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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 11:29:49 GMT -5
The main thing is, as you all well know, regardless of caliber or model, is to practice as often as you can, get good with it and be safe and sane.
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Post by simnettpratt on Dec 14, 2018 12:40:37 GMT -5
And you have to own one of all the beautiful guns until you start buying ugly ones You can get beauty and reliability. Sorry Glock. Your mileage may vary.
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Post by puffy on Dec 14, 2018 13:03:38 GMT -5
My next door neighbor in Michigan was a police lieutenant.He shot competitively.He gave me some lessons..He told me several times.You don't want to get the first shot.You want to get the only shot..Take the time to hit what you're supposed to..Let me say here I'm not gun happy.I hope sincerely that a situation never comes up that I have to use one.This world is getting pretty crazy though.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 13:07:38 GMT -5
And you have to own one of all the beautiful guns until you start buying ugly ones You can get beauty and reliability. Sorry Glock. Your mileage may vary. Definitely not a Glock fan here, or any manufacturer of a pistol that uses an internal striker. That’s just a personal preference.
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Post by trailboss on Dec 14, 2018 13:19:25 GMT -5
The shootability factor cannot be overemphasized as a few have said. Some guns are just too small for my hands, and a revolver takes a lot of practice to be proficient with (for me..), I have a Ruger LCR with Crimson trace laser grips as my backup, but I would much rather use my primary carry in a bad situation.
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Post by blackmajik on Dec 14, 2018 14:32:30 GMT -5
I used to have a PPK stainless in .380. It was reliable but being blowback it was snappy to shoot and would bite the web of my hand.
Accurate pistol though for the size and caliber. But delegated to carry pistol at best.
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Post by Quintsrevenge on Dec 14, 2018 14:36:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the input, won’t be making a decision until after the new year. Got my bonus just need the essentials for right now will get to buy stuff next month..
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 14, 2018 17:53:15 GMT -5
The main thing is, as you all well know, regardless of caliber or model, is to practice as often as you can, get good with it and be safe and sane. If I had to shoot a box of 380 out of a PPK, I would turn it around.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 18:01:52 GMT -5
The main thing is, as you all well know, regardless of caliber or model, is to practice as often as you can, get good with it and be safe and sane. If I had to shoot a box of 380 out of a PPK, I would turn it around. Ron, you need to fire the S&W 500 just once. The market is flooded with them slightly used in mint condition....I just lmao and say to myself.....WTF was wrong with you in the first place for purchasing a 500!! I fired two quick rounds and my hand went numb.
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 18:04:57 GMT -5
If I had to shoot a box of 380 out of a PPK, I would turn it around. Ron, you need to fire the S&W 500 just once. The market is flooded with them slightly used in mint condition....I just lmao and say to myself.....WTF was wrong with you in the first place for purchasing a 500!! I fired two quick rounds and my hand went numb. ...yeah, those 500s were over the line for me...
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 14, 2018 18:40:22 GMT -5
If I had to shoot a box of 380 out of a PPK, I would turn it around. Ron, you need to fire the S&W 500 just once. The market is flooded with them slightly used in mint condition....I just lmao and say to myself.....WTF was wrong with you in the first place for purchasing a 500!! I fired two quick rounds and my hand went numb. My son and I looked at some at the NRA convention in Houston. They are huge. The recoil can't be worse than my Rossi 2.25 inch compact 44 Mag. But the muzzle blast would make it seem much worse. I think. Theoretically. That's what the math says anyway. I was on a forum for Handi-Rifles when they came out. Most of the people who bought the 500 version only shot them twice. The second time was because they couldn't believe that the first shot was really that bad. No problem with 44 Mag or 45/70. The particular firearm design has a lot to do with the felt recoil. The LCP feels like about 1/3 the recoil of the PPK. Weight vs muzzle energy says otherwise. The cartridge dynamics also do curious things. A 1911 in 45 is pleasant to shoot all day. In 9mm it's like a 22. But in 38 Super I find it a miserable task.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 21:59:35 GMT -5
The Makarov is very simple internally, being comprised of only 26 parts if I recall. The PP, PPK and PPKS are considerably more complicated, having more like 45 parts or so. The Mak has more dual purpose components and in my opinion is a more robust design. As has been mentioned, the East German pistols are the most highly polished and best finished. They are very nice pistols. I have had two over the years and passed both on to good friends. They were great shooters, being very accurate. The grip was better for me than the PP, PPK/S pistols, but I moved on to pistols with greater capacity and slightly larger/longer grips for my hand. If you ever find a nice, well taken care of East German Mak for less than $400, jump on it! You will not be dissappointed.
