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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 3, 2017 20:35:38 GMT -5
Hello Friends Bad news. I dipped into my jar of bulk Nightcap today and it was bone dry. Best described as crispy.. haha Anyway, I found it bitey and one dimentional in it's flavour as much of it's character has been lost along with the moisture. Two questions: If re-hydrated, will the tobacco again be good, if not as good as it once was or is it permanently ruined? I hope not, as it is a good 6 ounces of tobacco... The next question is about the jar. I have it in a large hinged-lid style jar. I don't know whether the jar's seal is unreliable or maybe the issue was with volume. I had the smoke in said jar and only halfway full for months. Is there a rule of thumb for how full a container should be to ensure freshness? The jar was also a bargain at one place or another.. I may have gotten what I paid for. Here is a pic of the style, though not my actual jar. Thanks, Justin
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Post by beardedmi on Sept 3, 2017 20:54:53 GMT -5
That style of jar is not for long term storage as the seal is porous enough for air transfer. Its a low density material that will allow air and moisture exchange usually air in and evaporation of any moisture out. If you can smell your baccy from outside the container its a bad sign for longer term storage. I really like canning jars.. a lot. They're fairly cheap and can be found everywhere, best of all they are reusable.
Edit: I have some vintage syrian that was stored in the bag since 2009 and it is significantly dryer than the recent stuff I have, but a few breaths like your trying to warm up your hands while holding a bowls worth works wonders and it tastes mighty fine.
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Post by JimInks on Sept 3, 2017 20:58:31 GMT -5
Hello Friends Bad news. I dipped into my jar of bulk Nightcap today and it was bone dry. Best described as crispy.. haha Anyway, I found it bitey and one dimentional in it's flavour as much of it's character has been lost along with the moisture. Two questions: If re-hydrated, will the tobacco again be good, if not as good as it once was or is it permanently ruined? I hope not, as it is a good 6 ounces of tobacco... The next question is about the jar. I have it in a large hinged-lid style jar. I don't know whether the jar's seal is unreliable or maybe the issue was with volume. I had the smoke in said jar and only halfway full for months. Is there a rule of thumb for how full a container should be to ensure freshness? The jar was also a bargain at one place or another.. I may have gotten what I paid for. Here is a pic of the style, though not my actual jar. Thanks, Justin Use mason jars, man. They are much safer. The tobacco may not come back 100%, but it may come back enough that you'll find it an acceptable smoke. Most of the time, you'll lose something when tobacco goes bone dry.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 3, 2017 21:05:33 GMT -5
That style of jar is not for long term storage as the seal is porous enough for air transfer. Its a low density material that will allow air and moisture exchange usually air in and evaporation of any moisture out. If you can smell your baccy from outside the container its a bad sign for longer term storage. I really like canning jars.. a lot. They're fairly cheap and can be found everywhere, best of all they are reusable. Wow. So they actually seem to be fashioned for the exact opposite purpose I was using them for. haha Thank you. Most of my bulks are in standard Mason jars. I need to buy some more it seems. I only had the two large 'apothecary jars' and liked them for their aesthetics. Maybe I'll buy a couple of those bags of cigarette tobacco and fill them with that just for decoration.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 3, 2017 21:06:30 GMT -5
Use mason jars, man. They are much safer. The tobacco may not come back 100%, but it may come back enough that you'll find it an acceptable smoke. Most of the time, you'll lose something when tobacco goes bone dry. That's what I was afraid of, Jim. Thanks
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 3, 2017 21:08:35 GMT -5
Also, I know this obviously varies as blends are all different with moisture content as well as how they are cased, but is there an average to how long I have to finish a tin before it's in danger? I almost feel like I should be transferring the tin directly to a jar after opening.
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Post by peterd-Buffalo Spirit on Sept 3, 2017 21:51:18 GMT -5
...for more than 40 years I have used a distilled water/glycerin formula in a spray bottle(spray set to a very fine mist)to re-hydrate my tobaccos...my formula; 3 drops of glycerin to 1 qt. of distilled water. I have stored tobaccos from 1968 and they still smoke fine...
..for bone dry tobaccos I put it in a 1 or 2 gallon zip lock, spray 2 sprays, then toss...spray 2 sprays...toss again, then 2 more sprays...this would be for 10 to 16 oz. of tobacco...
Never had any mold issues and by this method, I never ruined any tobacco...
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Post by haebar on Sept 3, 2017 21:59:01 GMT -5
As has been said, Mason jars with new lids are the best bet. Although, the bail type jars are not so bad if you put new gaskets on them occasionally. I have a few of the bail-type jars and pick up some of them in thrift stores stores, but I always change out the gaskets with new ones that I buy from Ace Hardware or Amazon. The bail type jars are good for storage of blends that you will be accessing more often and not for long-term aging.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 3, 2017 22:30:30 GMT -5
...for more than 40 years I have used a distilled water/glycerin formula in a spray bottle(spray set to a very fine mist)to re-hydrate my tobaccos...my formula; 3 drops of glycerin to 1 qt. of distilled water. I have stored tobaccos from 1968 and they still smoke fine...
