joeman
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First Name: Joe
Favorite Pipe: Grabow Hillcrest
Favorite Tobacco: Sutliff Barbados Plantation
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Post by joeman on Jul 11, 2022 16:11:49 GMT -5
I've done pipe restoration / reburbishing for over 10 years...and have never heard this question. But leave it to my nephew...he's gotten into pipe collecting and restoring for most of a year, and his questions are non-stop (LOL). He asked if LED lights contribute to vulcanite oxidation...and I don't know the answer to that. Since leaving pipes out in the daylight (sun, lighting in the house, etc) contribute to oxidation...I would assume ongoing exposure to LED lights would also cause oxidation. But...has anyone here displayed pipes where only LED lighting was used...and have the vulcanite stems oxidized?
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 11, 2022 16:15:49 GMT -5
I've had my pipes under LEDs for years and they certainly don't oxidize as much as natural light. It's almost non-existent. I use warm color LEDs. I guess if you use a 5-6 color temperature LED it might make a lot of difference.
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Zach
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If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,359
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Jul 11, 2022 22:39:01 GMT -5
Long exposure to UV in direct sunlight is likely slightly aiding in oxidation, but oxidation itself comes from exposure to, oxygen. The oxygen level in the air is combining with sulfur and various elements in the vulcanized rubber to create that familiar yellowing of the stem. As far as I know you can keep your vulcanite stems in moderate daylight and keep them deep black, so long as they're coated in mineral, obsidian oil, or something like olive oil. Preventing the dry vulcanized rubber from air exposure. LEDs at least of the cheap lighting variety aren't emitting barely any lumens or any UV and shouldn't aid in oxidizing stems.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 11, 2022 23:38:43 GMT -5
I had a NOS pipe that had been in a window display. Only the top was brown, but it took me a couple of days to get it back to black.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 11, 2022 23:40:35 GMT -5
This is LED lighting.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2022 2:41:38 GMT -5
This is LED lighting. AWESOME pipe cabinet! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2022 2:48:07 GMT -5
Besides the impact of direct UV exposure, we have to consider the level of quality of the vulcanite/ebonite.
The lower the quality, the more sulfur there is, the more the stem will tend to oxidize. And the higher the quality, the less there is sulfur, the less it will tend to oxidize.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 12, 2022 8:31:48 GMT -5
This is LED lighting. AWESOME pipe cabinet! Thanks! This picture was before I found the other 2/3 of my pipes. |
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Post by sperrytops on Jul 12, 2022 9:41:20 GMT -5
Besides the impact of direct UV exposure, we have to consider the level of quality of the vulcanite/ebonite. The lower the quality, the more sulfur there is, the more the stem will tend to oxidize. And the higher the quality, the less there is sulfur, the less it will tend to oxidize. Good callout. Quite true. That's why Dunhill stems are known for their minimal oxidation and ease of stem cleaning. |
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,359
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Jul 12, 2022 11:24:31 GMT -5
I had a NOS pipe that had been in a window display. Only the top was brown, but it took me a couple of days to get it back to black. UV in sunlight definitely accelerates oxidation in hydrocarbons. It's still technically oxygen reaction that is causing the chromophores to yellow and then turn darker shades of brown/yellow/green when the hydrocarbon breaks down into aldehydes, oxide branches, and esters, etc. This is why I personally believe that if we tried an experiment of keeping vulcanite stems well oiled in obsidian oil but left in the sunlight, they'd actually stay pitch black.
And that's a really nice pipe cabinet you've got there, Ron.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 12, 2022 12:32:36 GMT -5
I had a NOS pipe that had been in a window display. Only the top was brown, but it took me a couple of days to get it back to black. UV in sunlight definitely accelerates oxidation in hydrocarbons. It's still technically oxygen reaction that is causing the chromophores to yellow and then turn darker shades of brown/yellow/green when the hydrocarbon breaks down into aldehydes, oxide branches, and esters, etc. This is why I personally believe that if we tried an experiment of keeping vulcanite stems well oiled in obsidian oil but left in the sunlight, they'd actually stay pitch black.
And that's a really nice pipe cabinet you've got there, Ron.
