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Post by trailboss on Aug 7, 2021 20:27:36 GMT -5
My close buddy, a former Chicago cop and now a homicide detective in a nearby city says the same thing.
“ I was in fear of my life, and I needed to stop the threat.” Is all you should say.
And if possible, be the first to call 911 and say the same thing. The system is keyed on the first one to call is the victim.
After that “Officer, like when you are involved in a shooting, my next conversation needs to be with counsel.”
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Post by oldcajun123 on Aug 7, 2021 22:17:10 GMT -5
I didn’t have a gun but I had a 52 Buick Roadmaster, wife and I were at the mall in the 70s, about 6 assorted male and female hood rats single file, crossed in single file in front of me I stopped they were crossing, the last hood rat started very slow walking in front of me. I put that Buick in Super and hit him , boom he went over the hood, car top and you never seen someone move so fast to get away. I can be just so much nice.
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Post by oldcajun123 on Aug 7, 2021 22:18:25 GMT -5
Last I saw of him was asses and elbows,
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Post by toshtego on Aug 8, 2021 11:01:35 GMT -5
"I was in fear for my life. I intend to cooperate fully, after my attorney is present." All you should ever say to the police until your lawyer comes on the scene. In such a situation the police aren't necessarily your enemy, but they aren't your friends either. Life would be great with Perry Mason on retainer. For many us that just is not possible. We have so few criminal defense attorneys in this area there is a waiting list for representation and the fees are incredible. The notion of a court appointed lawyer is a pleasant one which seldom amounts to more than a plea barging arrangement. If you are not guilty, you had better be rich or you are going to prison. This is one of the reasons my guns are locked in sturdy safes.
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Post by trailboss on Aug 8, 2021 11:14:13 GMT -5
Prepaid legal services through the USCCA, or the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network that Massad is on the board of is not a bad Idea for a concealed carrier.
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Post by rdpipes on Aug 8, 2021 17:03:03 GMT -5
On it's own a gun won't save your life and any gun that is in mechanically good order and LOADED will only save your life if your really willing to pull the trigger. Not everyone is prepared to do so though. I think that’s the point of why Tom Gresham titled the article that way, Ron! 😉 Sorry Charlie, I didn't read the beginning of the thread, I thought it was just a question put out there.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 8, 2021 21:09:07 GMT -5
Prepaid legal services through the USCCA, or the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network that Massad is on the board of is not a bad Idea for a concealed carrier. I am curious to know how that would work in Taos? How long does it take for them to get an attorney on the scene? How long will out law officers wait before applying persuasion?
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Post by trailboss on Aug 8, 2021 21:33:45 GMT -5
Prepaid legal services through the USCCA, or the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network that Massad is on the board of is not a bad Idea for a concealed carrier. I am curious to know how that would work in Taos? How long does it take for them to get an attorney on the scene? How long will out law officers wait before applying persuasion? The wife and I use armedcitizensnetwork.org/Marty Hayes is rock solid, and he is surrounded by great people. I know it sounds weak, but I have a friend, who has a friend that had to use their services. It turned out well and Massad Ayoob turned up as the expert witness and won the day. The USCCA has a huge following, and maybe a larger network? It would be worthwhile to email them both and find out which would be the best course to go if needed.
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Post by bonanzadriver on Aug 8, 2021 22:01:08 GMT -5
Typically when a thread titled something like this is posted, there are comments made by some about the caliber or model of the trusty "Roscoe" they will employ when the chips are down. I often get the impression that the article was never read, and the title received a response based on a person's personal views.Tom Gresham has poured his life into the gun culture, his dad was Grits Gresham that was a towering figure in the journalist hunting world. Tom's mom was a crack shot that would put most men to shame. Tom has devoted his life to the 2nd amendment and the right to defend oneself. He has spent his life immersed with training and interviewing special operators that have faced serious assignments and have lived to see another day. Numerous LEO's that have been tried by fire...Jim Cirillo and Robert Stasch are just a couple of people he counts as close friends. I encourage you to read it and consider it, but I think that as always, Tom is spot on. www.guntalk.com/post/which-gun-will-save-your-lifeGreat article Charlie, thanks for postin. Not to be a "name dropper", but I will admit that Tom is a friend of mine. Great to see an article of his posted here. Fantastic guy for sure.
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Post by trailboss on Aug 8, 2021 22:13:47 GMT -5
I cannot count him as a friend, more of an acquaintance in busy environments, I doubt he would recognize me other than online emails.
