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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 15:02:45 GMT -5
Wow, sounds like you're pretty susceptible to the changes, jeffd . I'm a lifelong sea-level dweller (coastal CA, NY, UK) who found himself living at c. 6,700 ft. about 5 years ago. I started smoking pipes here so don't have much to compare to, but will see if I notice any difference when I'm in CA in a few weeks. I haven't paid attention on other trips. I do know that I feel lighter on my feet and have more stamina at sea level. I think a lot depends on where you were born. I get more migraines and other minor health issues here than I ever did anywhere else, and it's really not that high. Over the weekend we went hiking in the ski basic, c. 10,400 ft. and that definitely affected all of us - including the dog. ...too many family members and climbing companions have suffered and died from altitude sickness... nothing to f*** around with... That's scary. Do you know what kind of heights, or does it just depend on the person? There are thousands of skiers and hikers that flock to this area, but I have no idea what % might have a problem. |
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Post by jeffd on Sept 25, 2018 15:22:47 GMT -5
Do you know what kind of heights, or does it just depend on the person? There are thousands of skiers and hikers that flock to this area, but I have no idea what % might have a problem. Its likely both. Below this height almost nobody has problems, above this height this percentage has problems, above that height that percentage has problems, above that height almost everyone has some problems. I never knew I had any problems, and never felt anything in Denver, or other places, even up to 7000'. 7500' or more was a problem. |
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Post by Stearmandriver on Sept 27, 2018 0:53:13 GMT -5
I can say for certain that camp fires burn differently at altitude, and the answer is to leave more open space for air than you might down low. I'll bet packing a pipe looser might be part of the answer, but I've never tried (wasn't smoking much in my earlier backpacking days, but it's time to get the kids going on it next year so I'll let ya know lol).
Out of curiosity, for those experienced, what is the danger of smoking a pipe at altitude? Cigarettes I can understand because of the way they affect your lungs' ability to absorb oxygen, but assuming you aren't inhaling a pipe or cigar, what's the danger? Cardiovascular from nicotine affecting you more strongly? Or something else I don't know about? Honestly curious, thanks...
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Robert Perkins
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Post by Robert Perkins on Sept 27, 2018 8:29:51 GMT -5
We lived at 7200 feet (2200 meters) for about five years, and I smoked many, many pounds of tobacco up there. The key here, though, is that I actually LIVED at that altitude and I was accustomed to it. But if you are just visiting a high altitude, I agree with Dramatwist and others, don't do it. Altitude sickness is nothing to mess with. |
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Post by Darin on Sept 27, 2018 8:35:02 GMT -5
I've smoked atop several 14'ers with no problem. You'll know before you get there if it's going to be an issue.
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Post by trailboss on Sept 27, 2018 8:40:51 GMT -5
My grandpa smoked a pipe forever at 6,800′ above seal level and much higher than that...he certainly never had any problems keeping a pipe lit...I was back there a few years ago at higher altitudes than that, no problem, no problem keeping the pipe lit.
Probably more of a tobacco issue, as far as moisture content...
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 27, 2018 8:43:02 GMT -5
Wife and I spent 2 weeks at 7200'+ in October and didn't notice any difference at all. Only mild physical activity, though. A couple of 2 mile walks on mostly level ground. I did get winded walking up my friends street on Sandia though, but it's a 12% grade. Climbed about 500 feet to the end of the road.
We slept fine, but we had to adjust our cpaps for the altitude. In 40 years of going to New Mexico, we haven't had any altitude issues. Even when we went to the cabin at 11k feet and we were cross country skiing the next day. Of course we were young and in good shape back then.
