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Post by oldcajun123 on Jun 16, 2017 11:28:44 GMT -5
This was emailed to me by Pipes to Smoke, Bashing Tobbaco Makers by Pipe Sellers is a stupid thing! Real Tobacco or not!
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Post by crapgame on Jun 16, 2017 12:47:41 GMT -5
Really now??? No words.. Some people just need to carp about something just to be happy....or mad..
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Post by trailboss on Jun 16, 2017 12:49:04 GMT -5
Cranky Canucks! I agree....bad form for a purveyor.
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Post by puffy on Jun 16, 2017 12:55:07 GMT -5
I just wonder how many folks remember exactly what the originals taste like.
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Post by trailboss on Jun 16, 2017 12:56:37 GMT -5
I just wonder how many folks remember the originals . Betcha Jim Inks does!
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Grimpeur
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Post by Grimpeur on Jun 16, 2017 13:12:03 GMT -5
If I'm not mistaken, Max has a long history of poking the nearest hornet's nest when the mood strikes. In this instance, I happen to somewhat agree with what he's saying. One of the elements of having an old, favourite blend changed that I find upsetting is not really that the blend has changed, it's that I'm being forcibly reminded that the past is indeed the past. That link to old memories and emotions has been taken from me...I'm getting older and closer to the end.
I grumble about it once in awhile, but rather than get too upset, I take it as a reminder that things change, and that if one of the things that upsets me is that if one or two hundred out of the thousands of blends available have changed...man, my life must be pretty good, and I have a lot to be grateful for. And then I smoke my new favourite blends as I create new memories.
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Post by peteguy on Jun 16, 2017 15:15:09 GMT -5
I judge all of these new blends by there own merits. I guess this guy doesn't. He probably hates the new Mustangs, Chargers, Beetles, etc. as well. What a JA.
"if one of the things that upsets me is that if one or two hundred out of the thousands of blends available have changed...man, my life must be pretty good,"
Well said.
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Post by GRUMPY on Jun 16, 2017 15:22:59 GMT -5
I rather liked the new John Cotton's,Bengal Slices,and War Horse. Being an old fart, I know your taste and smeller change as you age (if you're lucky and don't die first). It is presumptuous to assume to can say you can tell that there is a difference after 10,20,30 years or more. Rather than complain I'd just enjoy the fact that I haven't kicked the bucket and can still puff my pipe. And I'm Grumpy? Who Knew?
Tobacco is a natural product (mostly) and is subject to the whims of nature. As wines vary from year to year, so does tobacco. The fresh tomato I ate last year may have been actually better than the one I eat today. To know the difference would be a god like ability.
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Grimpeur
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Post by Grimpeur on Jun 16, 2017 16:00:06 GMT -5
To be fair, aka playing the devil's advocate, the difference between some of the new iterations and old really is like night and day: I'm looking at you St.Bruno!
And, no, it's not presumptuous or entirely misguided to rely on old memories; think of Proust's writing of the madeleines and the effect of their scent...
To give a frame of reference a good number of you south of the border will get immediately... imagine a Chinese company bought the rights to the Smith and Wesson catalogue. After taking the production home to China, the first item off the line was the fabled Triple-Lock. Only it was a polymer frame, semi-auto in 9mm only. It might be a fine, durable gun, and find a lot of buyers, but it ain't a Triple-Lock.
None of this is worth a heart attack, but I have I do have sympathy for those who are a little upset by this trend.
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Post by danno44 on Jun 16, 2017 18:35:11 GMT -5
Being a fairly new pipe smoker (2 yrs and 2 months in) I don't have a point of reference. I can tell the difference from a fresh batch of baccy from say a 2 year old jar like SH Select Mixture, but if I were honest, I likely couldn't tell the difference if I was blindfolded and didn't know. Sure one may taste different from the other, but to try and remember a baccy from 20 years ago to now, my palate just isn't developed enough. I blame smoking cigs for 30+ years on that. I'm typically the "get off my lawn guy" and only 50, but this guy takes it to another level and needs medication in my non medical education opinion. Or he needs to focus on something else. The man is going to have an aneurism...maybe gardening or something.