Rock solid guy, I have followed him for years...the real deal.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 8, 2021 22:25:06 GMT -5
I read his father's articles for years. I don't know him at all.
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Post by bonanzadriver on Aug 8, 2021 22:39:41 GMT -5
I read his father's articles for years. I don't know him at all. His dad was Grits Gresham. Loved him, never met him though.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 10:03:27 GMT -5
I am curious to know how that would work in Taos? How long does it take for them to get an attorney on the scene? How long will out law officers wait before applying persuasion? The wife and I use armedcitizensnetwork.org/Marty Hayes is rock solid, and he is surrounded by great people. I know it sounds weak, but I have a friend, who has a friend that had to use their services. It turned out well and Massad Ayoob turned up as the expert witness and won the day. The USCCA has a huge following, and maybe a larger network? It would be worthwhile to email them both and find out which would be the best course to go if needed. I might look into it. I do not carry a concealed weapon any more. One never knows what the future will bring. PS. Visited their website and did not find answers to my questions. So, I emailed those questions and look forward to a response. I see the legal fees ARE NOT covered. Just an initial deposit to retain counsel. Legal costs will vary with the complexity of the case, I assume. I like that they offer some grant assistance in the follow up Civil Case, aka, the wrongful death law suit which always follows the criminal case.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 9, 2021 11:23:12 GMT -5
The wife and I use armedcitizensnetwork.org/Marty Hayes is rock solid, and he is surrounded by great people. I know it sounds weak, but I have a friend, who has a friend that had to use their services. It turned out well and Massad Ayoob turned up as the expert witness and won the day. The USCCA has a huge following, and maybe a larger network? It would be worthwhile to email them both and find out which would be the best course to go if needed. I might look into it. I do not carry a concealed weapon any more. One never knows what the future will bring. PS. Visited their website and did not find answers to my questions. So, I emailed those questions and look forward to a response. I see the legal fees ARE NOT covered. Just an initial deposit to retain counsel. Legal costs will vary with the complexity of the case, I assume. I like that they offer some grant assistance in the follow up Civil Case, aka, the wrongful death law suit which always follows the criminal case. In your case, where you live and work, I would open carry the biggest hogleg I could.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 11:24:09 GMT -5
They did respond and acknowledged there is little they can do for someone in a remote area such as where I am. They said I am on my own in finding representation. That is exactly the problem here. There are so few criminal defense attorneys available, accused people often agree to a plea deal.
"Thank you for your question about the Network's assistance to members after self defense. At present, the Network's nearest affiliated attorneys have their practices in Albuquerque, so it is important to understand that the Network has never limited members to using our affiliated attorneys for representation after self defense. We pay the attorney that the member designates, so a member in a remote, low-population area like Taos, where we have not yet met and affiliated with attorneys, should take advantage of that option and get to know a local law firm on their own."
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 9, 2021 11:26:00 GMT -5
They did respond and acknowledged there is little they can do for someone in a remote area such as where I am. They said I am on my own in finding representation. That is exactly the problem here. There are so few criminal defense attorneys available, accused people often agree to a plea deal. "Thank you for your question about the Network's assistance to members after self defense. At present, the Network's nearest affiliated attorneys have their practices in Albuquerque, so it is important to understand that the Network has never limited members to using our affiliated attorneys for representation after self defense. We pay the attorney that the member designates, so a member in a remote, low-population area like Taos, where we have not yet met and affiliated with attorneys, should take advantage of that option and get to know a local law firm on their own."There are plenty of other companies to try. Plus, where are you likely to be going to court? Bound to be lawyers there.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 11:29:13 GMT -5
I might look into it. I do not carry a concealed weapon any more. One never knows what the future will bring. PS. Visited their website and did not find answers to my questions. So, I emailed those questions and look forward to a response. I see the legal fees ARE NOT covered. Just an initial deposit to retain counsel. Legal costs will vary with the complexity of the case, I assume. I like that they offer some grant assistance in the follow up Civil Case, aka, the wrongful death law suit which always follows the criminal case. In your case, where you live and work, I would open carry the biggest hogleg I could. I see little advantage in that. Newcomers often do just that and it does not improve their relationships locally. Sneaky crimes of burglary and stock thieving are the main offenses. The chances of a confrontational crime with a local are low. We do not get many outsiders trying to make trouble here. Mostly visitors passing through are scared to death they will be dragged into a shed and eaten or some such. Hollywood has seldom depicted modern rural people with respect.