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flybypipe
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Post by flybypipe on Sept 27, 2018 9:55:33 GMT -5
I can say for certain that camp fires burn differently at altitude, and the answer is to leave more open space for air than you might down low. I'll bet packing a pipe looser might be part of the answer, but I've never tried (wasn't smoking much in my earlier backpacking days, but it's time to get the kids going on it next year so I'll let ya know lol). Out of curiosity, for those experienced, what is the danger of smoking a pipe at altitude? Cigarettes I can understand because of the way they affect your lungs' ability to absorb oxygen, but assuming you aren't inhaling a pipe or cigar, what's the danger? Cardiovascular from nicotine affecting you more strongly? Or something else I don't know about? Honestly curious, thanks... When you smoke a pipe you are still absorbing nicotine (and other stuff) through the tissues in your mouth, into your bloodstream. If I remember correctly from Air Force pilot training, O2 binds twice as readily to nicotine than the red blood cells. This creates a form of hypoxia, or lack of oxygen to the brain. At this point everyone reacts differently. Part of our training involved an altitude chamber with about 12 students at a time. They would take the pressure to about 25k and have us take our masks off so we could try to recognize our symptoms of real hypoxia and put the mask back on. Hopefully this would help the pilot recognize a subtle pressurization leak in the cockpit. Some guys just passed out, some would get up and fight the safety techs, and some would go into hysterics, it just depended on what part of your brain went south first. Bottom line, if your heart, lungs, and/or brain are already struggling to get O2 because of altitude or health problems, you are just piling it on by smoking at the same time. Everyone’s mileage will vary in this situation. |
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Post by jeffd on Sept 27, 2018 10:29:13 GMT -5
Everybody is different. But that fact cuts both ways. There is no honor in surviving avoidable risky behavior. We are just different.
I once changed a tire without putting chocks aside the wheels. No problem. Changed the tire and nothing bad happened at all. !??!!
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 27, 2018 11:19:36 GMT -5
I can say for certain that camp fires burn differently at altitude, and the answer is to leave more open space for air than you might down low. I'll bet packing a pipe looser might be part of the answer, but I've never tried (wasn't smoking much in my earlier backpacking days, but it's time to get the kids going on it next year so I'll let ya know lol). Out of curiosity, for those experienced, what is the danger of smoking a pipe at altitude? Cigarettes I can understand because of the way they affect your lungs' ability to absorb oxygen, but assuming you aren't inhaling a pipe or cigar, what's the danger? Cardiovascular from nicotine affecting you more strongly? Or something else I don't know about? Honestly curious, thanks... When you smoke a pipe you are still absorbing nicotine (and other stuff) through the tissues in your mouth, into your bloodstream. If I remember correctly from Air Force pilot training, O2 binds twice as readily to nicotine than the red blood cells. This creates a form of hypoxia, or lack of oxygen to the brain. At this point everyone reacts differently. Part of our training involved an altitude chamber with about 12 students at a time. They would take the pressure to about 25k and have us take our masks off so we could try to recognize our symptoms of real hypoxia and put the mask back on. Hopefully this would help the pilot recognize a subtle pressurization leak in the cockpit. Some guys just passed out, some would get up and fight the safety techs, and some would go into hysterics, it just depended on what part of your brain went south first. Bottom line, if your heart, lungs, and/or brain are already struggling to get O2 because of altitude or health problems, you are just piling it on by smoking at the same time. Everyone’s mileage will vary in this situation. I never knew that. That's really interesting. Smoking a pipe on the beach is the way forward. |
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Post by toshtego on Sept 27, 2018 11:36:26 GMT -5
Anyone transitioning from lower to substantially higher altitude should keep a finger oximeter handy and check it often.
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flybypipe
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Post by flybypipe on Sept 27, 2018 20:30:27 GMT -5
I reread my earlier post to this thread and thought it might come across a little judgmental. That is not my intent. Just thought I would try to answer spearmandriver’s question and point out some risks as I see them. I personally would smoke at altitude, but I would be aware. For me, judgement and reasoning are the first to go when O2 deprived, so I would stay away from CigarBid and eBay! This is an example of hypoxia induced by blood drawn away from the brain by g-forces: Blue Angel Ride |
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 27, 2018 20:54:48 GMT -5
I must say that I misunderstood Kelly's original post... I thought he was climbing, which is an endeavor that can be fraught with trouble... my concern was based on that assumption...
