|
Post by sperrytops on Oct 4, 2019 19:16:00 GMT -5
Here's a couple of my favorite passages from Silmarillion, and why I think it's extraordinary, though harder to read than Tolkien's novels he actually wrote. Beren sees Lúthien (Galadriel's grandmother by the way) for the first time: Blue was her raiment as the unclouded heaven, but her eyes were grey as the starlit evening; her mantle was sewn with golden flowers, but her hair was dark as the shadows of twilight. As the light upon the leaves of trees, as the voice of clear waters, as the stars above the mists of the world, such was her glory and her loveliness; and in her face was a shining light.After Túrin finds out his wife is actually his sister, and slays the messenger in a rage: There he drew forth his sword, that now alone remained to him of all his possessions, and he said, 'Hail Gurthang! No lord or loyalty dost thou know, save the hand that wieldeth thee. From no blood wilt thou shrink. Wilt thou therefore take Túrin Turambar, wilt thou slay me swiftly?'
And from the blade rang a cold voice in answer: 'Yea, I will drink thy blood gladly, that so I may forget the blood of Beleg my master, and of Brandir slain unjustly. I will slay thee swiftly.'
Then Túrin set the hilts upon the ground, and cast himself upon the point of Gurthang, and the black blade took his life.Now that sounds like a Greek tragedy (Oedipus cycle). Only he married his mother, not his sister. But then in those days, they didn't keep good records, did they?
|
|
|
Post by sperrytops on Oct 4, 2019 19:21:49 GMT -5
I read the Hobbit, then LoTR, then the Silmarillion. As said above, the Hobbit was focused on a younger audience and the LoTR on an older audience. The Silmarillion was actually published by JRRT's son, if I recall correctly, from his dad's notes. The Silmarillion was a history of both the undying lands and Middle earth. However a lot of what Tolkien wrote was taken from Welsh mythology. The Silmarillion is a bit of a harder read as it is not really a single tight story line like the earlier books. It's a loosely woven set of tales that take place before the Hobbit, time wise.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2019 13:20:51 GMT -5
I read The Hobbit every 5-6 years. One of my favorites. I refuse to watch the movies after seeing the 1st segment. LOTR would be the way to go after that before Silmarillion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2019 12:35:44 GMT -5
Years ago I made it through The Hobbit, but never tackled LOTR. I saved the paperbacks all those years, the ones you put together to farm a mural of Middle Earth. I also picked up (never read) The Silmarillion. If I can improve my ability to attain a "Larger than Gnat" attention span should I go for The Hobbit and LOTR or should I attempt Silmarillion first? That look like a total mess at a glance. I have all the audio books, as well. Would that be easier? I began LOTR by reading the timeline in the indexes. I believe this made all the difference in my enjoyment of the trilogy.
|
|
|
Post by Huxfords Hiatus on May 8, 2020 19:52:57 GMT -5
The Silmarillion should, IMO, be read last. The Hobbit first. The Hobbit, and Lord of The Rings trilogy really create, in your imagination, a strong curiosity for the material in The Silmarillion. In my attempt to read it first I quickly asked myself, why do I care. After reading the others, I understood why I care. Exactly my feelings on this. Read the Lord of the Rings many times over the years and when I heard about the Silmarillion I wanted to know more of the lore because of what I had already read. Having said that, I never finished Silmarillion as it was just too much, I guess. Now that I’m much older I may try again.
|
|
|
Post by Huxfords Hiatus on May 8, 2020 20:03:31 GMT -5
I read The Hobbit in 1966 at age 15 and not again. LOTR I have read at least twice over the eons and, to be honest, bores me to sleep these past several years. For me, the movies kind of killed the whole thing. Replacing my imagination with the filmmakers images did no one a service.
