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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 17:46:51 GMT -5
A 78 year old homeowner, confronted by two burglars half his age. He stabbed one, the other fled. He has been arrested and charged with 2nd degree Murder.* There's something arse backwards about this English justice system. What do they do about a home invasion, invite them in for tea?
* Source: Sky News - 4/4/2018
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Post by zambini on Apr 4, 2018 18:00:07 GMT -5
Surely this is why they have a trial.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:09:21 GMT -5
Yes, he is going to trial, charged with murder. A pensioner, I hope he can raise bail.
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Post by zambini on Apr 4, 2018 18:20:38 GMT -5
Yes, he is going to trial, charged with murder. A pensioner, I hope he can raise bail. I'm guessing that the dead man was unable to provide police with a statement leaving the accused to provide the only account of the incident. As the police are not responsible for dispensing justice I can understand it going to trial. I'm sure the police will provide a report to the prosecutor and defendent who will use it in bail court and the judge will take it into consideration. Unless there are laws that impose a blanket ruling of x amount for bail or pretrial detention I fail to see how the system described isn't working.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 18:30:39 GMT -5
His wife was present too (which put him in full protective mode). In the U.S. reports are done, the resident summoned (if there is any further court action). They are not hauled off to jail and imprisoned for protecting their home and family.
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Post by zambini on Apr 4, 2018 18:54:39 GMT -5
His wife was present too (which put him in full protective mode). In the U.S. reports are done, the resident summoned (if there is any further court action). They are not hauled off to jail and imprisoned for protecting their home and family. Yeah, I've read that many US states have coded 'Defense of Castle/Manor' statutes. From my understanding the UK allows a defense to be raised on these grounds as a result of common law but it isn't codified in anyway that the police could use as reasoning to not arrest the person.
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Post by Matthew on Apr 4, 2018 19:26:22 GMT -5
Here in Oklahoma we have the "Make my Day" law,or as Z puts it Defense of Castle.The police first determine if the home owners account is plausable,then the District Attourny decides if charges should be levied.Unfortunatly this means that people who have had issues with the Law are summarily arrested and held until they prove their innocense.Please forgive my spelling.
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Post by puffy on Apr 4, 2018 19:28:20 GMT -5
Here In N.Carolina if someone breaks in you can assume that your life is in danger and use whatever force is needed to protect yourself.
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Post by peterd-Buffalo Spirit on Apr 4, 2018 19:46:18 GMT -5
Here In N.Carolina if someone breaks in you can assume that your life is in danger and use whatever force is needed to protect yourself. ...same law(s) exist here in Tennessee...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:50:32 GMT -5
forgot to mention, that the 2nd Perp was witnessed fleeing, so between his wife and neighbors, it was not as though he was inventing some justified scenario.
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Post by Matthew on Apr 4, 2018 19:54:05 GMT -5
This reminds me of they 13 year old girl who dropped the assailant with a 12 guage.She was an award winning Skeet Shooter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:54:58 GMT -5
Did the thieves have weapons, or did they physically assault the man? If not, I'm not sure murder is justifiable.
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Post by zambini on Apr 4, 2018 19:56:32 GMT -5
Did the thieves have weapons, or did they physically assault the man? If not, I'm not sure murder is justifiable. Could explain why they filed 2nd degree charge.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 19:59:01 GMT -5
Did the thieves have weapons, or did they physically assault the man? If not, I'm not sure murder is justifiable. The dead criminal had a screwdriver and the homeowner said employed as a weapon. The second thief was unarmed.
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Post by oldcajun123 on Apr 4, 2018 21:19:40 GMT -5
You come in my house without me opening the door for you, if I can help it the only way you're out is in a body bag, nuff said.
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 4, 2018 21:44:25 GMT -5
Texas! 'nuf said.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 21:53:03 GMT -5
In Texas, after dark, if you are seen committing a crime deadly force by a citizen is allowed. Forgot what news show I heard that on, but it's Jake with me
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 22:11:03 GMT -5
Originally from England, I have experienced this myself, I didn't kill anyone but I did break the burglars knee cap with a cricket bat, I was arrested and released on bail, my attorney told me to plead not guilty and plead self defense, it did not go to trial as the judge threw out the case.
