Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 26, 2021 12:56:40 GMT -5
Last evening my wife and I were discussing future planning, our upcoming second child, and life in general. I've been unhappy with work for quite sometime. My job keeps me from home long hours and I work in an extremely stressful field. My wife has brought up that she thinks I am unhappy with my career and not doing anything creatively. Shes right on both counts. Mostly though, I would like to just be able to spend more time at home with my kids.
During our conversation she said that she thought I ought to network more. In my industry this is a little tough, networking is done mostly at drinking events and bars, however, I am sober. Networking is a little more difficult as I also have few friends, a situation I found myself in when I entered sobriety. She suggested I look into a social club, like the Masons or some other fraternal order. I have a grandfather who was a Mason and so was one of my wifes grandfathers.
I am 40 years old and this is my second career. I've been doing upper level management or management director positions for almost 20 years, I have no college degree and have banked solely on my experience and silver tongue. I feel my lack of education is what is keeping my in a job where I am unhappy. My wife feels that I am just not branching out, unfortunately after work each day I am exhausted both from the work and from the very long drive in and out of work. I've been employed with only two companies in the last 20 years, further compounding my difficulties in networking.
Any advice or guidance would be welcome.
|
|
|
|
Post by Plainsman on Jul 26, 2021 13:05:18 GMT -5
Try Linked In. (Sorry— not sure of the URL. Should be easy to find.)
|
|
Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 26, 2021 13:10:22 GMT -5
Try Linked In. (Sorry— not sure of the URL. Should be easy to find.) I have a LinkedIn acct. It hasn’t really done anything for me. I’m not much of a social media guy. |
|
|
|
Post by Plainsman on Jul 26, 2021 13:16:04 GMT -5
Sorry. Wish I could help. Lots of folks here in different fields. If you felt like sharing it, it might be more helpful if you shared your area of expertise. Just an idea...
|
|
Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 26, 2021 13:41:33 GMT -5
Sorry. Wish I could help. Lots of folks here in different fields. If you felt like sharing it, it might be more helpful if you shared your area of expertise. Just an idea... I work in construction management. I am a program manager and manage multiple $10-50m construction projects. I’m sure that these skills can translate to other areas, as managing people and money is all the same, just different means and methods. |
|
|
|
Post by Ronv69 on Jul 26, 2021 14:07:06 GMT -5
I second the Masons. I was invited about 40 years ago but I just couldn't find the time. A serious regret. Also the Lion's Club. A service organization that does great things.
|
|
|
|
Post by trailboss on Jul 26, 2021 18:44:18 GMT -5
You definitely need to network then, it is amazing how many jobs out there that require a college degree...even then, they pay chump change.
Sadly, most jobs require an online application without hinting to the applicant what the job would pay.
It might be a worthwhile endeavor to consult a headhunter to thread the needle of a management job without a degree.
|
|
Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 26, 2021 18:57:51 GMT -5
You definitely need to network then, it is amazing how many jobs out there that require a college degree...even then, they pay chump change. Sadly, most jobs require an online application without hinting to the applicant what the job would pay. It might be a worthwhile endeavor to consult a headhunter to thread the needle of a management job without a degree. It’s wild, I had been told my entire youth that loyalty and longevity in a position was gold. Now people just plain don’t care, it’s a little sad  |
|
|
|
Post by darktater on Jul 26, 2021 19:03:04 GMT -5
I would suggest making yourself build your LinkedIn profile. Not so much posting, or anything like that. Tweak your 'resume' in LinkedIn, the go update it every couple of weeks. This doesn't have to be any material change, but it will bump you up in search results. I've found several jobs via LI, and even though I now have zero interest in finding a new job, I'm contacted by recruiter several times a week (and I haven't touched my resume in nearly 4 years.
Best of luck
|
|
|
|
Post by trailboss on Jul 26, 2021 19:08:23 GMT -5
My brother was the senior engineer for a silicon valley firm, and ran circles around the guys that had college degrees.
Bill gates was a college dropout, but when a buddy of mine that is a genius without a degree applied for a job, he was given the bums rush to the door at Microsoft. It all worked out for him though, he just filed for patents on his own creations and sold the products to places like that.