Sadly the movies killed it for me too. Tried reading Fellowship of the Ring after watching the movie trilogy, and couldn’t get the actors faces out of my mind, not to mention the artistic liberties Peter Jackson added or removed from the movies. The movies were at times well done and fun but it just interfered too much with Tolkien’s writing, in my opinion. As a result, I never did bother to watch the Hobbit “trilogy” that came out. I still enjoy the cartoon by Rankin & Bass though. Childhood nostalgia.
|
|
|
Post by Ronv69 on May 9, 2020 0:22:19 GMT -5
I read the novels straight through years before the movies came out, but I never really was interested in the Silmarilon. I did try to read it after my son raved about it, but I couldn't get past the first chapter. It was about as interesting as Numbers. He said that after that it has some pretty good stories, so I might try it again and start later in the book.
|
|
|
Post by Ronv69 on May 9, 2020 0:24:37 GMT -5
I read The Hobbit in 1966 at age 15 and not again. LOTR I have read at least twice over the eons and, to be honest, bores me to sleep these past several years. For me, the movies kind of killed the whole thing. Replacing my imagination with the filmmakers images did no one a service.
Sadly the movies killed it for me too. Tried reading Fellowship of the Ring after watching the movie trilogy, and couldn’t get the actors faces out of my mind, not to mention the artistic liberties Peter Jackson added or removed from the movies. The movies were at times well done and fun but it just interfered too much with Tolkien’s writing, in my opinion. As a result, I never did bother to watch the Hobbit “trilogy” that came out. I still enjoy the cartoon by Rankin & Bass though. Childhood nostalgia. That was an intense flik. It made a real impression on me. Of course I was in the properly altered state of mind when I saw it at the theater 🎭.
|
|
|
Post by pappyjoe on May 9, 2020 9:05:18 GMT -5
I read The Hobbit in 1966 at age 15 and not again. LOTR I have read at least twice over the eons and, to be honest, bores me to sleep these past several years. For me, the movies kind of killed the whole thing. Replacing my imagination with the filmmakers images did no one a service.
Sadly the movies killed it for me too. Tried reading Fellowship of the Ring after watching the movie trilogy, and couldn’t get the actors faces out of my mind, not to mention the artistic liberties Peter Jackson added or removed from the movies. The movies were at times well done and fun but it just interfered too much with Tolkien’s writing, in my opinion. As a result, I never did bother to watch the Hobbit “trilogy” that came out. I still enjoy the cartoon by Rankin & Bass though. Childhood nostalgia. While the movies were entertaining they changed the storylines to fit the medium. For example, in the Hobbit book there is no romance between an elf maiden and one of the dwarves. In the LOTR movies, Peter Jackson also seemed to cherrypick parts of the books and changed or left out other pieces. In the final movie he completely left out the battle for the Shire at the end.
|
|
|
Post by Gandalf on May 10, 2020 22:31:40 GMT -5
I read the novels straight through years before the movies came out, but I never really was interested in the Silmarilon. I did try to read it after my son raved about it, but I couldn't get past the first chapter. It was about as interesting as Numbers. He said that after that it has some pretty good stories, so I might try it again and start later in the book. Same for me. I 've read The Hobbit and Lord Of The Rings several times - before the movies - but could never get more than a chapter or two into The Silmarillion.
|
|
|
Post by simnettpratt on May 11, 2020 12:11:22 GMT -5
I and my now ex-friends consider ourselves the biggest Tolkien fans in the world. I first read The Hobbit when I was fifteen, and remember the great sadness when it was over, followed by great shock when my sister told me there were THREE! more, and was very disappointed when I finally realized they weren't going to be about Bilbo, but this Frodo guy, who was probably the weakest character in the series.
I had the second half of the Beren and Luthien chapter memorized, but never got to tell it to a girl. Did learn Elvish script, and would write letters to a buddy in Oklahoma City. Sometimes I wouldn't understand certain words he wrote, because he wrote with an American accent!
One of my friends actually took a jewelry class, so he could make us magic rings. He had each of us secretly describe the rest of us with one word (they had to be complimentary), then wrote that word in Elvish on the rings, but the script wasn't visible until he heated the ring in the fireplace. His wife got the first ring and I got the second. They were silver, not gold, but he showed us the ring and asked if we could see any writing - we could not. Then he carefully heated the ring in the fire and the script literally glowed; it was awesome.