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driftingfate
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Post by driftingfate on Dec 14, 2018 22:17:50 GMT -5
I am a huge PPK fan. Have owned multiples, but only have a stainless .380 now, 1990's vintage, with some custom work to it.
As a practical gun, there are far better on the market - it's simply a dated design whose star has burned out... unless you aren't crunching numbers and like the history and elegant lines, caliber be damned.
For the record, the .32 is much, much nicer to shoot than the .380. Would stay away from the .22's, unless a vintage model, as they aren't built to the same quality as the centerfires.
And, they really don't like cheap (re. Blazer) ammo or most hollow points. But, with a .380, it's a penetration game if carried for serious social work, so FMJ's are about as good as anything.
It's heavy for size/caliber, has crappy sights, a heavy trigger, a small dingus for a safety located in the wrong place, will bite you, is low on capacity, and is very prone to limp writsting - this is an emotional purchase. And, that's alright as long as we accept it for what it is. FBI stats are that the mere presence of a gun saves the day 14 out of 15 times - and that's based on reported incidents. How many go unreported? So, simply having a gun is Rule #1. If it's a collector's piece, then enjoy and don't stress over it.
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 14, 2018 22:32:59 GMT -5
The Makarov is very simple internally, being comprised of only 26 parts if I recall. The PP, PPK and PPKS are considerably more complicated, having more like 45 parts or so. The Mak has more dual purpose components and in my opinion is a more robust design. As has been mentioned, the East German pistols are the most highly polished and best finished. They are very nice pistols. I have had two over the years and passed both on to good friends. They were great shooters, being very accurate. The grip was better for me than the PP, PPK/S pistols, but I moved on to pistols with greater capacity and slightly larger/longer grips for my hand. If you ever find a nice, well taken care of East German Mak for less than $400, jump on it! You will not be dissappointed. I had a Romanian Makarov that was great. Very accurate for the size and totally dependable. My FIL admires it I gave it to him and it was stolen by a crack who... an unfortunate woman. I miss that gun.
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 14, 2018 22:37:11 GMT -5
I am a huge PPK fan. Have owned multiples, but only have a stainless .380 now, 1990's vintage, with some custom work to it. As a practical gun, there are far better on the market - it's simply a dated design whose star has burned out... unless you aren't crunching numbers and like the history and elegant lines, caliber be damned. For the record, the .32 is much, much nicer to shoot than the .380. Would stay away from the .22's, unless a vintage model, as they aren't built to the same quality as the centerfires. And, they really don't like cheap (re. Blazer) ammo or most hollow points. But, with a .380, it's a penetration game if carried for serious social work, so FMJ's are about as good as anything. It's heavy for size/caliber, has crappy sights, a heavy trigger, a small dingus for a safety located in the wrong place, will bite you, is low on capacity, and is very prone to limp writsting - this is an emotional purchase. And, that's alright as long as we accept it for what it is. FBI stats are that the mere presence of a gun saves the day 14 out of 15 times - and that's based on reported incidents. How many go unreported? So, simply having a gun is Rule #1. If it's a collector's piece, then enjoy and don't stress over it. This ^^^^^^ is what I have been trying to say.
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 14, 2018 22:42:12 GMT -5
I know that a lot of you will scream, but I looked at all of the available weapons in this size, and I bought a third generation Remington R51. I am very pleased with it. About the the same size and weight as the PPK, but it is super comfortable to shoot, has fantastic sights, and, oh yeah, it shoots 9mm +P. I won't recommend it because of the bad press it's had, but it deserves a shot.
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 22:44:41 GMT -5
...to my mind, the Glocks changed the whole picture... lighter, easier to carry, reliable... .380 would be the minimum caliber I trust for defense, weighing the weight/effectiveness ratio... is a .45 a better pistol in terms of stopping power? Of course. Do I want to carry one around all day? Hell, no... YMMV...