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Post by kxg on Sept 28, 2018 15:14:00 GMT -5
Just to let you all know, I'm back home from the high country, safe and sound. While I wasn't climbing, there was enough exertion in my closing-the-cabin duties to let me know there wasn't as much O2 as per normal.
I did enjoy a AF 8-5-8 and a bowl of OGS on my return trip!
I appreciate all the advice and the science behind my short breath.
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 28, 2018 15:18:40 GMT -5
Just to let you all know, I'm back home from the high country, safe and sound. While I wasn't climbing, there was enough exertion in my closing-the-cabin duties to let me know there wasn't as much O2 as per normal. I did enjoy a AF 8-5-8 and a bowl of OGS on my return trip! I appreciate all the advice and the science behind my short breath. Glad to know you're home safe. You learned a lot about pipe smoking at high altitude while you were at it. |
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flybypipe
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Post by flybypipe on Sept 28, 2018 18:03:56 GMT -5
Glad to know you're home safe. You learned a lot about pipe smoking at high altitude while you were at it.
+1 Glad to hear you’re home.
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Post by That Falls Guy on Sept 28, 2018 18:17:02 GMT -5
Just asking, as I no nothing on the subject.....What is the difference where you are smoking the pipe as long as you aren't inhaling the stuff?
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Post by trailboss on Sept 28, 2018 18:38:17 GMT -5
Just asking, as I no nothing on the subject.....What is the difference where you are smoking the pipe as long as you aren't inhaling the stuff? Good point....the trace amounts ingested by me are pretty small. As for nicotene effects at high altitudes...for rats like me, it has a positive effect. www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22131316 |
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Post by Stearmandriver on Sept 29, 2018 13:53:19 GMT -5
When you smoke a pipe you are still absorbing nicotine (and other stuff) through the tissues in your mouth, into your bloodstream. If I remember correctly from Air Force pilot training, O2 binds twice as readily to nicotine than the red blood cells. This creates a form of hypoxia, or lack of oxygen to the brain. At this point everyone reacts differently. Part of our training involved an altitude chamber with about 12 students at a time. They would take the pressure to about 25k and have us take our masks off so we could try to recognize our symptoms of real hypoxia and put the mask back on. Hopefully this would help the pilot recognize a subtle pressurization leak in the cockpit. Some guys just passed out, some would get up and fight the safety techs, and some would go into hysterics, it just depended on what part of your brain went south first. Bottom line, if your heart, lungs, and/or brain are already struggling to get O2 because of altitude or health problems, you are just piling it on by smoking at the same time. Everyone’s mileage will vary in this situation. I've done altitude chamber rides as well, my hypoxic symptoms are... Pretty funny. ;-) But, are you maybe thinking of carbon monoxide instead of nicotine? CO will bind to hemoglobin more readily than oxygen will, so it has the ability to prevent oxygen from entering your blood. That's why exhaust can asphyxiate. I've never heard of nicotine doing this though? Either way, there is obviously CO in tobacco smoke as well... The question is how much is in the body of a moderate, non - inhaling pipe smoker? We all know cigarette smokers don't do well at altitude... I wonder how much of an effect the pipe has? I was just curious what's known on the subject. I agree that risks aren't worth taking. |
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flybypipe
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Post by flybypipe on Sept 29, 2018 19:40:31 GMT -5
