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Post by Legend Lover on Oct 14, 2021 3:35:55 GMT -5
I think Charlie might have been referring to students and not to academicians. Maybe, but doesn't the same philosophy apply? Consensus has value, and challenging it based on feelings probably shouldn't get one very far. If you have fair questions rooted in evidence though, I've never met many educators who wouldn't take those questions seriously. I was always the kid in regular school and Sunday school who asked the inconvenient questions. In real school, it more than once caused deeper dives into material that ended up being really interesting. In Sunday school, it resulted in my parents being asked not to bring me anymore. It was really win/win. 😉 But yeah, the only attempt to force indoctrination I ever saw was in religion, not real world. I'm still that person and now I'm the minister. I would LOVE to have people in my church who are willing to chat through the difficult topics with me. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Oct 14, 2021 3:36:23 GMT -5
Also, I was lying in bed last night thinking about this. I woke up and my mind was racing and I was wondering if that counts.
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 14, 2021 9:21:44 GMT -5
To be fair, this is an oft-cited misunderstanding of the academic process. The reality is, the fastest way to become respected and "in demand" in academia is to overturn a widely-held position on something. The catch, of course, is that you must have solid evidence with which to defend your position. Peer review can be pretty ruthless in its exposure of process and methodology errors, broken logic etc. This is sort of the point. Certainly, the students that came to mind that I personally know are brilliant, and had facts on their side. The professors were ideologues wedded to their own philosophical worldview that had no desire to even consider other points of view. They are tenured, and have no reason to entertain any sort of challenge to what they demand others ascribe to if they want a passing grade. I agree with your approach, if that indeed is what is practiced, sadly oftimes it is not. The college graduates that I've worked with were mostly OK, except for the Computer Science majors who seem to have specialized in how to screw things up. The kids from church and my friends kids that have graduated have done very well without being indoctrinated. They give me hope. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 14, 2021 9:24:09 GMT -5
Maybe, but doesn't the same philosophy apply? Consensus has value, and challenging it based on feelings probably shouldn't get one very far. If you have fair questions rooted in evidence though, I've never met many educators who wouldn't take those questions seriously. I was always the kid in regular school and Sunday school who asked the inconvenient questions. In real school, it more than once caused deeper dives into material that ended up being really interesting. In Sunday school, it resulted in my parents being asked not to bring me anymore. It was really win/win. 😉 But yeah, the only attempt to force indoctrination I ever saw was in religion, not real world. I'm still that person and now I'm the minister. I would LOVE to have people in my church who are willing to chat through the difficult topics with me. Jacob wrestled with God and they had a great relationship. God's favorite people are the ones who argued with him. They truly interacted with him. |
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Post by don on Oct 14, 2021 12:37:43 GMT -5
Did a lot of thinking today. No happy thoughts. Thought about how nice it would be to retire, but can’t afford to yet. I was happier when I started a fire in the chiminea tonight and just enjoyed staring into the coals. Little thought occurred beyond enjoying the colors, smells and the changing coals. Relaxing. Had more London Dock. Burning through that tin, but it was really packed in there. I think we could all use a lot more sitting around a fire and "letting the mind roll on." I think you are right about that, Bob. I am overdue for a good campfire in the woods. It’s been so dry the past few years because of drought conditions. No fires allowed in the mountains, every time we are up there. Maybe a lake camping trip on the prairie can suffice. |
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Post by daveinlax on Oct 14, 2021 13:53:39 GMT -5
Critical thinking skills are not encouraged in academia, quite the opposite, indoctrination rules the day. Those that agree to it are rewarded, those that challenge it are often persecuted. To be fair, this is an oft-cited misunderstanding of the academic process. The reality is, the fastest way to become respected and "in demand" in academia is to overturn a widely-held position on something. The catch, of course, is that you must have solid evidence with which to defend your position. Peer review can be pretty ruthless in its exposure of process and methodology errors, broken logic etc. This is sort of the point. We have close friends who teach in high school and college. They get frustrated with parents and students who want to endlessly take time out of the curriculum to debate what ever talking points and theories they’ve been spoon fed lately on right wing talk radio, web sites and tv.  |
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Post by peteguy on Oct 14, 2021 13:58:28 GMT -5
I know someone who has an IQ of 147. They hate it. They try to "Ozzy" it every chance they get. They were born with it. It has caused them a life of anxiety and feeling different than everyone else.
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Post by daveinlax on Oct 14, 2021 14:03:59 GMT -5
Maybe, but doesn't the same philosophy apply? Consensus has value, and challenging it based on feelings probably shouldn't get one very far. If you have fair questions rooted in evidence though, I've never met many educators who wouldn't take those questions seriously. I was always the kid in regular school and Sunday school who asked the inconvenient questions. In real school, it more than once caused deeper dives into material that ended up being really interesting. In Sunday school, it resulted in my parents being asked not to bring me anymore. It was really win/win. 😉 But yeah, the only attempt to force indoctrination I ever saw was in religion, not real world. Maybe you should visit some contemporary universities. CA might be a good start, with many not far behind. (I contend this is not "political" but "educational.")LoL, it might have started innocently but this is after all The Patch, the grievance board. It always entertaining to see what’s the outrage of the day will be! |
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 14, 2021 14:13:56 GMT -5
Outrage? Physician, heal thyself.
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 14, 2021 17:02:02 GMT -5
Outrage? Physician, heal thyself. Amen. |
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Post by simnettpratt on Oct 14, 2021 20:38:29 GMT -5
That's not normal. It's not normal for a really strong guy to hate being strong and try to get weaker, because it makes him anxious and feel different.
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