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 22:52:04 GMT -5
David's got it here...
"FBI stats are that the mere presence of a gun saves the day 14 out of 15 times - and that's based on reported incidents. How many go unreported? So, simply having a gun is Rule #1. If it's a collector's piece, then enjoy and don't stress over it."
...if more states were like Texas, and the bad guys knew that pretty much everyone is packing, the crime rate goes down. End of story. Unlike California, where I live...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 22:53:54 GMT -5
Honestly, for personal defense and that one shot knock down power I much prefer to carry a .357 or one of my .45’s. I learned from personal experience!!
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 22:58:09 GMT -5
Honestly, for personal defense and that one shot knock down power I much prefer to carry a .357 or one of my .45’s. I learned from personal experience!! I would agree, Ted, but carrying is a thing for me. I have nice .357s and .45s, but my little Taurus ACP .380 is the one that comes out of the house with me. It's light, concealable, and I'm accurate as heck with it. I usually use a Kydex holster, but I can just put it in my front pocket by itself and smile...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 23:08:34 GMT -5
I’ve shot the Taurus ACP .380 at the range a number of times. Accurate, lightweight and very well made. Call me old fashion, I’ll choose a .380 over 9mm any time.......JMPP.
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 23:11:09 GMT -5
I’ve shot the Taurus ACP .380 at the range a number of times. Accurate, lightweight and very well made. Call me old fashion, I’ll choose a .380 over 9mm any time.......JMPP. I like all of my pistols for one reason or another, but this one just fits the purpose. I know if I'm called on to act, I can rely on it.
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 23:15:30 GMT -5
The Makarov is very simple internally, being comprised of only 26 parts if I recall. The PP, PPK and PPKS are considerably more complicated, having more like 45 parts or so. The Mak has more dual purpose components and in my opinion is a more robust design. As has been mentioned, the East German pistols are the most highly polished and best finished. They are very nice pistols. I have had two over the years and passed both on to good friends. They were great shooters, being very accurate. The grip was better for me than the PP, PPK/S pistols, but I moved on to pistols with greater capacity and slightly larger/longer grips for my hand. If you ever find a nice, well taken care of East German Mak for less than $400, jump on it! You will not be dissappointed. I had a Romanian Makarov that was great. Very accurate for the size and totally dependable. My FIL admires it I gave it to him and it was stolen by a crack who... an unfortunate woman. I miss that gun. ...those Makarovs were good guns...
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 14, 2018 23:16:50 GMT -5
Texas is not what it used to be. A lot of crooks get shot every day, but they don't seem to care. They are crazy violent, even 12 years old. One guy shot four cops serving a warrant. Of course he killed himself as that was his best bet. The thing is, what's going on with these people's lives to make them make these decisions. I always though, "well even a 22 would be plenty for sane crooks. The big problem is that the daily crimes aren't committed by sane people. The youngsters stomp little old ladies to death in the streets and don't even run. So, in addition to the 44 magnum mortor in the truck, I am going to start carrying the 9mm +P. I hope that I never have to use the nastiest hollow point super penetrater reverse screw pattern bullets.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2018 23:19:20 GMT -5
I’ve shot the Taurus ACP .380 at the range a number of times. Accurate, lightweight and very well made. Call me old fashion, I’ll choose a .380 over 9mm any time.......JMPP. I like all of my pistols for one reason or another, but this one just fits the purpose. It’s how comfortable it fits in your hand and one of the most accurate.380’s I’ve had the privilege of shooting. I still go to the range often as possible. I’m carrying since ‘72, I still believe in shooting often. I have the privilege of carrying in all 50 States, if/when in NYC technically I’m suppose to notify the Commissioner’s Office of NYPD.
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 14, 2018 23:23:06 GMT -5
Texas is not what it used to be. A lot of crooks get shot every day, but they don't seem to care. They are crazy violent, even 12 years old. One guy shot four cops serving a warrant. Of course he killed himself as that was his best bet. The thing is, what's going on with these people's lives to make them make these decisions. I always though, "well even a 22 would be plenty for sane crooks. The big problem is that the daily crimes aren't committed by sane people. The youngsters stomp little old ladies to death in the streets and don't even run. So, in addition to the 44 magnum mortor in the truck, I am going to start carrying the 9mm +P. I hope that I never have to use the nastiest hollow point super penetrater reverse screw pattern bullets. Your report surprises me, Ron... I've always considered the Texas Rangers as the very best of law enforcement, though I know their numbers are not particularly large. The Plus P is an excellent choice.
