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Post by Dramatwist on Apr 2, 2019 16:41:40 GMT -5
...most of it was done by my grandmother, Harriet Emily Owen... but I did follow it all back and verified it...
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Post by PhantomWolf on Apr 2, 2019 16:54:51 GMT -5
I love genealogy. Thanks for sharing this stuff. Turns out that both Valerie and I are descended From Edward the First, King of England. (Incest!) You may remember him as portrayed by Patrick McGoohan in the movie "Braveheart." Yes, he was a real a**hole. He built a lot of cool castles, though... We're natural enemies. haha
Clan Graham were notorious border reivers since Edward's time. When England and Scotland united as Great Britain in 1603 under James I, he stripped them of their noble rights and lands. Most died free as outlaws. Those that were captured, died in the war with Spain where they were forced to fight and the remaining members of clan Graham were actually exiled to Ireland because that D-bag King James wanted to give their ancestral lands of Netherby (being some of the most fertile farmland in England) to his foppish party friend George Clifford Earl of Cumberland.
I often wonder if my life-long habit of going against the grain was inherited.
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Post by Legend Lover on Apr 2, 2019 17:16:44 GMT -5
...lest you think I'm joking, here is what my research has uncovered... Edward I "Longshanks" (My 24th Great-Grandfather.) Edward II Edward III Lionel of Antwerp, First Duke of Clarence Philippa Plantagenet Lady Agnes Mortimer Sir Ralph Kynge Sir John Kynge Sir William Kinge Sir William Ralph Kinge Ann Kinge Ann Collinge Robert Fuller Edward Fuller Samuel Fuller Sr. Samuel Fuller Sgt. Samuel Fuller Waitstill Fuller Thomas Hartford Heath Sr. Adolphus Heath Harriet Heath Sarah Jane Marler Mary Lake Mary Jane Taylor Harriet Emily Owen Raymond Benjamin Crane Me I must give you more respect, your highness. |
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Post by Dramatwist on Apr 2, 2019 17:24:48 GMT -5
...I think if we went back far enough, all of us would be related...
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Post by Dramatwist on Apr 2, 2019 17:28:43 GMT -5
...lest you think I'm joking, here is what my research has uncovered... Edward I "Longshanks" (My 24th Great-Grandfather.) Edward II Edward III Lionel of Antwerp, First Duke of Clarence Philippa Plantagenet Lady Agnes Mortimer Sir Ralph Kynge Sir John Kynge Sir William Kinge Sir William Ralph Kinge Ann Kinge Ann Collinge Robert Fuller Edward Fuller Samuel Fuller Sr. Samuel Fuller Sgt. Samuel Fuller Waitstill Fuller Thomas Hartford Heath Sr. Adolphus Heath Harriet Heath Sarah Jane Marler Mary Lake Mary Jane Taylor Harriet Emily Owen Raymond Benjamin Crane Me I must give you more respect, your highness. LMAO |
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Post by sperrytops on Apr 2, 2019 17:40:01 GMT -5
Patrick McGoohan? Did you mean Mel Gibson? ...no, Mel was the good guy... Patrick was the bad guy... I do have a story about Patrick McGoohan. In the days when he was making the Prisoner, he lived in Pacific Palisades California. That's the same town I grew up in. It's a small beach community nestled between Santa Monica and Malibu. In the small downtown district there was at that time (no longer) a Chinese restaurant named House of Lee. It had a bar at the back which my father liked to frequent. So did Patrick McGoohan. They both spent many hours drinking together at that bar. According to my dad, when the Prisoner was finally completed, Patrick was so depressed that he no longer had that series. He would open at the House of Lee and he would close at the House of Lee. Went on for weeks (if not months) until he finally got another part (on Columbo, I think). My dad did tell me that Patrick McGoohan had some stories. He never passed those on to me however. I wish he had. I believe he was originally from Ireland. My dad said, though that Patrick would spend more time talking about his stage career than his movie career. He really loved the stage. |
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Post by Dramatwist on Apr 2, 2019 17:40:53 GMT -5
...no, Mel was the good guy... Patrick was the bad guy... I do have a story about Patrick McGoohan. In the days when he was making the Prisoner, he lived in Pacific Palisades California. That's the same town I grew up in. It's a small beach community nestled between Santa Monica and Malibu. In the small downtown district there was at that time (no longer) a Chinese restaurant named House of Lee. It had a bar at the back which my father liked to frequent. So did Patrick McGoohan. They both spent many hours drinking together at that bar. According to my dad, when the Prisoner was finally completed, Patrick was so depressed that he no longer had that series. He would open at the House of Lee and he would close at the House of Lee. Went on for weeks (if not months) until he finally got another part (on Columbo, I think). My dad did tell me that Patrick McGoohan had some stories. He never passed those on to me however. I wish he had. I believe he was originally from Ireland. My dad said, though that Patrick would spend more time talking about his stage career than his movie career. He really loved the stage. Way cool! |
