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Post by toshtego on Apr 23, 2021 20:07:37 GMT -5
Many members here achieved the position of "manager" in their careers.
They supervised, directed, governed and otherwise controlled employees (a common noun meaning fitulaters, fixtures, fornaces, fornicators and such) to some worthwhile end.
My question is, at what point in that career did you realize you were more of a zoo keeper than business manager? If you have not had that experience please ignore the question.
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Post by Plainsman on Apr 23, 2021 20:38:26 GMT -5
Very early. Like, maybe, the next day? 🤪
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Post by trailboss on Apr 23, 2021 20:52:18 GMT -5
I was offered the opportunity over the years, I just didn't want to be accountable for the boneheads under me, and get pressured by the boneheads above me. All I ever had to answer for was my own performance, and not to brag but my work has always been stellar that is all documented...that has served me well and the people above and worked with me, generally have great respect for me.
The others are people that micromange at the managerial level, or the bottom feeders in the operational side of the companies and that directed their paths. My last job I was offered a huge pay increase to head up the southwestern region, but while my immediate boss was a great guy, the boneheads above him and some of the boneheads I would have to ride herd on, it just wasn't worth it.
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Post by sperrytops on Apr 23, 2021 20:59:37 GMT -5
It took a while. But when I did I left the large corporate world and started my own company. No employees. Just two partners.
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Post by Gandalf on Apr 23, 2021 21:36:04 GMT -5
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Post by Darin on Apr 24, 2021 7:00:14 GMT -5
After 4 years, I just recently stepped down from a lead position. Herding cats, nailing jello to trees and being a micromanaged whipping post does not suit my personality.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Apr 24, 2021 7:43:20 GMT -5
I like being the guy that gets things done. The guy where you say, "I have this idea, and I need to make it happen". I don't want to climb any ladders. I'm fairly compensated, and my worth is reflected in how I'm treated. I have a good quality of life because of it. Sometimes I'd LIKE to manage others, but if they don't have the desire to put forth more than maintenance of effort under other managers, what would make me any different? So, COULD I be a manager? Sure. Do I want those headaches, and have to rely on other people to work at my spec? Heck no.
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Post by Scott W on Apr 24, 2021 13:23:27 GMT -5
At my last job, I had recommended solutions as to how we were running a particular portion of the business and even revamped the comp plan for those employees (me included). The CEO was impressed and said “good job, now you run it, you’re the new VP of the group”. Well, I was zoo keeper for about a week and I put my foot down and told everyone how we are going to run the business and if they didn’t do what they were supposed to, they would be gone. I had 7 people and fired two eventually. Some years later, the new president of the company (real asshole) said to me “your group is running so well at this point, we don’t need you to manage it, I can do it”. There went my management bonuses, etc and eventually after about 6 months, I quit. Years later, the CEO and I were having drinks and he asked me why I left him. I explained why and he just shook his head and apologized.
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briarbuck
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Post by briarbuck on Apr 24, 2021 13:34:47 GMT -5
2 word answer...Hearding cats
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Post by urbino on Apr 24, 2021 14:23:01 GMT -5
I'm a semi-manager. As the lead architect, I'm expected to make the big technical decisions, solve the hard technical problems, and lead our development team. But nobody reports to me and I have no authority over any of those developers. I'm not even asked for input on their annual reviews.
I don't have any desire to be anybody's manager. I'd suck at it. I knew very early on that it was basically managing egos and small children. But I don't love being given responsibility for things I don't have the authority to implement, either.
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Post by pepesdad1 on Apr 24, 2021 15:47:55 GMT -5
Was a Manager responsible to the FHP (Highway Patrol) mostly geared towards accident records and fatalities ran the Federal project called FARS which was the fatal accident reporting system for the Feds and DOT. (NHTSA). Had a 35 member crew that got 3-4 awards every year for excellence in providing data to the Feds and other Law Enforcement agencies. Was proud of our unit and the people working in it...got the awards because I gave the credit to the employees rather than myself and they enjoyed the notoriety as being the best in the nation. That was better than 20 years ago.
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Post by instymp on Apr 24, 2021 16:50:09 GMT -5
When we bought our company 36 years ago until we sold it 4 years ago.
