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Post by qmechanics on Oct 9, 2023 13:32:11 GMT -5
Many years from now digital archeologists will be rummaging through this site. Based on your threads and/or posts what do you think they might think of you? Do not be shy... You might help shape your history....
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,358
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Oct 9, 2023 23:03:59 GMT -5
The old myth that everything put on the internet, stays on the internet, is just that. Myth. Specifically just pipe forums alone, we have lost hundreds of thousands of posts from all the best pipe forums that went up in smoke over the past decade. Sadly, the internet has been disappearing at a very rapid and alarming rate. Much of what was on the internet pre-2012 is already gone. You have very few folks archiving and typically, archivists are archiving the things they are interested most. Brewster Kahle's Archive.org is one of the best doing it out there and they are constantly in a legal struggle, though they attempt to archive everything; old books, mags, games/software, sites (via TheWaybackMachine) and much smaller archival systems are out there, but also struggle and mostly struggle with all the bandwidth and storage. The sad reality here is that once the host stops paying for hosting, stops hosting forum backups or never provides them, or dies, the site usually dies and all the posts with it. Almost nothing at all is left on the internet that I posted over 12 years ago. The internet is really just "other people's computers" and those computers die a lot sooner than you think.
There's MUCH more to archival quality and ephemeral issues of digital than most realize as well. Hard drives, disks, solid state disks all barely last for 20 years. If you backup to cheap storage like flash disks and consumer hard drives and throw that in a closet for 20-30 years, it's gone when you try to retrieve it. Things like bit-rot, obsoleted software libraries, decaying media. VHS, compact discs, and optical lasers in the 1990's game consoles and DVD players are already now running into this huge problem. The majority of CDs will be gone inside of the next 10 years. Archival quality tape backups are required in massive storage sizes to back up any decent quantity in any quality of swathes of media and internet. Then you have to have redundant tape backup, so to do it properly at home costs many thousands just for the tape drives and thousands more just for the tapes. Then you need offsite backups for resiliency.
(Was poking around archives of PSF from early 2015 and while I can get quite a lot of pages, a bunch is missing as well. Members areas from forums won't be crawled either if the area requires a login to read posts.)
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,358
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Oct 10, 2023 0:00:36 GMT -5
Disclaimer: Should have mentioned I’m a retro computing hobbyist so this is an area of interest for me. I suppose what people will gather of what’s digitally left of me will be a neurotic dude with ecclectic and esoteric tastes in things.  |
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Post by qmechanics on Oct 14, 2023 13:02:30 GMT -5
You took things a bit too seriously...
Look at the first post as the beginning of a story, where others might add their chapters, however brief. For example, your second post, chapter 1 🤓🍺, ended in the manner that was hoped for.
If the introduction is problematic to others, then imagine the archeologists found old drives where the information miraculously survived. Due to their tech, they were able to restore and extract the information....Blah,blah well anyway the idea did not catch... 🤓🍻
I have tried a few times to generate conversation beyond the standard threads.
Why?
Having been away for a bit, family matters etc., the drop in Patch participation is fairly apparent. With fewer people present/engaging, worn out threads, etc. the Patch appears to be headed, sooner than later, into the oblivion (I would prefer that this does not happen, though eventually all things pass.). As you pointed out🤓, this forum, like other sites, is not important enough for the powers that be to take an interest in long term archiving, storage etc.
PS Though I might not be the enthusiast you are and certainly not an expert , I am familiar with archiving and other digital adventures,things mentioned and not mentioned. Still, if you sparked others to think about such activities and look further into it, your post is more important than the storyline I intended.
All the best....
Q
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 14, 2023 13:27:46 GMT -5
I have lost MUCH through the years. I started with command-line DOS and floppies. And even Radio Shack tape drives. Then went thru Macs with hard 3.5 disks. Different drives, etc. I didn’t lose anything the world will miss, but it has pointed out to me how effervescent and ephemeral our digital lives can be. Dust to dust and ether to ether?