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Post by sperrytops on Apr 2, 2019 17:50:43 GMT -5
I do have a story about Patrick McGoohan. In the days when he was making the Prisoner, he lived in Pacific Palisades California. That's the same town I grew up in. It's a small beach community nestled between Santa Monica and Malibu. In the small downtown district there was at that time (no longer) a Chinese restaurant named House of Lee. It had a bar at the back which my father liked to frequent. So did Patrick McGoohan. They both spent many hours drinking together at that bar. According to my dad, when the Prisoner was finally completed, Patrick was so depressed that he no longer had that series. He would open at the House of Lee and he would close at the House of Lee. Went on for weeks (if not months) until he finally got another part (on Columbo, I think). My dad did tell me that Patrick McGoohan had some stories. He never passed those on to me however. I wish he had. I believe he was originally from Ireland. My dad said, though that Patrick would spend more time talking about his stage career than his movie career. He really loved the stage. Way cool! My dad would say the Patrick was a heavy drinker. Now you need to understand that my dad was a heavy drinker. So relatively speaking, how much heavier a drinker would that have made him? Answer never to be known. Today they are both buried at the same small cemetery in Santa Monica, probably pulling down pints at the also demised House of Lee. |
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Post by toshtego on Apr 2, 2019 19:23:50 GMT -5
My dad would say the Patrick was a heavy drinker. Now you need to understand that my dad was a heavy drinker. So relatively speaking, how much heavier a drinker would that have made him? Answer never to be known. Today they are both buried at the same small cemetery in Santa Monica, probably pulling down pints at the also demised House of Lee. Great story. Thanks for sharing it with us. |
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Post by toshtego on Apr 2, 2019 19:26:23 GMT -5
...I think if we went back far enough, all of us would be related... At least you fared better than Longshank's son, Henry II. Recalling Winston Churchill's account of his murder, done in such a way as to leave no mark on him. |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Apr 2, 2019 21:02:58 GMT -5
I always enjoyed Mark Twain's novels and short stories. A few years ago, my brother and I researched our family tree and discovered that we are related to Mr. Twain (Samuel Clemens). It seemed to make his writings more interesting to us. Have you seen his Peterson pipes? They are a mess. He didn't take care of them. Smoked em for ages, though. |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Apr 2, 2019 21:03:27 GMT -5
I'm related to a long line of derelicts just like myself. Go figure  |
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Post by blackmouth210 on Apr 2, 2019 21:15:14 GMT -5
I always enjoyed Mark Twain's novels and short stories. A few years ago, my brother and I researched our family tree and discovered that we are related to Mr. Twain (Samuel Clemens). It seemed to make his writings more interesting to us. Have you seen his Peterson pipes? They are a mess. He didn't take care of them. Smoked em for ages, though. I think that was just the custom back then. From what I've read, a pipe was mostly considered disposable. They were little more than nicotine delivery systems. Pipes were smoked until they became unsmokable and then you moved on to the next one. There was rarely any babying of pipes or "collecting" of pipes as usable works of art like today. Heck, some pipes were never even reamed. With some exceptions, of course. I'm referring to the average smoker of pipes. Not the average collector of pipes. Some owners were true collectors and their pipes were kept much like most are kept by owners today. |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Apr 2, 2019 21:44:38 GMT -5
Have you seen his Peterson pipes? They are a mess. He didn't take care of them. Smoked em for ages, though. I think that was just the custom back then. From what I've read, a pipe was mostly considered disposable. They were little more than nicotine delivery systems. Pipes were smoked until they became unsmokable and then you moved on to the next one. There was rarely any babying of pipes or "collecting" of pipes as usable works of art like today. Heck, some pipes were never even reamed. With some exceptions, of course. I'm referring to the average smoker of pipes. Not the average collector of pipes. Some owners were true collectors and their pipes were kept much like most are kept by owners today. I think it all depended on who, where, when. There were plenty silver banded pipes that commanded quite a value back then. I think Mark probably would have stayed with cheap briar and cobs if his daughter didn't gift him the Peterson pipes. Pipe smoking was quite an eloquent hobby amongst the higher classes in Victorian England and Ireland. |
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Post by jeffd on Apr 3, 2019 11:46:28 GMT -5
Thing is, I don't think smoking with Mark Twain, or even Grant, would be that much of a hoot.