Thanks! I actually just put obsidian oil on a Butz Choquin this morning. I must add that I have had the pipe since 2013 and this is the first time I've polished the stem. It wasn't all that bad but this conversation inspired me. |
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,359
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Jul 12, 2022 12:47:10 GMT -5
I've been putting off polishing a good 20 stems for the entire summer, so I've got a light layer of obsidian oil on the majority of my vulcanite stems as they sit on racks and pipe bags while at rest. I bought new rotary buff wheels and add ons about 2-3 months ago and haven't opened them yet.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 12, 2022 13:50:13 GMT -5
I've been putting off polishing a good 20 stems for the entire summer, so I've got a light layer of obsidian oil on the majority of my vulcanite stems as they sit on racks and pipe bags while at rest. I bought new rotary buff wheels and add ons about 2-3 months ago and haven't opened them yet. I polish all of mine by hand, using paper towels and stem polish. If I polish 2 a week I would be done in a couple of months. Most of my Vulcanite stems aren't really oxidized much, and I have a lot of acrylic stems. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Jul 12, 2022 16:18:20 GMT -5
I had a NOS pipe that had been in a window display. Only the top was brown, but it took me a couple of days to get it back to black. UV in sunlight definitely accelerates oxidation in hydrocarbons. It's still technically oxygen reaction that is causing the chromophores to yellow and then turn darker shades of brown/yellow/green when the hydrocarbon breaks down into aldehydes, oxide branches, and esters, etc. This is why I personally believe that if we tried an experiment of keeping vulcanite stems well oiled in obsidian oil but left in the sunlight, they'd actually stay pitch black.
And that's a really nice pipe cabinet you've got there, Ron.
I think this is spot on. LED lights are also very low energy so the uv light won't have the same energy to catalyse the reaction (which I'm assuming is what's happening - the uv is providing the energy for the stem to react with oxygen). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2022 16:45:19 GMT -5
Thanks! This picture was before I found the other 2/3 of my pipes. You're welcome! That's what I figured, there's only a few featured in the photo.   |
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Post by cigrmaster on Jul 12, 2022 16:50:00 GMT -5
My experience has been that high quality German vulcanite does not oxidize especially when coated with Obidisian.
Years ago I has some high sulfur content stems that oxidized the minute I looked at them. Most were Upshalls and older Savinelli's. I have not had to deal with oxidized stems since I went strictly for the German stuff and coated them with Obidisian. It has been a real pleasure as I hate oxidized stems.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 12, 2022 19:43:52 GMT -5
Thanks! This picture was before I found the other 2/3 of my pipes. You're welcome! That's what I figured, there's only a few featured in the photo. There are 169 in it now. A bunch are still in boxes, 16 are in other racks around the house. The ones in boxes are pipes that probably should be thrown away, although most of them are smokable. I will be replacing a couple from the table by my chair to bring the cabinet to 171.  |
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Post by pepesdad1 on Jul 13, 2022 11:34:21 GMT -5
You're welcome! That's what I figured, there's only a few featured in the photo. There are 169 in it now. A bunch are still in boxes, 16 are in other racks around the house. The ones in boxes are pipes that probably should be thrown away, although most of them are smokable. I will be replacing a couple from the table by my chair to bring the cabinet to 171. I see that handsome Ron pipe, 5th from the left in the second row from the top. Great pipe cabinet, Ron...enjoy it for many years. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 13, 2022 12:37:54 GMT -5
I see that handsome Ron pipe, 5th from the left in the second row from the top. Great pipe cabinet, Ron...enjoy it for many years. Thanks. The 7th one is the blue twist RDpipe. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 13, 2022 12:39:40 GMT -5
China cabinets like this are pretty cheap these days. I only paid $150 for it at an estate sale. I got my 10 gun rifle cabinet for $120.