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Post by Silver on Oct 14, 2023 13:30:17 GMT -5
It's good to see you here, Q! I pretty sure that I'll fade away into the mists of time, after I'm gone. But, if I'm rediscovered from my posts on The Briar Patch, maybe people will be amused by my apparent obsession with these hollowed out bits of wood. I agree with your observation that our forum is in a bit of a decline.
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Post by just ol ed on Oct 14, 2023 13:43:16 GMT -5
all I can do is what I do as regular as I can. Never had computers in high school, only got this far thanks to a public library research fella in '01 when 1st got a computer. As to archiving...no idea which buttons to push, in what order etc. Have looked thru other parts of the Patch, many of the words are just that...words & good % of them just techie gibberish. Do appreciate those who accept me as is & hope I continue here & one of few at the chat screen
Ed-getting closer to 83
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 14, 2023 14:07:39 GMT -5
I don’t know if the Patch is in decline. Forums sometimes “take a little rest” and then spring back to life. If we were ONLY about pipes and tobaccos I have no doubt that a terminus would eventually arrive. But we are a true community with all sorts of subjects and interests which we share. That is our strength, IMO.
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Post by urbino on Oct 14, 2023 14:40:13 GMT -5
The Patch is definitely down a few members right now, but they're not all gone. We've got some guys on hiatus due to health and family reasons. I think some decline is inevitable just owing to the demographics. Average age around here is probably about 60. Do the other forums have a lot of young members joining?
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 14, 2023 14:43:53 GMT -5
Urb, I suspect that the idea of a “forum” is pretty old-style in itself. I don’t think it’s the kind of digi-thing the young’uns are looking for. So as pipe smokers are we the troglodytes of troglodytes? Probably.
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Post by toshtego on Oct 14, 2023 14:50:03 GMT -5
Not many young people smoke tobacco pipes or so it appears to me. I have not seen a single piper smoker in this area for many years. So, anytime a new person shows interest here, I am very happy to welcome them.
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Post by urbino on Oct 14, 2023 14:53:37 GMT -5
Well, I meant "young" in relative terms. People in their 40s, say. Pick up a few of those, and we've got a whole new generation of Patch members.
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Post by username on Oct 14, 2023 15:03:46 GMT -5
Well, I meant "young" in relative terms. People in their 40s, say. Pick up a few of those, and we've got a whole new generation of Patch members. as someone I their 40s I find my generation tends to stick to discord and other social media not really forums anymore. In my experience with my friends were alway talking thru discord and they use reddit heavily. |
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,358
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Oct 16, 2023 18:11:40 GMT -5
I am always one of the youngest guys to attend the NASPC pipe show in Columbus, OH. All these Youtube pipe guys are showing up now and I’ve now met several, but the only guy I knew on sight was Muttonchop Piper! Most of the guys now use Instagram, Facebook groups, and Youtube. I’m more of an old soul and I don’t use typical social media, as it’s more junk and noise but that’s the way folks are going lately. Many still have a Pipesmagazine account as well.
It can be harder to engage in long form, forum communications when folks are short for time and attention.
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 16, 2023 18:11:59 GMT -5
Literacy might be another deterrent to forum participation.
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,358
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Oct 16, 2023 18:15:01 GMT -5
Sadly, very true.
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Post by urbino on Oct 16, 2023 18:39:57 GMT -5
I am always one of the youngest guys to attend the NASPC pipe show in Columbus, OH. All these Youtube pipe guys are showing up now and I’ve now met several, but the only guy I knew on sight was Muttonchop Piper! Most of the guys now use Instagram, Facebook groups, and Youtube. I’m more of an old soul and I don’t use typical social media, as it’s more junk and noise but that’s the way folks are going lately. Many still have a Pipesmagazine account as well. It can be harder to engage in long form, forum communications when folks are short for time and attention. I suspect you're on the right trail. I watch some of the YTPC videos, but I don't really comment because it's a poor format for communication. It's really not intended for any kind of back-and-forth; certainly not a prolonged or in-depth back-and-forth. Discord is the same way. A sports blog I visit recently overhauled its comment system to make it more like that -- people serially posting comments next to other people's instead of having a discussion with other people. Younger folks seem to prefer that style of . . . I'm not sure what to call it . . . I guess I'll go with "interaction". A forum like this doesn't really make much sense to them. The users of that sports blog hate the changes to the comment system, and they're younger than the Patch crowd, but they're likely an exception to the rule. |
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tree16
Junior Member
Posts: 104
Location:
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Post by tree16 on Oct 16, 2023 21:51:07 GMT -5
I'm still enjoying the patch but Dr Harrelson of the Pipe Cottage put out a new platform earlier this year called Pipe Cottage Social. It can be downloaded as an app or browsed through the website on a computer. They seem to have a pretty good community with a mixed range of young and old pipe smokers. A little clunky though as it glitches out at times.