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Post by Lady Margaret on Jun 16, 2017 19:46:35 GMT -5
I rather liked the new John Cotton's,Bengal Slices,and War Horse. Being an old fart, I know your taste and smeller change as you age (if you're lucky and don't die first). It is presumptuous to assume to can say you can tell that there is a difference after 10,20,30 years or more. Rather than complain I'd just enjoy the fact that I haven't kicked the bucket and can still puff my pipe. And I'm Grumpy? Who Knew?
Tobacco is a natural product (mostly) and is subject to the whims of nature. As wines vary from year to year, so does tobacco. The fresh tomato I ate last year may have been actually better than the one I eat today. To know the difference would be a god like ability.
well said, Grump!
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Post by peterd-Buffalo Spirit on Jun 16, 2017 21:54:56 GMT -5
...a good deal of truth on both sides......today marks my 56th year of pipe smoking and I do miss many of the tobaccos from the 50's - 80's...but even those that have been around even longer, and are still in production, have themselves changed...
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Post by herbinedave on Jun 17, 2017 6:21:42 GMT -5
Brad the pettiness and downplaying the newer tobacco is wrong. Most of the new stuff is modelled after 20-30 yo tins and that means age. It also means the tobacco has changed. I personally would use the criteria I always use to judge a tobacco. Thumbsup or down. No sense reminiscing on stuff of yore! Have I smoked some? Yes and I have liked and disliked some of it. But I have kept that to myself.
One thing else, if your smoking original aged tobacco, that is differrent also. May have mellowed out and gotten smoother. The taste of latakia may have gone the way of saddle shoes. You get my point. It is all relevant to what you like and no need to piss on someones parade!
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Post by daveinlax on Jun 18, 2017 20:06:53 GMT -5
Yeah I get it tobacco mixtures change and Max is a well known pain in the arse and I don't agree with him on much but guys bitch and moan about changes in Dunhill and other old line brands but at least they have some ownership link and heritage with the past. These brands are just stuff lane puts in tins with lapsed US trademarks. There is no link to the past and IMO STG Lane is just throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks.
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Post by qmechanics on Sept 12, 2018 9:09:00 GMT -5
The Standard Tobacco Company of Pennsylvania makes a number of these blends with Russ Ouellette's involvement and some credit to blenders at Lane. I do not believe Lane blenders & Russ were all involved in each blend. For example, John Cotton, Bengal Slices etc. appear to be Russ Ouellette's work. In any case, the blends' histories were researched and along with the blenders expertise, past smoking experiences, blend deconstruction, sampling older products,testing the recreations etc. an attempt was made to faithfully recreate each blend.So these products appear to me to be a result of sincere, concentrated efforts and not a mere marketing ploy (I do not discount the past history or present marketability. There is however more to these blends including personal care and interest.) There are some who will not try them on principle. What brave souls are those who take such a strong stand on pipe tobacco (Makes me chuckle everytime when self-important pipe folks speak from their own private Idahos 😁.). Thank goodness they are fewer in number. For after reading the blends' reviews from many types of the old-timers, I have been left encouraged. A number state either a given blend is somewhat,fairly close to spot on (How spot on who knows?The number of positive reviews also varies from blend to blend with a few notes to aging etc. .) or enjoy the remakes for their own sake. Never having smoked the originals, I have enjoyed a few of these blends (John Cotton 1,1&2,Smyrna, Bengal Slices and Warhorse) and that is what truly matters. Two article among others: www.talkingtobacco.com/2015/11/a-daunting-proposition/socalpipester.wordpress.com/author/socalpipester/
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professorthroway
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Post by professorthroway on Sept 12, 2018 9:17:23 GMT -5
Even if the blends continued they wouldn't be the same today as they were decades ago. All blends shift with time as tobacco is a natural product and the leaf today isn't the same as the leaf in the 60's.
