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Post by mwps70 on Dec 6, 2018 9:24:38 GMT -5
I haven't a lot of experience with smoking aged tobacco although I do have some aged tins from various makers in my cellar. But with my little experience I am blown away by how quickly Esoterica tobaccos develop bloom (I have always called it plume but I have been corrected lol). I cracked an aged tin of Samuel Gawith Chocolate Flake and it had some nice bloom. I was gifted it as an aged tin and held on to it for close to 3 years so I will assume 5 years when I finally popped the tin. In comparison I bought a bag of Esoterica Stonehaven and let it sit for a year. When I opened the bag there was tons of bloom. I have had a very nice amount of bloom on all of my Penzance after a short time as well. Now I just recently popped a tin of Margate which isn't a flake but is a shag cut. I have had this tin at right about a year and a half and bought it fresh. I couldn't believe the amount of bloom throughout the mixture. I have had a handful of Samuel Gawith tins at around the 3 year mark for age and yes there is a little bloom but nothing compared to Esoterica. I will apologize if any of this has been covered in another thread but is this a Germain/Esoterica thing or what? I have some other Esoterica blends besides the ones listed above that I will pop over the next year and I will be very interested to see the amount of bloom that these blends contain. How do other blenders besides Sg compare?
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Post by Legend Lover on Dec 6, 2018 11:20:17 GMT -5
I've never had tobacco stored long enough to see any bloom. Does it make much of a difference, in your opinion?
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Dec 6, 2018 11:38:06 GMT -5
Your observation parallels mine. Bloom with some Esotericas with age, more so than other blends with age. Part of it may be that they age in house longer than most, as well as shipping with a higher than usual moisture content.
Does it make a difference? Yes, but for me I think it's psychological.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 12:09:46 GMT -5
The plume that develops on a fine aged cigar looks like a fine white powder. Pipe tobacco plume looks more like sugar crystals....definitely adds a bit of sweetness ๐๐๐. Plume is not mold.
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Post by Legend Lover on Dec 6, 2018 12:16:40 GMT -5
Your observation parallels mine. Bloom with some Esotericas with age, more so than other blends with age. Part of it may be that they age in house longer than most, as well as shipping with a higher than usual moisture content. Does it make a difference? Yes, but for me I think it's psychological.ย i suppose many things are.
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 6, 2018 12:34:05 GMT -5
I recently opened a 4 years old tin of Penzance and it was saturated with mold within two days. I envy your bloom. I threw out some Bob's Chocolate Flake a while back because I believed it was molded, but I think now it was bloom.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 12:37:19 GMT -5
Plume or mold........
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Dec 6, 2018 12:44:28 GMT -5
Plume, bloom, schmoom. Really, what's in a name? It's all good. What it's not, is sugar crystals. It's just mineral content in the leaf that leaches to the surface over time. I can see where some blenders products can develop more plume/bloom than others, based on the different sources for leaf, Empire vs American, and the different processes involved. I can't recall anyone talking about the amazing bloom/plume/schoom on a ribbon cut. The manifestation always involves flakes. None of the vintage McClelland flakes that I've opened has shown any Plume/Schoom/Bloom. Maybe the acid they used as a mold inhibitor also inhibits the formation of schmoom/plume/bloom?
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Post by mwps70 on Dec 6, 2018 12:49:45 GMT -5
I've never had tobacco stored long enough to see any bloom. Does it make much of a difference, in your opinion? Other than looking incredible, lol, I think I detect more sweetness. The rest of the differences I think are just because of normal aging such as a smoother smoke.
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Post by mwps70 on Dec 6, 2018 12:50:35 GMT -5
Your observation parallels mine. Bloom with some Esotericas with age, more so than other blends with age. Part of it may be that they age in house longer than most, as well as shipping with a higher than usual moisture content. Does it make a difference? Yes, but for me I think it's psychological. That was my initial thought, that they aged in house longer. Not sure but I am sure someone knows here on the patch.
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Post by mwps70 on Dec 6, 2018 12:53:37 GMT -5
I recently opened a 4 years old tin of Penzance and it was saturated with mold within two days. I envy your bloom. I threw out some Bob's Chocolate Flake a while back because I believed it was molded, but I think now it was bloom. I bought an 8 oz. bag of Penzance years ago and the contents were so wet compared to the tinned version that I let it all air out. I did this until it was just a little moist. I think that saved me from mold. Just remember, bloom is more crystal like and will sparkle in the light. Mold will be disgusting looking and smell really bad.