He is now very, very rich.
|
|
|
|
Post by urbino on Jul 26, 2021 19:53:45 GMT -5
I understand your problem, being not much of a networker, myself. (By which I mean a total non-networker.) I'm fortunate enough, though, to be content in my position at the company I'm with, and I remind myself a few times a week how fortunate that is.
Are there any local professional meetings for what you do? In my world, for example, there are various "user groups" like the Oracle Users Group, etc. They generally meet during business hours, which makes booze off-limits.
|
|
|
|
Post by pepesdad1 on Jul 26, 2021 20:22:24 GMT -5
"It might be a worthwhile endeavor to consult a headhunter to thread the needle of a management job without a degree."
This is the sad truth...and many folks with degrees that mean nothing in the real world. Headhunter is the best recommendation I could give you. The companies that they have touched...usually they will take the word of the person making the inquiry if they trust their past recommendations. Assuming the headhunter has good contacts..
|
|
|
|
Post by fadingdaylight on Jul 26, 2021 21:08:34 GMT -5
You definitely need to network then, it is amazing how many jobs out there that require a college degree...even then, they pay chump change. Sadly, most jobs require an online application without hinting to the applicant what the job would pay. It might be a worthwhile endeavor to consult a headhunter to thread the needle of a management job without a degree. It’s wild, I had been told my entire youth that loyalty and longevity in a position was gold. Now people just plain don’t care, it’s a little sad Yep, and it used to be "if you show up on time, work your hours, and give it your best". Now, that isn't good enough either. Volunteer your free time, work extra without pay, show up for bs events and mingle with drunks... Sorry guys, I'll take the hermits path... |
|
|
|
Post by Plainsman on Jul 26, 2021 21:41:37 GMT -5
I realize my comment is worth nothing, but... I have degrees up the butt and if I were running a construction company I wouldn't give a damn about a guy's degrees. "What have you done and what can you do?" is the question I would be asking. The smartest guy I ever knew was a self-educated eighth-grade dropout and the overall dumbest was a guy with two Ph.Ds. Go figger.
|
|
Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 26, 2021 22:55:17 GMT -5
I understand your problem, being not much of a networker, myself. (By which I mean a total non-networker.) I'm fortunate enough, though, to be content in my position at the company I'm with, and I remind myself a few times a week how fortunate that is. Are there any local professional meetings for what you do? In my world, for example, there are various "user groups" like the Oracle Users Group, etc. They generally meet during business hours, which makes booze off-limits. Nothing that isn’t an industry night at a bar tbh. |
|
Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 26, 2021 22:58:13 GMT -5
I realize my comment is worth nothing, but... I have degrees up the butt and if I were running a construction company I wouldn't give a damn about a guy's degrees. "What have you done and what can you do?" is the question I would be asking. The smartest guy I ever knew was a self-educated eighth-grade dropout and the overall dumbest was a guy with two Ph.Ds. Go figger. That means a lot thanks bro. |
|
|
|
Post by urbino on Jul 27, 2021 1:40:52 GMT -5
I understand your problem, being not much of a networker, myself. (By which I mean a total non-networker.) I'm fortunate enough, though, to be content in my position at the company I'm with, and I remind myself a few times a week how fortunate that is. Are there any local professional meetings for what you do? In my world, for example, there are various "user groups" like the Oracle Users Group, etc. They generally meet during business hours, which makes booze off-limits. Nothing that isn’t an industry night at a bar tbh. I guess I could see that being the case in that business. FWIW, I have a degree, but it has nothing to do with computer science, and as a person now in a position where I evaluate resumes and sit in on interviews, I have very little interest in who's got what degree. If you have no work experience, then yes, it's meaningful. It says you're capable of taking on something large and completing it. But once somebody's got 4 or 5 years experience, that's where 90% of my interest is. The only thing that tells me less than a college degree is a professional certification. |
|
|
|
Post by Plainsman on Jul 27, 2021 8:22:33 GMT -5
People without “degrees” built this country. The people WITH them came along and got us in the mess we are currently in. (Not to worry— I am done on this subject. I just feel really strongly about it.)