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Post by daveinlax on Sept 12, 2018 10:23:39 GMT -5
It’s like buying a counterfeit LV bag or Rolex from a flea market.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2018 10:52:25 GMT -5
I reckon you can agree or not agree with what he said, either way its not going to change anything. You either like the new blends or you don't, no one is forcing anyone to purchase them. Escudo went through a change and I didn't care for but, I still smoke it because it didn't take it that far off what it was (to Me) and I've learned to live with it because there is no replacment, it was my choice. Everyone has an opinion and everyone's taste buds are different, that I know. So when someone says this tobacco is garbage or its great I still have to evaluate it myself. I've got half a cellar almost of blends people swore up and down was the greatest thing since the wheel that I personally don't care for. Blenders I would imagine are like cooks, even if two chef's have the same ingredients they'll both taste a bit different. As far as ingredients being no longer available, that's just what happens in time and we have to substitute to make it work. Many of the old electronics and other items I've worked on in the past 30-40 years have components that wear out that are not made anymore and some can not be reproduced so I have to do with what I can make or find to make it work. I would think the same applies to tobacco blends and many other things in our lives that have seen there time. Just my two bits on the subject.
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Screaming Jazz
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Post by Screaming Jazz on Sept 12, 2018 11:37:17 GMT -5
Never had the old stuff. I like what I've tried of the new stuff. I have nothing to be nostalgic about.
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professorthroway
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Post by professorthroway on Sept 12, 2018 11:46:42 GMT -5
It’s like buying a counterfeit LV bag or Rolex from a flea market. Nah it is more like if the Swatch group decided to sell Omega to another company. The new factory, most likely in China, won't be building watches exactly like there were in Switzerland. The new owners can't let quality slip too much because they likely paid a whole lot for the name. Old Omegas would fetch a premium on the secondary market, some collectors wouldn't even consider the new watches, and other would say "Hey my grandfather owned a Seamaster I want one too."
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Post by slowroll on Sept 12, 2018 12:23:15 GMT -5
Personally I think most of these blenders deserve some credit for the time and effort spent to try and recreate sundry blends. It ain't easy and takes lot of time and money. Sometimes they get it close and sometimes not so much. The point is they're trying to satisfy demand. I think we are in the land of the talking horse, -- the wonder is that the horse talks at all, not how good its grammar is.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 12, 2018 13:29:43 GMT -5
The Standard Tobacco Company of Pennsylvania makes a number of these blends with Russ Ouellette's involvement and some credit to blenders at Lane. I do not believe Lane blenders & Russ were all involved in each blend. For example, John Cotton, Bengal Slices etc. appear to be Russ Ouellette's work. In any case, the blends' histories were researched and along with the blenders expertise, past smoking experiences, blend deconstruction, sampling older products,testing the recreations etc. an attempt was made to faithfully recreate each blend.So these products appear to me to be a result of sincere, concentrated efforts and not a mere marketing ploy (I do not discount the past history or present marketability. There is however more to these blends including personal care and interest.) There are some who will not try them on principle. What brave souls are those who take such a strong stand on pipe tobacco (Makes me chuckle everytime when self-important pipe folks speak from their own private Idahos 😁.). Thank goodness they are fewer in number. For after reading the blends' reviews from many types of the old-timers, I have been left encouraged. A number state either a given blend is somewhat,fairly close to spot on (How spot on who knows?The number of positive reviews also varies from blend to blend with a few notes to aging etc. .) or enjoy the remakes for their own sake. Never having smoked the originals, I have enjoyed a few of these blends (John Cotton 1,1&2,Smyrna, Bengal Slices and Warhorse) and that is what truly