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 6, 2018 13:06:14 GMT -5
I recently opened a 4 years old tin of Penzance and it was saturated with mold within two days. I envy your bloom. I threw out some Bob's Chocolate Flake a while back because I believed it was molded, but I think now it was bloom. I bought an 8 oz. bag of Penzance years ago and the contents were so wet compared to the tinned version that I let it all air out. I did this until it was just a little moist. I think that saved me from mold. Just remember, bloom is more crystal like and will sparkle in the light. Mold will be disgusting looking and smell really bad. This tin was soaking wet. I believe that the mold was already started and just waiting for a bit of oxygen to explode. It was a solid cake. The first bowl was fine, but 2 days later it was shot through with mold. It made me think of Poe's "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar"
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Post by trailboss on Dec 6, 2018 13:24:45 GMT -5
I bought an 8 oz. bag of Penzance years ago and the contents were so wet compared to the tinned version that I let it all air out. I did this until it was just a little moist. I think that saved me from mold. Just remember, bloom is more crystal like and will sparkle in the light. Mold will be disgusting looking and smell really bad. This tin was soaking wet. I believe that the mold was already started and just waiting for a bit of oxygen to explode. It was a solid cake. The first bowl was fine, but 2 days later it was shot through with mold. It made me think of Poe's "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar" I would have sent it off to Arango who is the distributor... they might blow it off, but then again they might replace it.
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Post by mwps70 on Dec 6, 2018 13:30:19 GMT -5
Plume, bloom, schmoom. Really, what's in a name? It's all good. What it's not, is sugar crystals. It's just mineral content in the leaf that leaches to the surface over time. I can see where some blenders products can develop more plume/bloom than others, based on the different sources for leaf, Empire vs American, and the different processes involved. I can't recall anyone talking about the amazing bloom/plume/schoom on a ribbon cut. The manifestation always involves flakes. None of the vintage McClelland flakes that I've opened has shown any Plume/Schoom/Bloom. Maybe the acid they used as a mold inhibitor also inhibits the formation of schmoom/plume/bloom? Finding it on the Margate with that type of cut was surprising, which is what led me to posting. Its not like a flake where the plume is really obvious on the flat surfaces but when you look closely at the strands you can see it all over. I'll see if I can take some pics when I get home tonight. Oh and I am back to calling it plume since the guy in the video above calls it plume.
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Post by mwps70 on Dec 6, 2018 13:36:47 GMT -5
This tin was soaking wet. I believe that the mold was already started and just waiting for a bit of oxygen to explode. It was a solid cake. The first bowl was fine, but 2 days later it was shot through with mold. It made me think of Poe's "The Facts in the Case of M. Valdemar" I would have sent it off to Arango who is the distributor... they might blow it off, but then again they might replace it. With my case and the 8 oz. bag of Penzance I had never seen plume before so I immediately emailed P&C, where I ordered it from. I included pics and a description of the moisture content. He said to pitch it that it was mold and he sent a replacement out. In the mean time, I didn't have the heart to pitch it so I started doing some research and discovered what plume was. What I had sure looked like plume to me so I emailed P&C back and their response was that Virginias are known to plume and there are no Virginias in Penzance. Now I believe this was a very young guy that I was talking to. I emailed him back and said yes there are Virginias in Penzance. No response so I ended up with a pound...and lived happily ever after lol.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Dec 6, 2018 13:39:06 GMT -5
Yeah, the cigar guys like to call it that! But, if it's on a video, it must be definitive. I may get to the point of not caring what it's called. Esotericas I've had all come in at over 90% RH at 70ยบ, way wetter than any others I've tried.
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Post by mwps70 on Dec 6, 2018 15:45:30 GMT -5
Yeah, the cigar guys like to call it that! But, if it's on a video, it must be definitive. I may get to the point of not caring what it's called. Esotericas I've had all come in at over 90% RH at 70ยบ, way wetter than any others I've tried. Do you guys see the same with the Germaine tins?
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Post by gav on Dec 6, 2018 17:37:08 GMT -5
I find the esterica blends seem to have shipped with more age than most
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Post by Mac on Dec 6, 2018 22:31:56 GMT -5
Yeah, the cigar guys like to call it that! But, if it's on a video, it must be definitive. I may get to the point of not caring what it's called. Esotericas I've had all come in at over 90% RH at 70ยบ, way wetter than any others I've tried. Do you guys see the same with the Germaine tins? The only one I can think of theirs that I've had in the past few years is Balkan Sobranie, and it was fairly moist, but before I started taking readings on opening bags or tins. I'm guessing the answer is yes.