..for bone dry tobaccos I put it in a 1 or 2 gallon zip lock, spray 2 sprays, then toss...spray 2 sprays...toss again, then 2 more sprays...this would be for 10 to 16 oz. of tobacco...
Never had any mold issues and by this method, I never ruined any tobacco... Outstanding. This is exactly what I'll do with my Nightcap before transferring to a Mason jar. Thanks, Peter!
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Post by trailboss on Sept 3, 2017 22:54:12 GMT -5
Peter has given excellent advice, to add to that is this excellent article that adds to the conversation. I had a pound of flake from 1944 that had spent decades drying out, so in that particular case l, I didn't want to spritz flakes and tumble them... I surely would have had mummy dust. I carefully laid out small stacks of flakes and slowly rehydrated portions at a time. Slow to dry out, slow to hydrate.. it took a couple days using the damp towel method, but they rehydrated nicely.... after that long though, the tobacco had been compromised. It is always good to have hydration discs for small amounts they work like a charm... sometimes use two or three in a sealed mason jar. pipesmagazine.com/python/pipe-tobacco/pipe-tobacco-rehydration/
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 4, 2017 0:32:48 GMT -5
Peter has given excellent advice, to add to that is this excellent article that adds to the conversation. I had a pound of flake from 1944 that had spent decades drying out, so in that particular case l, I didn't want to spritz flakes and tumble them... I surely would have had mummy dust. I carefully laid out small stacks of flakes and slowly rehydrated portions at a time. Slow to dry out, slow to hydrate.. it took a couple days using the damp towel method, but they rehydrated nicely.... after that long though, the tobacco had been compromised. It is always good to have hydration discs for small amounts they work like a charm... sometimes use two or three in a sealed mason jar. pipesmagazine.com/python/pipe-tobacco/pipe-tobacco-rehydration/Nice guide, Charlie. Thanks. Also, what is your pic from. I laugh just about every time I look at it.
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Post by trailboss on Sept 4, 2017 1:18:53 GMT -5
Jonathan Winters in it's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 1:42:17 GMT -5
While I love the looks of flip bail mason jars they are not the best for long term storage. If you want to use them make sure they are old antique ones and not some knock off jars. They make a white silicone seal that holds up better than red rubber.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 10:18:01 GMT -5
I think flip tops have their place if one desires short to medium range storage and more immediate access than Mason jars provide, say between 3-6 months. I use little ones which will hold a single tin on a regular basis. They allow for a sufficient amount of oxygen to help the tobacco breath fresh out of the tin without excessive drying for a moderate period of time. This process is completely unnecessary if you're going to pop a tin and smoke it in two weeks; however, a little time under glass in a flip top jar has helped many a tobacco on my end.
Use of processed food jars for the same purpose is more controversial and I'm admittedly in the minority on this one. While I wouldn't recommend using anything tomato or garlic based, quesa jars clean up quite easily with a few minutes in boiling water. The lids, which are the primary issue, are not tainted and can be sanitized with a little alcohol to kill any nasties. I've kept tobacco in these out in the work barn for up to two years without issue; however, our climate here is relatively humid.
If that scares you, another suggestion is some food jars will accept the same new lids and rings as Mason jars due to standard thread.
Otherwise, I agree with others here there's no substitute for Mason jars, fresh lids and rings for long tern storage of more substantial amounts of tobacco.