matters. Two article among others: www.talkingtobacco.com/2015/11/a-daunting-proposition/socalpipester.wordpress.com/author/socalpipester/That's correct with regard to the Cottons, Warhorse Bar, and Bengal Slices. They even went so far as to perform a thorough chemical analysis, including gas chromatography, to determine what was in these blends so that they could make as honest an attempt to recreate them as possible. Max has his opinions and they're often ignorant so this little rant doesn't surprise me. Take Capstan, one of the blends Max objects to. I've smoked Capstan from the '30's, '40's, '50's, "60's , etc as well as the recent production and it all has that distinctive Capstan taste, even allowing for the effects of aging. Is it the same? Of course not, how could it be? But it's recognizably close. Move a blend to another facility and the blend will change. Rely upon recipes only and changes in sources will throw the result off the mark. Germain's may have the recipe for Balkan Sobranie, but they have neither the ingredients, nor the taste. Russ' WhiteKnight is closer to what I smoked, and closer to the samples of the Gallaher made product, against which I got to sample Germain's BS and H&H WhiteKnight. Russ has got a palette. He uses that instead of an outdated recipe. I never smoked the original Cottons, so I have no basis for comparison, but I have smoked Bengal Slices in days of yore, and Russ hit the mark there as well. Where I will agree with Max is that a lot of blends are just relabelings of readily available currently made blends, and that sticking a "famous" name on a simple relabel is misleading. Welcome to rebranding. I'll also concede that changes in ownership lead to loss of the original blend, unless the new owner is dedicated to finding a reformulation that restores the flavors as closely as possible. I've even labeled Denmark as the place British blends go to die. But sometimes things stay just fine or are even better. I love the A C Peterson version of Escudo. But the STG version misses the mark. And now that they're using Stokkebye tobacco for it, you might as well buy LBF and save yourself some money. MacBaren's St. Bruno is a "sort of" version for me, but I'd still rather have it than nothing. And I enjoy it on its own merits. By Max's reasoning, all current Dunhill products are fakes, crap, an outrage. Hmmmm...maybe he IS onto something. But even if a blend has changed, judge it on its own merits.
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Post by monbla256 on Sept 12, 2018 13:50:07 GMT -5
We all want consistency in our lives and change is the only constant in life.
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Post by pepesdad1 on Sept 13, 2018 11:57:32 GMT -5
Personally I think most of these blenders deserve some credit for the time and effort spent to try and recreate sundry blends. It ain't easy and takes lot of time and money. Sometimes they get it close and sometimes not so much. The point is they're trying to satisfy demand. I think we are in the land of the talking horse, -- the wonder is that the horse talks at all, not how good its grammar is. Ditto .Personally I like it and I am grateful they made it
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2018 21:36:40 GMT -5
I never had any of the originals, but I love Murray's, John Cotton, Bengal Slices. I have some other Standard Tobacco Pennsylvania brands to try at some later point. Oh, and I have tried a few Dobies. I've liked them all. If a few are repackaged something else, it's not the whole story. If some don't come close to the original, neither is this the whole story. Taking on some of these brand names, to me, is quite a bold move. I found out a hundred bowls later that Distinguished Gentleman was a "take" on an old fashioned tobacco. It is done by Iwan Reis, whose image should be on Mount Rushmore next to JimInks The Man From INKS, and I love it, so what, me worry? Brad, thanks for bringing this to our attention. It changed nothing in my mind, but I like that it challenged my thoughts
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Post by trailboss on Sept 15, 2018 2:53:51 GMT -5
I am thankful that an attempt was made, I personally love the Warhorse line of tobacco's..had not Dan, Simon, and Russ put the effort in, I wouldn't have what I enjoy regardless if it matches the original or not. (I have never had the original) The same could be said of all the other STG blends. Some people actually take a risk, while others throw rocks....it sounds like Maxim Engels may have a motive to get gripey... christianpipesmokers.net/viewtopic.php?t=41528
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