Judging from my experiences of my Dad's pipe smoking and that generation - I don't think folks back then talked about their smoking. You would get together with Mark Twain and it would be like getting together with Mark Twain. He would be who he would be, and smoking would be "no part of nuthin".
My Dad never talked about it, and especially when he was smoking. It was just something he did. To him it would be as ridiculous as having a discussion about how one combs his hair what are the best techniques and the best combs etc. You just figure it out and do it. You don't talk about it.
Today things are different, and talking about smoking seems is the next greatest thing to actually smoking. But that is a recent phenomena.
Now, in writing that is different. Lots of folks over the years have written about smoking. And IMO its different because writing is a kind of private conversation, a sharing of brain space. Lots of things authors have written about which they would be reticent in conversation.
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Post by Legend Lover on Apr 3, 2019 11:58:01 GMT -5
Thing is, I don't think smoking with Mark Twain, or even Grant, would be that much of a hoot. Judging from my experiences of my Dad's pipe smoking and that generation - I don't think folks back then talked about their smoking. You would get together with Mark Twain and it would be like getting together with Mark Twain. He would be who he would be, and smoking would be "no part of nuthin". My Dad never talked about it, and especially when he was smoking. It was just something he did. To him it would be as ridiculous as having a discussion about how one combs his hair what are the best techniques and the best combs etc. You just figure it out and do it. You don't talk about it. Today things are different, and talking about smoking seems is the next greatest thing to actually smoking. But that is a recent phenomena. Now, in writing that is different. Lots of folks over the years have written about smoking. And IMO its different because writing is a kind of private conversation, a sharing of brain space. Lots of things authors have written about which they would be reticent in conversation. I would agree with you. |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Apr 3, 2019 12:08:19 GMT -5
Thing is, I don't think smoking with Mark Twain, or even Grant, would be that much of a hoot. Judging from my experiences of my Dad's pipe smoking and that generation - I don't think folks back then talked about their smoking. You would get together with Mark Twain and it would be like getting together with Mark Twain. He would be who he would be, and smoking would be "no part of nuthin". My Dad never talked about it, and especially when he was smoking. It was just something he did. To him it would be as ridiculous as having a discussion about how one combs his hair what are the best techniques and the best combs etc. You just figure it out and do it. You don't talk about it. Today things are different, and talking about smoking seems is the next greatest thing to actually smoking. But that is a recent phenomena. Now, in writing that is different. Lots of folks over the years have written about smoking. And IMO its different because writing is a kind of private conversation, a sharing of brain space. Lots of things authors have written about which they would be reticent in conversation. Your comments about Twain are taken very well, and respected. I think was an era, however, long before we were ever thought of, or your father was even thought of, that things were a bit different. Life has become so complicated. There was a time when lives were shorter, and plagued with many diseases, yet simpler. I am talking about Edwardian London, Dublin. There was a time, believe it or not, before televisions, before radios. Before telephones. Can you imagine? Virtually no electronic means of communication. Its enough to make most people thesedays think doomsday situation. Men would sit in large rooms, on sofas, drinking tea and coffee. They'd light their cigars and pipes. They'd share tobacco and conversation. They'd talk about politics, war, novels they'd read. Maybe medical science, if they were doctors. I sincerely doubt most of you do anything like this regularly these days. |
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Post by jeffd on Apr 3, 2019 13:36:41 GMT -5