Since I have no real posting history to speak of, I'll just say I like reading through the old 'New Creations' and 'Repairs, Restorations, & Maintenance' threads.
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 16, 2023 22:23:23 GMT -5
While we’re on the topic of digi-archeo… here is the URL to a blog I ran for several years… outbacknotes.blogspot.com/2008/I got busy with a major project and it more or less lapsed. Some might find it interesting as it’s about a life-style that almost doesn’t exist anymore. |
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Post by urbino on Oct 16, 2023 22:26:04 GMT -5
I'm still enjoying the patch but Dr Harrelson of the Pipe Cottage put out a new platform earlier this year called Pipe Cottage Social. It can be downloaded as an app or browsed through the website on a computer. They seem to have a pretty good community with a mixed range of young and old pipe smokers. A little clunky though as it glitches out at times. Since I have no real posting history to speak of, I'll just say I like reading through the old 'New Creations' and 'Repairs, Restorations, & Maintenance' threads. From what I've of him on his YT channel, that guy strikes me as a bit of a peckerwood, as we call them in this part of the country. Don't think his place would be for me. Let a thousand flowers bloom, though. |
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tree16
Junior Member
Posts: 104
Location:
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Post by tree16 on Oct 17, 2023 8:28:30 GMT -5
From what I've of him on his YT channel, that guy strikes me as a bit of a peckerwood, as we call them in this part of the country. Don't think his place would be for me. Let a thousand flowers bloom, though. Yeah I don't know much about him specifically but it is good to see another option that seems to be helping grow the hobby. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 17, 2023 17:59:49 GMT -5
They will wonder why I didn't have a life. 🙄
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Post by johnlawitzke on Oct 18, 2023 16:32:58 GMT -5
I am always one of the youngest guys to attend the NASPC pipe show in Columbus, OH. All these Youtube pipe guys are showing up now and I’ve now met several, but the only guy I knew on sight was Muttonchop Piper! Most of the guys now use Instagram, Facebook groups, and Youtube. I’m more of an old soul and I don’t use typical social media, as it’s more junk and noise but that’s the way folks are going lately. Many still have a Pipesmagazine account as well. It can be harder to engage in long form, forum communications when folks are short for time and attention. I suspect you're on the right trail. I watch some of the YTPC videos, but I don't really comment because it's a poor format for communication. It's really not intended for any kind of back-and-forth; certainly not a prolonged or in-depth back-and-forth. Discord is the same way. A sports blog I visit recently overhauled its comment system to make it more like that -- people serially posting comments next to other people's instead of having a discussion with other people. Younger folks seem to prefer that style of . . . I'm not sure what to call it . . . I guess I'll go with "interaction". A forum like this doesn't really make much sense to them. The users of that sports blog hate the changes to the comment system, and they're younger than the Patch crowd, but they're likely an exception to the rule. I don’t watch YouTube pipe videos. They are inefficient and don’t hold my attention. a) They waste a bunch of time saying what pipe and tobacco they are smoking. Then the pipe gets set aside for the rest of the video because they’re too busy talking to smoke. Then they take forever to finally get to their point. So, I could read in 15 to 30 seconds what they take over 5 minutes to babble. b) With my hearing disability and having gone for years before finally getting hearing aids, audio forms of communication do not hold my attention because I have to focus intensely to stay on track with what’s being said. Especially as they meander before getting their point, if they have one. I’m much more of a visual person, such as reading, as a result. |
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 18, 2023 17:35:42 GMT -5
I understand, John. I, too, have a hearing disability. Without the little electronic wonders I am essentially deaf. It definitely changes your perspective on almost everything! My main use of Youtube is for intricate firearm disassembly/assembly and modification procedures. Most of these could be done in 2 or 3 minutes if it weren’t for the “producers’” love of their own voices. Most of my voiced frustration takes the form of “Get ON with it!”