|
|
Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 27, 2021 9:19:58 GMT -5
Nothing that isn’t an industry night at a bar tbh. I guess I could see that being the case in that business. FWIW, I have a degree, but it has nothing to do with computer science, and as a person now in a position where I evaluate resumes and sit in on interviews, I have very little interest in who's got what degree. If you have no work experience, then yes, it's meaningful. It says you're capable of taking on something large and completing it. But once somebody's got 4 or 5 years experience, that's where 90% of my interest is. The only thing that tells me less than a college degree is a professional certification. Thanks for that, it really eases me a bit while im exploring my options. |
|
|
|
Post by Gypo on Jul 27, 2021 10:08:06 GMT -5
People without “degrees” built this country. The people WITH them came along and got us in the mess we are currently in. (Not to worry— I am done on this subject. I just feel really strongly about it.) I deal with people with degrees at work. I can not post how I really feel about them but think much of our education system is making people dumber not smarter. |
|
|
|
Post by sperrytops on Jul 27, 2021 10:42:59 GMT -5
I've been retired for a few years so take my input with a grain of salt. My career job changes have all been referrals through my network, and all led to a higher position, more money and more stress. I only got happy when I left working for the corporate world and started my own consulting business. However, my networks were always informal. Friends and acquaintances. I understand from my kids today that their is a huge pent up demand for skilled labor of all kinds. Many companies can't fill the open positions hey have. If you are going to look I guess this is a pretty good time to do it. Recruiters can be helpful, but my understanding is employers usually don't want to pay the recruiter fees except for higher level management positions. So I guess if you go to a recruiter, tell them you want a senior management position. Best of luck with it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ronv69 on Jul 27, 2021 11:12:07 GMT -5
I was in IT for 30 years and I can't begin to tell you what we thought about people with computer science degrees. 👎👎👎
I dropped out of college when I won the draft lottery because I was a VP with an expense account. That ended, but I have always out earned 90% of college grads.
My best jobs came through contacts with friends. My experience with Robert Half would not lead me to recommend a headhunter. What do you want to do?
|
|
Hand of Glory
Junior Member
Posts: 328
Favorite Pipe: Chacom Champs Elysees (862)
Favorite Tobacco: H&H Blackhouse
Location:
|
Post by Hand of Glory on Jul 27, 2021 12:37:02 GMT -5
I was in IT for 30 years and I can't begin to tell you what we thought about people with computer science degrees. 👎👎👎 I dropped out of college when I won the draft lottery because I was a VP with an expense account. That ended, but I have always out earned 90% of college grads. My best jobs came through contacts with friends. My experience with Robert Half would not lead me to recommend a headhunter. What do you want to do? TBH im not 100% quite sure, its why i'm looking to hear about how other network. My prior career was in upper level management of an IT firm, and my current role is upper level management of construction projects and bonds. I really just want to get away from the stress of public works and construction in general. I've been fine with my career choices, but with a second kid o nthe way, I really want to find something that allows me a little more freedom and less stress. Perhaps im searching for a grail that doesnt exist though. |
|
|
|
Post by trailboss on Jul 27, 2021 13:52:45 GMT -5
A well written resume makes all the difference. I tried my own way and it was crickets, then my daughter with an HR background who has started a resume writing service took me on and the floodgates opened. At my current job since last December, but I have not been happy here.
Sent out my resume to a great company with more money, better benefits, and a very attractive PTO package. I am tendering my resignation here at the end of the day.
My review at her site, even though she is my daughter, that had no bearing on what I expressed, it is just the truth.
“ A great performer when my own resume was found wanting.
As a blue collar worker in the transportation industry, I worked comfortably over decades making top pay in a union environment. The time came when I decided to retire, collect my pension and enjoy the fruits of my labor. Although I retired from the union, I wanted to make money to further feather the retirement nest, since I still have many good years to contribute to the workforce.
I wrote my own resume, with a stellar safety record, millions of miles driving various combinations of rigs without a chargeable accident. Letters of recommendation that praised my punctuality, professionalism, commitment to safety were attached to my resume. The end result was after applying to many jobs, I got no response. I figured that it was my age working against me.
I decided to seek another avenue and contacted resume writer shop where there was a fresh look by people with an HR background that knows what potential employers are looking for. The response was remarkable, and it only makes sense that you need to speak the current language that catches the interest of recruiters to move yourself to the front of the pack.
I have no regrets, the cost was not really a factor and landed me a premiere job that was a perfect fit for where I am at in life.
Charles A.