It only worked the once, and was visible from then on, but still really cool. Said his teacher didn't know how he did it.
|
|
|
Post by Ronv69 on May 11, 2020 16:05:11 GMT -5
Guy who checked us out at Aldi today had on a Harry Potter mask. He said his mom made it for him. She's the biggest fan. There are a lot of great stories out there, so choosing just one as a way of life is not advised. 😏🤠
|
|
|
Post by Gandalf on May 11, 2020 22:27:46 GMT -5
I and my now ex-friends consider ourselves the biggest Tolkien fans in the world. I first read The Hobbit when I was fifteen, and remember the great sadness when it was over, followed by great shock when my sister told me there were THREE! more, and was very disappointed when I finally realized they weren't going to be about Bilbo, but this Frodo guy, who was probably the weakest character in the series. I had the second half of the Beren and Luthien chapter memorized, but never got to tell it to a girl. Did learn Elvish script, and would write letters to a buddy in Oklahoma City. Sometimes I wouldn't understand certain words he wrote, because he wrote with an American accent! One of my friends actually took a jewelry class, so he could make us magic rings. He had each of us secretly describe the rest of us with one word (they had to be complimentary), then wrote that word in Elvish on the rings, but the script wasn't visible until he heated the ring in the fireplace. His wife got the first ring and I got the second. They were silver, not gold, but he showed us the ring and asked if we could see any writing - we could not. Then he carefully heated the ring in the fire and the script literally glowed; it was awesome. It only worked the once, and was visible from then on, but still really cool. Said his teacher didn't know how he did it. Sounds a lot like my experience. I was bummed out when I realized Bilbo wasn't a major character in the Lord of the Rings - but Frodo soon grew on me. I bought a leather bound, gilt edge paged, hardcover version of the Hobbit, with huge fold out maps of Middle Earth - and one day I realized I could "decode" the Middle Earth runes that appeared on the cover and book spine - and on the maps, by comparing the runes to the "translations" in the story. I figured out that this rune was an "a", and that rune was a "b" and another rune was "ie", until I had the whole alphabet. I ended up creating a custom font on my computer - which at the time was an Apple IIc (circa 1982). Then I could print or display any text using the "Tolkien" font and it would display or print out in the Middle Earth runes. Of coarse, once I completed this little project, I never used it again.
|
|
|
Post by Ronv69 on May 11, 2020 22:32:44 GMT -5
Samwise is the hero of Lord of the Rings. Without him, Frodo would have given up and died. He was 100% committed to his friend.
|
|
|
Post by simnettpratt on May 11, 2020 23:58:58 GMT -5
Then I could print or display any text using the "Tolkien" font
That's awesome. Sounds like you went more Dwarvish and I Elven. It was cool to find out the reasons Dwarves and Elves were the way they were from The Silmarrilion. Samwise was essential, even being a ring-bearer for a critical save after Frodo was captured, but so was Gollum.
I have an autobiography of Tolkien I thought would suck (I don't care where he taught or lived), but found some interesting trivia in there. When the Black Riders showed up, he had no idea who or what they were, and why they were quite plainly seeking the hobbits. It was only on the way to Bree that he wrote in the margin, 'Make it about the Ring'.
He killed Gandalf in Moria because he got stuck and had writer's block for a while, which is why the Balrog seemed to come out of nowhere to kill one of the main characters. Fortunately, in a fantasy setting, death doesn't necessarily write you out of the story and he got sent back.
|
|
|
Post by pappyjoe on May 12, 2020 8:34:06 GMT -5
Then I could print or display any text using the "Tolkien" font That's awesome. Sounds like you went more Dwarvish and I Elven. It was cool to find out the reasons Dwarves and Elves were the way they were from The Silmarrilion. Samwise was essential, even being a ring-bearer for a critical save after Frodo was captured, but so was Gollum. I have an autobiography of Tolkien I thought would suck (I don't care where he taught or lived), but found some interesting trivia in there. When the Black Riders showed up, he had no idea who or what they were, and why they were quite plainly seeking the hobbits. It was only on the way to Bree that he wrote in the margin, 'Make it about the Ring'. He killed Gandalf in Moria because he got stuck and had writer's block for a while, which is why the Balrog seemed to come out of nowhere to kill one of the main characters. Fortunately, in a fantasy setting, death doesn't necessarily write you out of the story and he got sent back. It won't work in this forum, but you can now find Dwarvish or Elven fonts for use. I use Elder Futhark which is considered the oldest of the runic alphabets. It was the writing system of northwest Germanic tribes and the Norse and spread to the British Isles by the Celts.