Men would sit in large rooms, on sofas, drinking tea and coffee. They'd light their cigars and pipes. They'd share tobacco and conversation. They'd talk about politics, war, novels they'd read. Maybe medical science, if they were doctors. I sincerely doubt most of you do anything like this regularly these days. Oh if only!!! I don't personally know enough pipe smokers to anything like that. But, to my point, while they likely did share tobacco, as well as conversation, I doubt very much they talked a lot about tobacco or pipes. Certainly not they way we do when we meet up with a fellow pipe smoker. Another reason this is true, besides the tradition of reticence I referred to, is that there are so few pipe smokers around that when we meet a few, it is more likely pipe smoking is the only thing we would have in common. I mean, folks in the past would get together with friends and those with whom they shared a hobby or intest, carving or playing cards, or billiards, or concertina and fiddle, or party or union politics, common military experiences, and in any given grouping of men, getting together for any reason at all, there were likely quite a few pipe smokers. So they would talk about what ever interested them, and likely it was not pipes and tobacco. |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Apr 3, 2019 13:47:17 GMT -5
Men would sit in large rooms, on sofas, drinking tea and coffee. They'd light their cigars and pipes. They'd share tobacco and conversation. They'd talk about politics, war, novels they'd read. Maybe medical science, if they were doctors. I sincerely doubt most of you do anything like this regularly these days. Oh if only!!! I don't personally know enough pipe smokers to anything like that. But, to my point, while they likely did share tobacco, as well as conversation, I doubt very much they talked a lot about tobacco or pipes. Certainly not they way we do when we meet up with a fellow pipe smoker. Another reason this is true, besides the tradition of reticence I referred to, is that there are so few pipe smokers around that when we meet a few, it is more likely pipe smoking is the only thing we would have in common. I mean, folks in the past would get together with friends and those with whom they shared a hobby or intest, carving or playing cards, or billiards, or concertina and fiddle, or party or union politics, common military experiences, and in any given grouping of men, getting together for any reason at all, there were likely quite a few pipe smokers. So they would talk about what ever interested them, and likely it was not pipes and tobacco. You're quite right. Even at pipe clubs, discussion may begin with tobacco and pipes. However, as we all know, it doesn't usually end there. Sometimes this is good and sometimes this is bad. |
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Post by sperrytops on Apr 3, 2019 14:27:14 GMT -5
My dad smoked pipes and cigars. To his generation it was something you did while playing cards or drinking and talking politics. He never did it for itself.
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Post by Dramatwist on Apr 3, 2019 14:32:07 GMT -5
"The past is another country; they do things differently there."
I believe the reason that we gather in groups and discuss pipes and tobacco is that there are so few of us. In our father's or grandfather's days, it was a common thing. Not so now.
Simple as that.
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Post by blackmouth210 on Apr 3, 2019 15:17:22 GMT -5
Thing is, I don't think smoking with Mark Twain, or even Grant, would be that much of a hoot. Judging from my experiences of my Dad's pipe smoking and that generation - I don't think folks back then talked about their smoking. You would get together with Mark Twain and it would be like getting together with Mark Twain. He would be who he would be, and smoking would be "no part of nuthin". My Dad never talked about it, and especially when he was smoking. It was just something he did. To him it would be as ridiculous as having a discussion about how one combs his hair what are the best techniques and the best combs etc. You just figure it out and do it. You don't talk about it. Today things are different, and talking about smoking seems is the next greatest thing to actually smoking. But that is a recent phenomena. Now, in writing that is different. Lots of folks over the years have written about smoking. And IMO its different because writing is a kind of private conversation, a sharing of brain space. Lots of things authors have written about which they would be reticent in conversation. Men would sit in large rooms, on sofas, drinking tea and coffee. They'd light their cigars and pipes. They'd share tobacco and conversation. They'd talk about politics, war, novels they'd read. Maybe medical science, if they were doctors. I sincerely doubt most of you do anything like this regularly these days. You're right. Most of us probably don't do anything like this these days. Frankly, they likely didn't do it much back then either. What you are describing is only a percentage of pipe and cigar smokers of yesteryear. You may even be describing the minority of pipe & cigar smokers of those times. I don't know. What I do know is that a smoker sitting in large rooms with a pipe/cigar while drinking tea and cofee was a