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Post by terrapinflyer on Apr 24, 2021 20:52:43 GMT -5
Yup, took that "promotion" and almost immediately I knew I was now zookeeper with a collection of dysfunctional beasts. I had a lot of responsibility with virtually no authority to change things for the better. I left after five years with not much but a rather large alcohol habit.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 21:32:23 GMT -5
Many members here achieved the position of "manager" in their careers. They supervised, directed, governed and otherwise controlled employees (a common noun meaning fitulaters, fixtures, fornaces, fornicators and such) to some worthwhile end. My question is, at what point in that career did you realize you were more of a zoo keeper than business manager? If you have not had that experience please ignore the question. What a great question. My last management position was so horrible that I took early retirement at 54 and never worked for anyone again. It's bad enough to be in corporate America, but add long-distance virtual management and ... forget it. I'm my only employee now - the only downside to it is that I'm also my manager. |
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chasingembers
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Post by chasingembers on Apr 25, 2021 3:20:02 GMT -5
I've given up that position many times. Nothing rewarding about pushing a pencil and keeping my hands clean. I'm both head of my department and sole member of it now. A position created for me by the CEO after seeing me solving Rubik's puzzles.
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Post by jpberg on Apr 26, 2021 15:21:15 GMT -5
Managing a department is a daunting task, definitely not for everyone.
I’m in a tough industry with challenges coming daily from both the corporation and the bargaining unit.
Check your ego, open your ears, and have lots of patience. It’s amazing the amount of satisfaction that can be had by making things just a little better every day.
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Post by instymp on Apr 26, 2021 17:19:54 GMT -5
Many members here achieved the position of "manager" in their careers. They supervised, directed, governed and otherwise controlled employees (a common noun meaning fitulaters, fixtures, fornaces, fornicators and such) to some worthwhile end. My question is, at what point in that career did you realize you were more of a zoo keeper than business manager? If you have not had that experience please ignore the question. What a great question. My last management position was so horrible that I took early retirement at 54 and never worked for anyone again. It's bad enough to be in corporate America, but add long-distance virtual management and ... forget it. I'm my only employee now - the only downside to it is that I'm also my manager.Had a friend/vendor with an internation major that started working out of his home office, about 20 years ago.
Every morning he got up, went downstairs in white shirt & tie and slacks and opened at 8:30. Had more self discipline than me.
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Post by Plainsman on Apr 26, 2021 17:41:13 GMT -5
For the last years before my "official" retirement I ran a photography/design studio and a seasonal cultural travel business overseas. Both were one-man operations, although I made heavy use of local talent for the travel business. I resisted adding personnel, against all advice and despite occasional need. This may have been because these pre-retirement operations followed a ten-year stint of managing a staff of fifty. No more and never again! The last years of my "employment" were pleasant and stress-free beyond imagining. Trusting your guts almost always works.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2021 19:45:26 GMT -5
I was fine with managing a group of people in an office, but the last team I managed was located in Mexico, Brazil, Hungary and India - no one in the U.S. except me. There were a few logistics issues and the "zoo-keeper" analogy is very appropriate. The most difficult situation was when I had to assign a project lead for the employees in India - three men and a woman, and the woman was the obvious choice...to an American. I was able to get her in the position, but it was very tricky. All were happy in the end, except me when I was told I would have to physically re-locate to India within a year.
(It's good to see you Jon - I hope you're doing well. Please say "hello" to DW if you see him).
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Post by fadingdaylight on Apr 26, 2021 21:22:55 GMT -5
Leading others in the Army really was like zookeeping. I don't miss it at all. My current position is in management, but I only really manage myself and one other guy, so it isn't bad.
I actually went to school for business, focusing in leadership and management, though I hate actually trying to manage others. Personal accountability suits me fine, accountability for others, not so much.
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Post by jeffd on Apr 29, 2021 15:51:38 GMT -5
I have had every opportunity to be a manager, and by luck, or skill, I have managed to miss them all.
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Post by bonanzadriver on Apr 29, 2021 16:57:40 GMT -5
I'll try to keep this brief (I know, I know, fat chance huh? ;-P )
I was blessed, early on in my adult life, to have a fantastic mentor when I was a young enlisted man in the Navy. A retired One Star Marine General.
He taught me early on that almost anyone can act like a Boss / Manager. The truly successful ones learn how to be Leaders.
People quit working for "bosses/managers" all the time. Very few quit working for an effective Leader.
It's not an easy task, and I learned early that it was incumbent upon me to utilize every resource available to me, in order to create an environment that attracted, retained and developed good team players.