|
|
|
Post by sperrytops on May 12, 2020 11:02:23 GMT -5
Then I could print or display any text using the "Tolkien" font That's awesome. Sounds like you went more Dwarvish and I Elven. It was cool to find out the reasons Dwarves and Elves were the way they were from The Silmarrilion. Samwise was essential, even being a ring-bearer for a critical save after Frodo was captured, but so was Gollum. I have an autobiography of Tolkien I thought would suck (I don't care where he taught or lived), but found some interesting trivia in there. When the Black Riders showed up, he had no idea who or what they were, and why they were quite plainly seeking the hobbits. It was only on the way to Bree that he wrote in the margin, 'Make it about the Ring'. He killed Gandalf in Moria because he got stuck and had writer's block for a while, which is why the Balrog seemed to come out of nowhere to kill one of the main characters. Fortunately, in a fantasy setting, death doesn't necessarily write you out of the story and he got sent back. It won't work in this forum, but you can now find Dwarvish or Elven fonts for use. I use Elder Futhark which is considered the oldest of the runic alphabets. It was the writing system of northwest Germanic tribes and the Norse and spread to the British Isles by the Celts. Calling it a writing system is a bit of an overstatement. At the period of use of the Elder Futhark, 2nd to 6th century, it's believed the runes were a closely held secret of tribal priests, and used for mystical worship. They are not really letters but symbols of natural elements, so really couldn't be used for communication as we know it. That's why they disappeared with the introduction of Christianity and Latin.
|
|
|
Post by sperrytops on May 12, 2020 11:37:16 GMT -5
It won't work in this forum, but you can now find Dwarvish or Elven fonts for use. I use Elder Futhark which is considered the oldest of the runic alphabets. It was the writing system of northwest Germanic tribes and the Norse and spread to the British Isles by the Celts. Calling it a writing system is a bit of an overstatement. At the period of use of the Elder Futhark, 2nd to 6th century, it's believed the runes were a closely held secret of tribal priests, and used for mystical worship. They are not really letters but symbols of natural elements, so really couldn't be used for communication as we know it. That's why they disappeared with the introduction of Christianity and Latin. I must correct my own statement here. In the early Middle Ages Runes had been abstracted to represent phonemes thus allowing them to be used for written communication. Many scholars feel Runes are derived from Etruscan with some early Greek alphabetical influence. Excuse my error here.
|
|
|
Post by Gandalf on May 25, 2020 13:07:36 GMT -5
I came across this and thought it was interesting. A short video about the origin of pipe weed in the Shire.
|
|
|
Post by addamsruspipe on May 25, 2020 13:23:43 GMT -5
Found this on youtube. Thought it was very cool.
|
|
longtom
Junior Member

Posts: 221
Location:
|
Post by longtom on Feb 22, 2021 10:09:49 GMT -5
In my humble opinion...
Read The Lord of the Rings first, from front to back. Then re-read every 5-7 years. It is a treatise on the nature of Good and Evil, and on this subject it is as good as anything that has been written in the history of humankind.
Read the Hobbit as a fun side-quest, at will.
Read the Silmarillion when/if you're interested enough in the back story of LOTR.
|
|
|
Post by simnettpratt on Feb 22, 2021 13:54:02 GMT -5
Yep. Remember, the Silmarillion is just a collection of notes his son made into a book after his death. Tolkien didn't intend them to be published.
|
|
|
Post by Ronv69 on Feb 22, 2021 16:02:58 GMT -5
Yep. Remember, the Silmarillion is just a collection of notes his son made into a book after his death. Tolkien didn't intend them to be published. I started reading the Silmarillion, and it was only a little less interesting than the Book of Numbers.
|
|