If you cannot protect you family or your home, then you might as well leave the doors open for anyone to take advantage!
There is uproar in England the way he has been treated!
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Post by trailboss on Apr 4, 2018 22:44:32 GMT -5
Thankfully, here in the USA, most jurisdictions would favor a 78 year old and allow him to take out the trash. A young punk thug looking to prey on an easy victim under disparity of force laws, allows a person to react with deadly force when faced with loss of life or limb. www.personaldefenseworld.com/2014/06/disparity-force-five-real-life-self-defense-cases/Sadly, in Great Britain, the laws seem to coddle the criminals and prosecute old men.... a man’s home is his castle is a quaint notion. If a herd of unarmed attackers are so irrational as to attack me for no reason, I am going to focus on the alpha dog and give him a double tap... if his buddies don’t quickly realize that they failed victim selection 101, they will be getting lead injections as well. I am not going to have my brains stomped in the gutter without fighting back. I have a 12 gauge on my side of the bed along with a duty belt that has a 45/flashlight, and pepper spray. The wife has the M1 carbine with 15 rounds and her Sig Sauer. All our home guns have laser sights, and anyone coming up the stairs is going to face a hail of hell. Not paranoid, it is just best to have options and luck favors the prepared.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2018 23:10:36 GMT -5
I have Stallone a Belgium Mallinois, who would LOVE for someone to break into our home!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 0:31:39 GMT -5
Genuine self-defense is one thing, when it's really a case of "life or limb". But taking some f-ed up kid's life for stealing my TV? I don't value material objects higher than human life. Same when someone is shot for shoplifting from Walmart or whatever. That's not a fair trial.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 1:09:15 GMT -5
Genuine self-defense is one thing, when it's really a case of "life or limb". But taking some f-ed up kid's life for stealing my TV? I don't value material objects higher than human life. Same when someone is shot for shoplifting from Walmart or whatever. That's not a fair trial. I'm torn between two philosophies, maybe more. I love watching the Doomsday Prepper series and having to have things delivered I order by the case, so one half of our duplex looks like a warehouse. As to guns, I have a pellet. I also have a wrist rocket slingshot. I've had guns, but am not very good at them. I still feel guilty about the couple times I slaughter cattle in a slaughterhouse. IOW, I am probably the last person who should have one. I understand both lines of thought, Besides, what criminal could withstand my pepperoni belches?
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Post by Legend Lover on Apr 5, 2018 3:22:38 GMT -5
There have been many cases in the UK when the law has come down on the side of the perpetrators rather than the one protecting their property. It's certainly not treated in the same way as in USA.
In this case we don't know all the details to make a true analysis of what went on. That said, murder, to me, is pre-meditated. I'm surprised it wasn't classed as manslaughter rather than murder.
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Post by steveinny on Apr 5, 2018 3:29:42 GMT -5
I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 14:29:11 GMT -5
Burglar 'stabbed to death' in raid on pensioner's home was wanted for robbing another old aged pensioner!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 18:23:05 GMT -5
Well, he made bail, but he and his disabled wife can't return to their home as it has been designated as a Crime Scene.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 20:35:36 GMT -5
What is the saying, the law sucks?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 23:14:07 GMT -5
What is the saying, the law sucks? Paraphrasing Gibran, They take great delight in making the laws and even greater delight in breaking them.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2018 23:18:10 GMT -5
Here in Oklahoma we have the "Make my Day" law,or as Z puts it Defense of Castle.The police first determine if the home owners account is plausable,then the District Attourny decides if charges should be levied.Unfortunatly this means that people who have had issues with the Law are summarily arrested and held until they prove their innocense.Please forgive my spelling. That's the case here in Colorado as well.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Apr 5, 2018 23:23:05 GMT -5
Unless we're missing a good bit of the story here, I can only speculate that 'Mr Knife' will walk.
Also! 78 and kills an intruder in a melee! He's earned the Lee Marvin Medal in my opinion.
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