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Post by Plainsman on Aug 9, 2021 11:33:26 GMT -5
USCCA covers legal fees.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 11:33:53 GMT -5
They did respond and acknowledged there is little they can do for someone in a remote area such as where I am. They said I am on my own in finding representation. That is exactly the problem here. There are so few criminal defense attorneys available, accused people often agree to a plea deal. "Thank you for your question about the Network's assistance to members after self defense. At present, the Network's nearest affiliated attorneys have their practices in Albuquerque, so it is important to understand that the Network has never limited members to using our affiliated attorneys for representation after self defense. We pay the attorney that the member designates, so a member in a remote, low-population area like Taos, where we have not yet met and affiliated with attorneys, should take advantage of that option and get to know a local law firm on their own."There are plenty of other companies to try. Plus, where are you likely to be going to court? Bound to be lawyers there. That is my entire point. There are so few criminal lawyers here representation is difficult to arrange. Long waiting lists and very high legal fees. An accused sits in jail for weeks waiting for a lawyer unless well connected and wealthy. The jail is famous for its "confessions". People here routinely loose their homes and farms to lawyers in lieu of the fees. Take my advice, do not get involved in a shooting here.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 11:37:58 GMT -5
From reading their website, what is clear is they pay an initial deposit, a retainer. I did not see anything about the bulk of the legal fees owing to the criminal attorney. I only looked at their general material and frequently asked questions. They sometimes offer some financial assistance on the civil law suit which usually follows. They will pay a deposit to the lawyer the member specifies. Finding that lawyer can be difficult in remote places. I suggest reading the contract detail closely.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 12:29:00 GMT -5
I see that Taos has exactly two, two criminal representation lawyers. No wonder accused person languish in jail.
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Post by Plainsman on Aug 9, 2021 14:46:48 GMT -5
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 18:03:14 GMT -5
Considering how modest their fees are, it certainly is worth having them in one's own corner. When the chips are in the fire and the fat is down, the cops looking at you like a Blue Plate Special in a two bit Diner, all the help one can muster is still not enough.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 9, 2021 19:09:24 GMT -5
As long as we're in our county I'm not too worried. If I travel out of the area I probably need to look at some insurance.
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Post by Plainsman on Aug 9, 2021 19:17:29 GMT -5
As long as we're in our county I'm not too worried. If I travel out of the area I probably need to look at some insurance. I feel pretty much the same way. Or used to. Between copy-cats, outsiders, and “disturbed teens” you can never really be sure all is well where you are anymore. Had lunch at the café today and there were quite a few Sturgis bikers there. I kept my distance, but makes ya think. That, of course, has nothing to do with overt violence. Seemed like nice fellers. Not all who pass thru are.
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Post by toshtego on Aug 9, 2021 19:41:09 GMT -5
As long as we're in our county I'm not too worried. If I travel out of the area I probably need to look at some insurance. there was a time when I felt that way. Then all the old experienced officers retired from both the Sheriff and the NM State Police. Replaced by youngsters who know little except what is written in a book. There was a time when an old timer like me was afforded respect and courtesy. Those days are gone. We are all nothing but suspects now. Show me the man and I will show you his crime kind of mentality.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 9, 2021 20:45:23 GMT -5
As long as we're in our county I'm not too worried. If I travel out of the area I probably need to look at some insurance. I feel pretty much the same way. Or used to. Between copy-cats, outsiders, and “disturbed teens” you can never really be sure all is well where you are anymore. Had lunch at the café today and there were quite a few Sturgis bikers there. I kept my distance, but makes ya think. That, of course, has nothing to do with overt violence. Seemed like nice fellers. Not all who pass thru are. I understand that they are all doctors, lawyers and such having their Halloween.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 9, 2021 20:47:19 GMT -5
As long as we're in our county I'm not too worried. If I travel out of the area I probably need to look at some insurance. there was a time when I felt that way. Then all the old experienced officers retired from both the Sheriff and the NM State Police. Replaced by youngsters who know little except what is written in a book. There was a time when an old timer like me was afforded respect and courtesy. Those days are gone. We are all nothing but suspects now. Show me the man and I will show you his crime kind of mentality. We go to the regular meet the police and DA get togetherness. They are a pretty nice bunch to the local citizens who are not meth-heads.
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Post by trailboss on Aug 9, 2021 23:11:44 GMT -5
It is a good idea to know the laws in the state you reside in knowing justification and how to approach a situation and thinking ahead of time on how you would respond to a threat. Massad Ayoob files are good to read as he chronicles how events go down, he analyzes what the intended victim did right, and what he or she could have done better. americanhandgunner.com/category/our-experts/ayoob-files/
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