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Post by stogiebear on Dec 7, 2018 10:16:17 GMT -5
About cigar plume: Act as though it doesn't exist. There's a popular Australian cigar site that wanted to analyze plume, so they sent several plumed cigars to a lab - the results were that in all cases it was actually mold. So they issued a challenge: Send us plumed cigars, we'll test them and if they are actually plumed we'll give you $250. They tested about a dozen of the most promising samples and in all cases they were either mold or bacterial growth. Now I'm not saying that cigar plume definitively doesn't exist, but if it does, it's so rare and it's so easy to mistake mold or bacteria for plume, that for practical purposes you should just assume that any plumed cigar you see is actually growing microbes and don't buy it or smoke it. The BS that retailers will feed you, wanting to sell you their cigars even though they're moldy - even respected shops like this one: www.cgarsltd.co.uk/cigar-library/plume_or_mould.html (that was written by one of the most respected tobacconists in the UK and the photos are clearly of moldy cigars) - makes it difficult enough. I've been told "if it's white it's plume" by clerks at more than one well respected shop and one time the clerk got backed up by a guy who told me he was an expert because he has 3,000 cigars at home, most have plume, it makes them taste better, he knows it's plume because it's white spots all over the sticks, and I'm an idiot. Just make it easy on yourself by staying away from cigars with white shite on them (unless it's bits off the band, which happens sometimes and is obvious when you look at it closely). Pipe tobacco plume is another story, that's minerals and sugars crystallizing as the moisture in the leaf evaporates and is reabsorbed when the temperature changes, mostly where the leaf was cut. You see it more on flakes, where most of the exposed surface area is stacked cut edges.
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Post by stone on Apr 1, 2019 9:26:35 GMT -5
I hate to bring up an older thread but I am excited! I tried the pipe ten or so years ago and while I amassed a lot of pipes and tobacco, I never got the hang of the pack and lost interest, I recently decided to sell all my stuff but got hooked again in the process of inventorying everything for sale. I had bought two 8oz bags of Stonehaven and the one that I had opened ten+ years ago had the dreaded plume or mold. I finally got a glass to view it at high magnification and am happy to find out it is plume!
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Post by Legend Lover on Apr 1, 2019 17:09:15 GMT -5
I hate to bring up an older thread but I am excited! I tried the pipe ten or so years ago and while I amassed a lot of pipes and tobacco, I never got the hang of the pack and lost interest, I recently decided to sell all my stuff but got hooked again in the process of inventorying everything for sale. I had bought two 8oz bags of Stonehaven and the one that I had opened ten+ years ago had the dreaded plume or mold.ย ย I finally got a glass to view it at high magnification and am happy to find out it is plume! That's good news. And never worry about brining up old threads. Our resident gravedigger, qmechanics will thank you.
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chasingembers
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Post by chasingembers on Apr 1, 2019 21:14:07 GMT -5
Penzance from 2007.
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Post by Legend Lover on Apr 2, 2019 3:16:54 GMT -5
Penzance from 2007. That's a close-up picture of a tree.
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chasingembers
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Post by chasingembers on Apr 2, 2019 12:56:06 GMT -5
Penzance from 2007. That's a close-up picture of a tree. Even though mostly unsmokable, it is Penzance.
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Post by Mac on Apr 2, 2019 12:59:45 GMT -5
Now, that's some nice bloom you can get behind!
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Apr 2, 2019 13:01:54 GMT -5
That's a close-up picture of a tree. Even though mostly unsmokable, it is Penzance. It looks just fine. And, yes, your disdain for P is noted.
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Post by jitterbugdude on Apr 2, 2019 13:25:11 GMT -5
The plume that develops on a fine aged cigar looks like a fine white powder. Pipe tobacco plume looks more like sugar crystals....definitely adds a bit of sweetness ๐๐๐. Plume is not mold. It is if it is on a cigar
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Post by sperrytops on Apr 2, 2019 13:31:57 GMT -5
I've had Esoterica bags and Esoterica and Germain tins. I found some of the tins a bit wet when opening, but not always and never the bags. Germain tobaccos I believe are aged prior to packaging anyway and aging simply blends the flavors more over time. Never had mold on them, and never noticed a 'bloom'.
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