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Post by trailboss on Oct 18, 2023 19:12:25 GMT -5
“ Based on your threads and/or posts what do you think they might think of you?”
That the standards were not very high for this forum participant!
😉
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Post by johnlawitzke on Oct 18, 2023 20:45:07 GMT -5
I understand, John. I, too, have a hearing disability. Without the little electronic wonders I am essentially deaf. It definitely changes your perspective on almost everything! My main use of Youtube is for intricate firearm disassembly/assembly and modification procedures. Most of these could be done in 2 or 3 minutes if it weren’t for the “producers’” love of their own voices. Most of my voiced frustration takes the form of “Get ON with it!” Heh… I’m usually saying "Get to the point!!!” Perhaps with a pointed expletive adjective in front of "point". |
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rastewart
Junior Member
Posts: 360
First Name: Rich
Favorite Pipe: Freehands, bent bulldogs, and the incomparable Peterson 303
Favorite Tobacco: Mac Baren's Scottish Blend (Mixture), C&D Mountain Camp, C&D Bayou Morning
Location:
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Post by rastewart on Oct 20, 2023 18:32:05 GMT -5
I dread to think what a future digital archeologist might think of my surviving digital shards.
"Man, that was one garrulous old coot."
I do regret all the long-ago posts that are lost, though, from forums now defunct. Smokers Forums, for example, there were some good talks there. Not to mention one fellow piper whose mailing address I've managed to lose.
There was also a blog run by Will Manley, a retired librarian, that attracted an eclectic and devoted following of mostly library types, and whose comments became a forum of sorts, often far exceeding the length of the post that inspired them. I've managed to find some --a few-- of them on Wayback, but so much more is gone forever. And honestly, some of the best conversations I've ever had outside of my small circle of family and close friends.
I'm keeping paper copies of most of the things I really most want to last.
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 20, 2023 23:15:26 GMT -5
I understand, John. I, too, have a hearing disability. Without the little electronic wonders I am essentially deaf. It definitely changes your perspective on almost everything! My main use of Youtube is for intricate firearm disassembly/assembly and modification procedures. Most of these could be done in 2 or 3 minutes if it weren’t for the “producers’” love of their own voices. Most of my voiced frustration takes the form of “Get ON with it!” Heh… I’m usually saying "Get to the point!!!” Perhaps with a pointed expletive adjective in front of "point". I don't like podcasts and I don't watch YouTube vids very often. I can read a transcript of a podcast in 20th of the time it takes to listen to it. I get bored easily. |
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Post by trailboss on Oct 21, 2023 10:36:33 GMT -5
I understand, John. I, too, have a hearing disability. Without the little electronic wonders I am essentially deaf. It definitely changes your perspective on almost everything! My main use of Youtube is for intricate firearm disassembly/assembly and modification procedures. Most of these could be done in 2 or 3 minutes if it weren’t for the “producers’” love of their own voices. Most of my voiced frustration takes the form of “Get ON with it!” A pet peeve of mine also. Some of the tobacco reviewers think that you have never seen a tin opened before, and you are supposed to be amazed and in wonderment as they open the Ark Of The Covenant. |
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Post by urbino on Oct 21, 2023 15:05:38 GMT -5
I understand, John. I, too, have a hearing disability. Without the little electronic wonders I am essentially deaf. It definitely changes your perspective on almost everything! My main use of Youtube is for intricate firearm disassembly/assembly and modification procedures. Most of these could be done in 2 or 3 minutes if it weren’t for the “producers’” love of their own voices. Most of my voiced frustration takes the form of “Get ON with it!” A pet peeve of mine also. Some of the tobacco reviewers think that you have never seen a tin opened before, and you are supposed to be amazed and in wonderment as they open the Ark Of The Covenant. I think they're mostly just trying to be welcoming and helpful to any beginners who watch. |
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