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chasingembers
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Posts: 1,909 
First Name: Duane
Favorite Pipe: My Growing J. Everett Collection, Fifteen Day Bruce Weaver Set, Meerschaums, Oguz Simsek Skulls
Favorite Tobacco: Black Frigate,Solani Silver Flake, Yenidje Highlander, Angler's Dream, Watch City Slices, Salty Dogs, Mephisto, Ennerdale Flake, Rich Dark Honeydew, 1792 Flake
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Post by chasingembers on Jul 13, 2022 15:17:38 GMT -5
Besides the impact of direct UV exposure, we have to consider the level of quality of the vulcanite/ebonite. The lower the quality, the more sulfur there is, the more the stem will tend to oxidize. And the higher the quality, the less there is sulfur, the less it will tend to oxidize. Good callout. Quite true. That's why Dunhill stems are known for their minimal oxidation and ease of stem cleaning. Probably more about their owners over thinking their value and keeping them in cases and boxes. All of the estates I've cleaned up were brown as dirt like this one and worse.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2022 16:49:13 GMT -5
Good callout. Quite true. That's why Dunhill stems are known for their minimal oxidation and ease of stem cleaning. Probably more about their owners over thinking their value and keeping them in cases and boxes. All of the estates I've cleaned up were brown as dirt like this one and worse. Is that the one you paid 20 bucks for, Duane? |
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joeman
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Posts: 566
First Name: Joe
Favorite Pipe: Grabow Hillcrest
Favorite Tobacco: Sutliff Barbados Plantation
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Post by joeman on Jul 18, 2022 10:33:40 GMT -5
Good callout. Quite true. That's why Dunhill stems are known for their minimal oxidation and ease of stem cleaning. Probably more about their owners over thinking their value and keeping them in cases and boxes. All of the estates I've cleaned up were brown as dirt like this one and worse. Duane - YES. I believe the same, that pipes which are highly valued by their owners are often more meticulously kept - and that's just fine; I keep all of my pipes in a drawer unit out of sunlight in the home office. I've restored a lot of Dunnies...most of which had that lovely milk-chocolate deep oxidation. In fact I've got a box full of Dunnies right now in need of restoring...some of which are from the patent-era...nearly all of which are loaded with oxidation. There is 'some' truth to certain vulcanite breeds oxidizing more or less...but I've restored every variety in my years...they all oxidize to some degree when used and exposed to the elements. Thanks for all of your responses about UV lights! |
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Post by trailboss on Jul 18, 2022 18:46:38 GMT -5
Good to see your avatar pop up, Joe!
The rare rascal you are!
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chasingembers
Senior Member
Posts: 1,909
First Name: Duane
Favorite Pipe: My Growing J. Everett Collection, Fifteen Day Bruce Weaver Set, Meerschaums, Oguz Simsek Skulls
Favorite Tobacco: Black Frigate,Solani Silver Flake, Yenidje Highlander, Angler's Dream, Watch City Slices, Salty Dogs, Mephisto, Ennerdale Flake, Rich Dark Honeydew, 1792 Flake
Location:
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Post by chasingembers on Jul 23, 2022 18:04:08 GMT -5
Probably more about their owners over thinking their value and keeping them in cases and boxes. All of the estates I've cleaned up were brown as dirt like this one and worse. Duane - YES. I believe the same, that pipes which are highly valued by their owners are often more meticulously kept - and that's just fine; I keep all of my pipes in a drawer unit out of sunlight in the home office. I've restored a lot of Dunnies...most of which had that lovely milk-chocolate deep oxidation. In fact I've got a box full of Dunnies right now in need of restoring...some of which are from the patent-era...nearly all of which are loaded with oxidation. There is 'some' truth to certain vulcanite breeds oxidizing more or less...but I've restored every variety in my years...they all oxidize to some degree when used and exposed to the elements. Thanks for all of your responses about UV lights! I've noticed the ones that I've burned the oxidation off of haven't had a recurring oxidation issue and the oldest is from five years ago when I stopped using sandpaper to remove it. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Jul 23, 2022 20:28:39 GMT -5
There is 'some' truth to certain vulcanite breeds oxidizing more or less...but I've restored every variety in my years...they all oxidize to some degree when used and exposed to the elements. Thanks for all of your responses about UV lights! I've noticed the ones that I've burned the oxidation off of haven't had a recurring oxidation issue and the oldest is from five years ago when I stopped using sandpaper to remove it. I just looked at some of mine and you're right. I guess it removes the surface sulphur? |
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chasingembers
Senior Member
Posts: 1,909
First Name: Duane
Favorite Pipe: My Growing J. Everett Collection, Fifteen Day Bruce Weaver Set, Meerschaums, Oguz Simsek Skulls
Favorite Tobacco: Black Frigate,Solani Silver Flake, Yenidje Highlander, Angler's Dream, Watch City Slices, Salty Dogs, Mephisto, Ennerdale Flake, Rich Dark Honeydew, 1792 Flake
Location:
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Post by chasingembers on Jul 23, 2022 20:49:38 GMT -5
I've noticed the ones that I've burned the oxidation off of haven't had a recurring oxidation issue and the oldest is from five years ago when I stopped using sandpaper to remove it. I just looked at some of mine and you're right. I guess it removes the surface sulphur? I've thought that or the burning somehow changes its chemical makeup. |
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joeman
Full Member
Posts: 566
First Name: Joe
Favorite Pipe: Grabow Hillcrest
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Post by joeman on Jul 25, 2022 9:08:20 GMT -5
Good to see your avatar pop up, Joe! The rare rascal you are! Thanks Charlie! I don't mean to be so rare. It's been a busy year! |
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