Over the decades I've been blessed to have worked for some really great companies, that gave me pretty much everything I needed to inspire and lead my troops. Sadly I've also worked for some real losers.
As I sit here typing this, smoking some Liz in my Dunhill Zulu, I'm in my office / mancave, looking up at the book shelves full of books by Covey, Maxwell, and others, all with salient thoughts on being a leader that people want to follow.
As to the Hearding Cats & Zoo keeping?, yeah, I've been there, but fortunately for me, I've always been able to either get folks "with the program", or hire someone that would.
One of my most often used lines , whenever I took over a new business or department, was "I'm in the business of Changing people, or changing People".
cheers
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Post by zambini on Apr 29, 2021 19:23:05 GMT -5
I've managed work crews of 70+ and professional teams of 8. So much easier to manage construction crews than office workers. I can't say that I enjoy being in lower management but the money is better than being on site...food's worse though.
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Post by johnlawitzke on Apr 30, 2021 10:45:31 GMT -5
I'm a semi-manager. As the lead architect, I'm expected to make the big technical decisions, solve the hard technical problems, and lead our development team. But nobody reports to me and I have no authority over any of those developers. I'm not even asked for input on their annual reviews. I don't have any desire to be anybody's manager. I'd suck at it. I knew very early on that it was basically managing egos and small children. But I don't love being given responsibility for things I don't have the authority to implement, either. Agreed, a technical leadership position is much more fun than being an administrative manager. I spent some time as a people manager early in my career. It really sucked. The years that I spent after that as a technical lead were much more fun. I could focus on the interesting work and direct the technical efforts without having to deal with any of the administrative aspects. For the past several years, I have been a product manager. It's a whole different type of management. It's more fun managing a product than it is people. |
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Post by trailboss on Apr 30, 2021 22:57:01 GMT -5
Kind of funny.
The operations manager pulled me aside for a chat today and hinted that he is looking to replace my boss.
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Post by jeffd on May 4, 2021 12:57:44 GMT -5
I do appreciate a good manager. With a good manager, I can do my job better.
Some (many) managers are not much more than a six year old in the back seat, kicking the back of your seat, asking "are we there yet? are we there yet?"
But believe me, engineers need managers. Just watch that video with the flying lawnmower. It just shows what a bunch of unmanaged engineers can do. I bet their assignment was to improve the lawnmower, perhaps make it semi-autonomous so it could learn and navigate the lawn and get er done on its own. But without a manager, the engineers said, "wouldn't it be cool if..." and then "yea, how could we do that" and soon enough, the whole week is gone.
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Post by jay on May 4, 2021 13:47:38 GMT -5
When I realized I was a much better lawyer than a business, I closed my practice and went to work for other people. It's been a lot of years since I've been a "manager" in the civilian sector. In the Guard, however, I feel much like the Centurian talking with Jesus...I am a man in authority over others. I say to one "go here" and he goeth, and to another "go there" and he goeth.
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Post by bigwoolie on May 4, 2021 14:09:33 GMT -5
I’ve been in management, and was terrible at it. My only redeeming grace was that I realized I was terrible at it. I’m very black-and-white, and not known for having a deep well of patience. I do my job without someone holding my hand and patting me on the head like a happy 6 year old, I expected those under me to be the same way. They rarely were. So I gave it up to those better qualified.
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Post by terrapinflyer on May 4, 2021 15:17:35 GMT -5
I do appreciate a good manager. With a good manager, I can do my job better. Some (many) managers are not much more than a six year old in the back seat, kicking the back of your seat, asking "are we there yet? are we there yet?" But believe me, engineers need managers. Just watch that video with the flying lawnmower. It just shows what a bunch of unmanaged engineers can do. I bet their assignment was to improve the lawnmower, perhaps make it semi-autonomous so it could learn and navigate the lawn and get er done on its own. But without a manager, the engineers said, "wouldn't it be cool if..." and then "yea, how could we do that" and soon enough, the whole week is gone. Maybe the task was to create a stealth suburban assault drone. |
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Post by taiguy66 on May 4, 2021 15:31:56 GMT -5
Being a retired Senior Army Officer that’s a tough question. The vast majority of my career I’ve been fortunate to work with very capable, professional men and women. My biggest “eye opening “ moment came when I was tasked to be a SSO for a UN Peacekeeping Mission and had to rely on members from non Western nations. Completely different work ethic then I’m accustomed to.
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