While the soaring stock market might be helping everyone's 401k a little, the reality is that it's a small minority that is truly benefiting.
Big booms always lead to big busts. All one needs to do is look at history for proof.
Hold on to your shorts everyone. My 2 cents.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 9:27:21 GMT -5
There are as many boomers who don’t even have a savings account as those which own just a small portfolio.
This ship sailed in 2009. Time to take profit and begin moving some to a cash position to take advantage of the next down turn.
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Post by sparks on Jan 17, 2018 9:44:21 GMT -5
There are as many boomers who don’t even have a savings account as those which own just a small portfolio. This ship sailed in 2009. Time to take profit and begin moving some to a cash position to take advantage of the next down turn. That's a great plan actually. Downside for someone like me is all my investment at this point is 401k. I'm not sure I can take any out to make liquid without penalty. I would like to diversify a bit more and have some investments that are not just big mutual funds, but having that cash to do it is another story.
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Post by Darin on Jan 17, 2018 9:55:38 GMT -5
There are as many boomers who don’t even have a savings account as those which own just a small portfolio. This ship sailed in 2009. Time to take profit and begin moving some to a cash position to take advantage of the next down turn. That's a great plan actually. Downside for someone like me is all my investment at this point is 401k. I'm not sure I can take any out to make liquid without penalty. I would like to diversify a bit more and have some investments that are not just big mutual funds, but having that cash to do it is another story. If you really believe the next correction is around the corner, pull out of the stocks and move your balance to a Fixed Income type of account. You'll still get about 3% return and be sheltered from the stocks if / when crashing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 10:00:13 GMT -5
That's a great plan actually. Downside for someone like me is all my investment at this point is 401k. I'm not sure I can take any out to make liquid without penalty. I would like to diversify a bit more and have some investments that are not just big mutual funds, but having that cash to do it is another story. If you really believe the next correction is around the corner, pull out of the stocks and move your balance to a Fixed Income type of account. You'll still get about 3% return and be sheltered from the stocks if / when crashing. Keeping one’s powder dry and maintaining a proper balance is best whenever possible as opposed to timing markets.
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Post by sparks on Jan 17, 2018 10:11:53 GMT -5
Keeping one’s powder dry and maintaining a proper balance is best whenever possible as opposed to timing markets. My current 401k portfolio is pretty diversified. In a nutshell, I have about 25% in higher risk Growth Funds, 55% in Growth & Income, 10% in Equity Income and 10% in Balanced.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 11:19:01 GMT -5
Keeping one’s powder dry and maintaining a proper balance is best whenever possible as opposed to timing markets. My current 401k portfolio is pretty diversified. In a nutshell, I have about 25% in higher risk Growth Funds, 55% in Growth & Income, 10% in Equity Income and 10% in Balanced. After I retired last year, I did what Darin said in my retirement accounts and went to a 40% fixed income position. The returns aren’t huge but it will soften the blow during the next down turn. I took profit from my outside investment accounts as soon as capital gains season ended last year because a lot of the juice from the expected tax cuts was already baked into stock prices and I wanted to ensure locking in a positive return after a great eight year ride in markets. Corporate valuations are beginning to rise as well as are interest rates. JMHO but I don’t expect anything negative to happen in equities as long as corporate earnings support this scenario and economic indicators continue to be positive; however, higher interest rates pose a potential risk to the bond market. Small caps are normally the canaries in the coal mine for equities. When markets attain sufficient risk, they’re normally among the first to show those effects. Precious metals are a good hedge as well. Silver is currently cheap at $17 and change per Troy ounce and it’ll always be worth something.
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Post by Darin on Jan 17, 2018 11:27:36 GMT -5
My favorite ... love the shiny! I bought a bunch when it was last at $15ish and sold at $21 ... rinse and repeat. I've also been buying oil in the dips for about 2 years now ... cash out time is coming.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 11:38:21 GMT -5
My favorite ... love the shiny! I bought a bunch when it was last at $15ish and sold at $21 ... rinse and repeat. I've also been buying oil in the dips for about 2 years now ... cash out time is coming. The 10 year chart says it all. Just a few years ago silver was almost $45/ounce. It’s being fully mined at present. Used extensively in manufacturing, a global manufacturing run could produce the next similar run.
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Post by Darin on Jan 17, 2018 12:17:11 GMT -5
My favorite ... love the shiny! I bought a bunch when it was last at $15ish and sold at $21 ... rinse and repeat. I've also been buying oil in the dips for about 2 years now ... cash out time is coming. The 10 year chart says it all. Just a few years ago silver was almost $45/ounce. It’s being fully mined at present. Used extensively in manufacturing, a global manufacturing run could produce the next similar run. What's your favorite Rounds / Coins? It's whatever the cheapest 0.999 is for me ... Buffalo, raised Morgans, etc ... Although, I do have some of the Perth Mint offerings as they are of a nice quality and gain value each year. Royal Canadian Mint stuff too ... very nice animal series.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 12:49:30 GMT -5
That's interesting about silver. Never even thought about it. Do you guys buy locally or online?
Investing is not my area at all, so I sat down with a broker where I have an account and told her what I wanted: a dream combo of low risk, growth, and income while protecting capital - and only with socially responsible companies or funds. She did a great job walking me through her thinking and rationales, and answering all my newbie questions - but had me approve all her suggestions. She even asked what social issues I care about - like alcohol, tobacco, and gambling as opposed to big arms dealers, countries with dictators, etc. She found some great mutual funds that do just what I was looking for and often beat the category benchmarks. My portfolio is slightly out of whack with the fixed income allocation. 25% is a bit too low, but maybe I'll ride it out for a while and reap the benefits of this boom.
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Post by Darin on Jan 17, 2018 13:08:06 GMT -5
That's interesting about silver. Never even thought about it. Do you guys buy locally or online? Investing is not my area at all, so I sat down with a broker where I have an account and told her what I wanted: a dream combo of low risk, growth, and income while protecting capital - and only with socially responsible companies or funds. She did a great job walking me through her thinking and rationales, and answering all my newbie questions - but had me approve all her suggestions. She even asked what social issues I care about - like alcohol, tobacco, and gambling as opposed to big arms dealers, countries with dictators, etc. She found some great mutual funds that do just what I was looking for and often beat the category benchmarks. My portfolio is slightly out of whack with the fixed income allocation. 25% is a bit too low, but maybe I'll ride it out for a while and reap the benefits of this boom. Sounds like you found yourself a good broker! As for Silver ... online and local both. If you establish a relationship locally, it's a lot easier to sell when the time comes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2018 13:28:27 GMT -5
The 10 year chart says it all. Just a few years ago silver was almost $45/ounce. It’s being fully mined at present. Used extensively in manufacturing, a global manufacturing run could produce the next similar run. What's your favorite Rounds / Coins? It's whatever the cheapest 0.999 is for me ... Buffalo, raised Morgans, etc ... Although, I do have some of the Perth Mint offerings as they are of a nice quality and gain value each year. Royal Canadian Mint stuff too ... very nice animal series. Currently, I’ve been watching APMEX auctions on EBay. They run sales on 20 coin rolls marginally above point every now and then just like flash sales on Pipes and Cigars. It’s as addictive too - SAD!
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