When you smoke a pipe you are still absorbing nicotine (and other stuff) through the tissues in your mouth, into your bloodstream. If I remember correctly from Air Force pilot training, O2 binds twice as readily to nicotine than the red blood cells. This creates a form of hypoxia, or lack of oxygen to the brain. At this point everyone reacts differently. Part of our training involved an altitude chamber with about 12 students at a time. They would take the pressure to about 25k and have us take our masks off so we could try to recognize our symptoms of real hypoxia and put the mask back on. Hopefully this would help the pilot recognize a subtle pressurization leak in the cockpit. Some guys just passed out, some would get up and fight the safety techs, and some would go into hysterics, it just depended on what part of your brain went south first. Bottom line, if your heart, lungs, and/or brain are already struggling to get O2 because of altitude or health problems, you are just piling it on by smoking at the same time. Everyone’s mileage will vary in this situation. I've done altitude chamber rides as well, my hypoxic symptoms are... Pretty funny. ;-) But, are you maybe thinking of carbon monoxide instead of nicotine? CO will bind to hemoglobin more readily than oxygen will, so it has the ability to prevent oxygen from entering your blood. That's why exhaust can asphyxiate. I've never heard of nicotine doing this though? Either way, there is obviously CO in tobacco smoke as well... The question is how much is in the body of a moderate, non - inhaling pipe smoker? We all know cigarette smokers don't do well at altitude... I wonder how much of an effect the pipe has? I was just curious what's known on the subject. I agree that risks aren't worth taking. You are exactly right! It was the CO in the cigarette smoke the instructor was talking about (1979 was a long time ago). So, is CO only absorbed through the lungs? If so, pipe smokers would be in a better (relative) position to smoke at altitude. I apologize for that mistake. 🙃 |
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Post by pepesdad1 on Sept 29, 2018 20:13:55 GMT -5
GREAT thread...I had no knowledge about this and while I don't plan any excursions to the mountains...NOW, I know. Thanks for the info., DramaTwist and others.
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Post by Stearmandriver on Sept 30, 2018 3:28:18 GMT -5
I've done altitude chamber rides as well, my hypoxic symptoms are... Pretty funny. ;-) But, are you maybe thinking of carbon monoxide instead of nicotine? CO will bind to hemoglobin more readily than oxygen will, so it has the ability to prevent oxygen from entering your blood. That's why exhaust can asphyxiate. I've never heard of nicotine doing this though? Either way, there is obviously CO in tobacco smoke as well... The question is how much is in the body of a moderate, non - inhaling pipe smoker? We all know cigarette smokers don't do well at altitude... I wonder how much of an effect the pipe has? I was just curious what's known on the subject. I agree that risks aren't worth taking. You are exactly right! It was the CO in the cigarette smoke the instructor was talking about (1979 was a long time ago). So, is CO only absorbed through the lungs? If so, pipe smokers would be in a better (relative) position to smoke at altitude. I apologize for that mistake. 🙃 Exactly the question. I sure don't know either! Speaking generally, that's one thing I found annoying when I started smoking a pipe fairly regularly: there's so little data on the health effects of pipe smoking (compared to cigarettes and even cigars) that it can be difficult to make a true assessment of risk. I mean, we know it isn't GOOD for us... But exactly how bad is it? I'm not sure I believe that old SG report saying pipe smokers live longer, but I'm also not sure I believe we're speedily killing ourselves either ;-). |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 30, 2018 7:13:55 GMT -5
You are exactly right! It was the CO in the cigarette smoke the instructor was talking about (1979 was a long time ago). So, is CO only absorbed through the lungs? If so, pipe smokers would be in a better (relative) position to smoke at altitude. I apologize for that mistake. 🙃 Exactly the question. I sure don't know either! Speaking generally, that's one thing I found annoying when I started smoking a pipe fairly regularly: there's so little data on the health effects of pipe smoking (compared to cigarettes and even cigars) that it can be difficult to make a true assessment of risk. I mean, we know it isn't GOOD for us... But exactly how bad is it? I'm not sure I believe that old SG report saying pipe smokers live longer, but I'm also not sure I believe we're speedily killing ourselves either ;-). I would agree with you... But I can't ever see a study being done solely on pipe smokers since there aren't many of us around; at least not enough to make a study worthwhile. |
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