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driftingfate
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Post by driftingfate on Dec 15, 2018 0:02:20 GMT -5
There is a renaissance in mouse guns going on in gun circles, based mostly on three points: 1) no sane/sober person wants to mess with an armed potential victim, 2) dovetailing on that is that no sane/sober person wants to be shot with anything so, if shot, will retreat (ie. break contact), and 3) the before stated fact that brandishing a gun is enough to end the vast majority of situations. All of that is true and logical. The obvious problem is that if you are needing to reach for a gun the odds have turned against you to begin with and you've potentially left true and logical behind. If you have to press the trigger, the odds are really against you. If breaking contact doesn't work... you want a load out of 12ga 00 buckshot. You pay your money and take your chances. I've carried .45's, I've carried .22's, I've carried nothing but swim trunks, flip-flops, and a folding knife, but always, always, always have a contingency plan. It's all a roll of the dice. For now, we live in a genteel society where ladies and gentlemen may turn aside the average scourges of society with relative ease. What the future, or your individual situation, holds is anyone's guess. All that being said, a PPK is still a cool pistol.
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Post by Ronv69 on Dec 15, 2018 0:13:30 GMT -5
Texas is not what it used to be. A lot of crooks get shot every day, but they don't seem to care. They are crazy violent, even 12 years old. One guy shot four cops serving a warrant. Of course he killed himself as that was his best bet. The thing is, what's going on with these people's lives to make them make these decisions. I always though, "well even a 22 would be plenty for sane crooks. The big problem is that the daily crimes aren't committed by sane people. The youngsters stomp little old ladies to death in the streets and don't even run. So, in addition to the 44 magnum mortor in the truck, I am going to start carrying the 9mm +P. I hope that I never have to use the nastiest hollow point super penetrater reverse screw pattern bullets. Your report surprises me, Ron... I've always considered the Texas Rangers as the very best of law enforcement, though I know their numbers are not particularly large. The Plus P is an excellent choice. The Rangers only handle FBI level crimes. I don't know how many there are, but you have to have an advanced degree and top law enforcement credentials to apply. We are short a couple of thousand cops because of the Mayor playing games, but these criminals are so bad that they just don't care if there's a cop across the street. If one interferes they shoot. Percentage wise the crime rate isn't all that high. 6+ million plus people allows a lot of crime. What I don't get is why? The economy is so good that every business in the county has a Now Hiring sign. They have been damaged by things that I can't imagine. And it's not just here, it's happening all over the world.
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Post by dervis on Dec 15, 2018 0:21:36 GMT -5
Id enjoy trying any Walther. They look amazing. That being said my EDC is a costal arms 357. Fired uncountable rounds through it. Is it accurate? To anyone else no. But if im holding it.... wouldnt try me. Point being anything is something if practiced with.
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Post by trailboss on Dec 15, 2018 0:22:56 GMT -5
If you guys get a chance, listen to the Bob Stasch interview, he has been in 14 gun fights....he is a former colleague of my buddy that is an LEO in the greater Phoenix area. Chances are none of us will ever face one of the gunfights that he was in, but it really makes you think about being prepared. Massad Ayoob interview: www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/17/interview-bob-stasch-chicago-pd-veteran-14-gunfights/He talks about a guy he encountered... Bobs partner; Unloaded 6-45 long Colt .45 Silver Point HP point blank into the guy 5-.38 Federal 158 grain lead HP +P into the guy Bob: Shot a S&W Model 29...44 Magnum 240 grain semi-jacketed flat-tops, medium velocity. 4 Rounds upper torso 1- thigh 1- kneecap the 5'7 pound perp that weighed 143 pounds took 15 gunshot wounds, and still survived for 10 days before his ticket get's punched...the guy was far below being legally drunk, no drugs in his system. I doubt that nay of us will ever face such a guy, but no one ever regretted having too much ammo/firepower after a gunfight.
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