luxury only the upper classes would have enjoyed. Lower classes smoked in their small homes, in pubs, on their porches, in the fields, and places those "big room" smokers wouldn't dare visit. And maybe some of these lower classes would talk war and politics, but it's more likely they would talk about issues closer to home (especially during peace time). And many couldn't even read or write their own name. So I doubt there was much novel reading and medical science conversation going on while having a pipe or cigar. Look at photos from 100-200 years ago and the stories accompanying them. You'll find something quite different from what's promoted by made-for-tv dramas situated entirely on lavish estates, oak paneled drawing rooms, huge city mansions, and the other haunts of the upper classes. |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Apr 3, 2019 15:32:03 GMT -5
Men would sit in large rooms, on sofas, drinking tea and coffee. They'd light their cigars and pipes. They'd share tobacco and conversation. They'd talk about politics, war, novels they'd read. Maybe medical science, if they were doctors. I sincerely doubt most of you do anything like this regularly these days. You're right. Most of us probably don't do anything like this these days. Frankly, they likely didn't do it much back then either. What you are describing is only a percentage of pipe and cigar smokers of yesteryear. You may even be describing the minority of pipe & cigar smokers of those times. I don't know. What I do know is that a smoker sitting in large rooms with a pipe/cigar while drinking tea and cofee was a luxury only the upper classes would have enjoyed. Lower classes smoked in their small homes, in pubs, on their porches, in the fields, and places those "big room" smokers wouldn't dare visit. And maybe some of these lower classes would talk war and politics, but it's more likely they would talk about issues closer to home (especially during peace time). And many couldn't even read or write their own name. So I doubt there was much novel reading and medical science conversation going on while having a pipe or cigar. Look at photos from 100-200 years ago and the stories accompanying them. You'll find something quite different from what's promoted by made-for-tv dramas situated entirely on lavish estates, oak paneled drawing rooms, huge city mansions, and the other haunts of the upper classes. Right. That is why I said who-what-where-when. I am thinking of the lifestyle of the novelists during that period, and the stories they wrote about. Only rich people and completely abnormal people (like me) bother writing stories. Sorry, I am an old book worm. |
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Post by jeffd on Apr 3, 2019 16:12:28 GMT -5
To put it in perspective, then as now there are many many more people that write stories, than smoke pipes.  |
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Post by trailboss on Apr 3, 2019 16:20:04 GMT -5
I was talking about the wit and humor of Mark Twain, and hearing the recollections of Grant about his military career, since they were both smokers, I would light up though...
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Slow Triathlete
New Member
Posts: 44
Favorite Pipe: Radice, Castello, Eltang, Michael Addis
Favorite Tobacco: McConnell's Scottish Cake, Sam Gawith St. James Flake
Location:
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Post by Slow Triathlete on Apr 3, 2019 16:23:52 GMT -5
My Dad is really big into the Ancestry stuff right now. So far no one famous has popped up. I don't have my hopes up.
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Post by trailboss on Apr 3, 2019 16:26:39 GMT -5
That sounds like the Arizona Pipe Club to me.
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Post by sperrytops on Apr 3, 2019 17:41:21 GMT -5
I must give you more respect, your highness. LMAO I think my genealogy would read as follows: peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer peasant farmer and so on me |
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Post by JimInks on Apr 23, 2019 11:42:19 GMT -5
I share the same birthday that Mark Twain does, except I was born more than a century later. Btw, these audio versions of Mark Twain newspaper articles are very interesting. Here's a link where you can listen and download for free: librivox.org/newspaper-articles-by-mark-twain/ |
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2019 15:16:33 GMT -5
I love genealogy. Thanks for sharing this stuff. Turns out that both Valerie and I are descended From Edward the First, King of England. (Incest!) You may remember him as portrayed by Patrick McGoohan in the movie "Braveheart." Yes, he was a real a**hole. He built a lot of cool castles, though... If you go back 900 years everyone is related. |
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