Gilbert, Arizona”
|
|
|
|
Post by Scott W on Jul 27, 2021 17:01:16 GMT -5
Last evening my wife and I were discussing future planning, our upcoming second child, and life in general. I've been unhappy with work for quite sometime. My job keeps me from home long hours and I work in an extremely stressful field. My wife has brought up that she thinks I am unhappy with my career and not doing anything creatively. Shes right on both counts. Mostly though, I would like to just be able to spend more time at home with my kids. During our conversation she said that she thought I ought to network more. In my industry this is a little tough, networking is done mostly at drinking events and bars, however, I am sober. Networking is a little more difficult as I also have few friends, a situation I found myself in when I entered sobriety. She suggested I look into a social club, like the Masons or some other fraternal order. I have a grandfather who was a Mason and so was one of my wifes grandfathers. I am 40 years old and this is my second career. I've been doing upper level management or management director positions for almost 20 years, I have no college degree and have banked solely on my experience and silver tongue. I feel my lack of education is what is keeping my in a job where I am unhappy. My wife feels that I am just not branching out, unfortunately after work each day I am exhausted both from the work and from the very long drive in and out of work. I've been employed with only two companies in the last 20 years, further compounding my difficulties in networking. Any advice or guidance would be welcome. I’ve used LinkedIn very successfully for years now. I had a friend lose his job on Friday and asked me if I wouldn’t mind reaching out to my network. Within a day I had him 5 interviews with different recruiters and he’s feeling a bit better about things. I like it and use it but YMMV |
|
|
|
Post by trailboss on Jul 27, 2021 17:51:49 GMT -5
Linked in is a good resource. If you sign up for the full introductory plan it is free...$60.00 or so after the honeymoon.
If you are on the full plan and put yourself out there looking for work, they really do deliver and my daughter says they will really give you visibility. They have some great tutorials also.
I have been alerted to a lot of jobs once I created an account (since I am not looking I reverted back to the free option)
|
|
|
|
Post by urbino on Jul 27, 2021 18:08:00 GMT -5
A well written resume makes all the difference. I tried my own way and it was crickets, then my daughter with an HR background who has started a resume writing service took me on and the floodgates opened. At my current job since last December, but I have not been happy here. Sent out my resume to a great company with more money, better benefits, and a very attractive PTO package. I am tendering my resignation here at the end of the day. My review at her site, even though she is my daughter, that had no bearing on what I expressed, it is just the truth. “ A great performer when my own resume was found wanting. As a blue collar worker in the transportation industry, I worked comfortably over decades making top pay in a union environment. The time came when I decided to retire, collect my pension and enjoy the fruits of my labor. Although I retired from the union, I wanted to make money to further feather the retirement nest, since I still have many good years to contribute to the workforce. I wrote my own resume, with a stellar safety record, millions of miles driving various combinations of rigs without a chargeable accident. Letters of recommendation that praised my punctuality, professionalism, commitment to safety were attached to my resume. The end result was after applying to many jobs, I got no response. I figured that it was my age working against me. I decided to seek another avenue and contacted resume writer shop where there was a fresh look by people with an HR background that knows what potential employers are looking for. The response was remarkable, and it only makes sense that you need to speak the current language that catches the interest of recruiters to move yourself to the front of the pack. I have no regrets, the cost was not really a factor and landed me a premiere job that was a perfect fit for where I am at in life. Charles A. Gilbert, Arizona” Dear lord, don't get me started on resumes. Apparently nobody teaches how to write one anymore. The ones I get are all 3-9 (9!) pages of single-spaced, ungrammatical, not infrequently misspelled bullet points. Just page after page of full-page blocks of text. It's like reading the lease on my apartment. |
|
|
|
Post by trailboss on Jul 27, 2021 18:19:45 GMT -5
Writing is like any other skill, use it or lose it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gypo on Jul 27, 2021 18:24:27 GMT -5
Writing is like any other skill, use it or lose it. Charlie I never had it. This is my Social Club. |
|
|
|
Post by urbino on Jul 27, 2021 18:39:08 GMT -5
Writing is like any other skill, use it or lose it. I'm not sure this really counts as a writing skill. Resumes are a unique form. It's knowing what to leave out, and how to format what you put in. The resumes I get just shovel everything in, and treat it all as equally [un]important. They're a nightmare to read. |
|