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kraken
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Post by kraken on Sept 4, 2017 13:01:52 GMT -5
I think flip tops have their place if one desires short to medium range storage and more immediate access than Mason jars provide, say between 3-6 months. I use little ones which will hold a single tin on a regular basis. They allow for a sufficient amount of oxygen to help the tobacco breath fresh out of the tin without excessive drying for a moderate period of time. This process is completely unnecessary if you're going to pop a tin and smoke it in two weeks; however, a little time under glass in a flip top jar has helped many a tobacco on my end. Use of processed food jars for the same purpose is more controversial and I'm admittedly in the minority on this one. While I wouldn't recommend using anything tomato or garlic based, quesa jars clean up quite easily with a few minutes in boiling water. The lids, which are the primary issue, are not tainted and can be sanitized with a little alcohol to kill any nasties. I've kept tobacco in these out in the work barn for up to two years without issue; however, our climate here is relatively humid. If that scares you, another suggestion is some food jars will accept the same new lids and rings as Mason jars due to standard thread. Otherwise, I agree with others here there's no substitute for Mason jars, fresh lids and rings for long tern storage of more substantial amounts of tobacco. I've reused honey and jam jars to store tobacco. And the stuff I buy usually uses the same size lid as mason jars. But for long term, I'll try to use new mason jars.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 13:05:02 GMT -5
I think flip tops have their place if one desires short to medium range storage and more immediate access than Mason jars provide, say between 3-6 months. I use little ones which will hold a single tin on a regular basis. They allow for a sufficient amount of oxygen to help the tobacco breath fresh out of the tin without excessive drying for a moderate period of time. This process is completely unnecessary if you're going to pop a tin and smoke it in two weeks; however, a little time under glass in a flip top jar has helped many a tobacco on my end. Use of processed food jars for the same purpose is more controversial and I'm admittedly in the minority on this one. While I wouldn't recommend using anything tomato or garlic based, quesa jars clean up quite easily with a few minutes in boiling water. The lids, which are the primary issue, are not tainted and can be sanitized with a little alcohol to kill any nasties. I've kept tobacco in these out in the work barn for up to two years without issue; however, our climate here is relatively humid. If that scares you, another suggestion is some food jars will accept the same new lids and rings as Mason jars due to standard thread. Otherwise, I agree with others here there's no substitute for Mason jars, fresh lids and rings for long tern storage of more substantial amounts of tobacco. I do this, too. Jam and honey jars, and sanitize lids with alcohol. I've also used coconut oil jars. I've even used an olive jar after swapping out the lid for a mason jar one. I think if you do that, there can be no difference at all between a real mason jar and a pre-used food jar with an identical thread. I've had no problems at all with either kind of lid (except for user error, not getting a good seal) - though I do find that the food jar lids can get really, really tight as aging goes along. I guess it's something to do with creating an anaerobic environment. Not to hijack, but does anyone steam the mason lids shut, or just screw down tight while pressing down the middle part for a good seal?
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kraken
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Post by kraken on Sept 4, 2017 13:40:57 GMT -5
@chico I've used coconut oil jars too. I do not boil my jars, I just screw them on tightly.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Sept 4, 2017 14:46:53 GMT -5
I think flip tops have their place if one desires short to medium range storage and more immediate access than Mason jars provide, say between 3-6 months. I use little ones which will hold a single tin on a regular basis. They allow for a sufficient amount of oxygen to help the tobacco breath fresh out of the tin without excessive drying for a moderate period of time. This process is completely unnecessary if you're going to pop a tin and smoke it in two weeks; however, a little time under glass in a flip top jar has helped many a tobacco on my end. Use of processed food jars for the same purpose is more controversial and I'm admittedly in the minority on this one. While I wouldn't recommend using anything tomato or garlic based, quesa jars clean up quite easily with a few minutes in boiling water. The lids, which are the primary issue, are not tainted and can be sanitized with a little alcohol to kill any nasties. I've kept tobacco in these out in the work barn for up to two years without issue; however, our climate here is relatively humid. If that scares you, another suggestion is some food jars will accept the same new lids and rings as Mason jars due to standard thread. Otherwise, I agree with others here there's no substitute for Mason jars, fresh lids and rings for long tern storage of more substantial amounts of tobacco. Good point. I will probably switch most things over, but keep a couple flip-tops for my daily smokes.
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Post by trailboss on Sept 4, 2017 16:50:34 GMT -5
Never steamed them, and never pressed down the seal, that does make sense though.
There is something about unscrewing the mason ring, prying the disc, and as the seal is broken it launches 4 feet, and your virginias have deeply blackened.... that scent is heavenly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 17:08:03 GMT -5
I have read that excluding air from the container retards aging. That said, vacuum sealing jars is easy if you have a vacuum sealer and attachment for sealing jars. I even have a hand operated vacuum pump for that, from my 'survivalist' days. Don't need to survive much longer though... LOL
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 17:30:28 GMT -5
Never steamed them, and never pressed down the seal, that does make sense though. There is something about unscrewing the mason ring, prying the disc, and as the seal is broken it launches 4 feet, and your virginias have deeply blackened.... that scent is heavenly. I didn't press down the seal properly on one and it got dried out - so you've been lucky!
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Post by trailboss on Sept 4, 2017 17:50:32 GMT -5
Never steamed them, and never pressed down the seal, that does make sense though. There is something about unscrewing the mason ring, prying the disc, and as the seal is broken it launches 4 feet, and your virginias have deeply blackened.... that scent is heavenly. I didn't press down the seal properly on one and it got dried out - so you've been lucky! I just wrench the hell out of the lid, give it a day and try wrenching it again before it heads to the cellar...going forward though I am going to press the disc down, makes sense...this is the first I have ever heard on that advice. I do hear lids going "bing" as the cellaring magic takes place.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 18:37:46 GMT -5
I didn't press down the seal properly on one and it got dried out - so you've been lucky! I just wrench the hell out of the lid, give it a day and try wrenching it again before it heads to the cellar...going forward though I am going to press the disc down, makes sense...this is the first I have ever heard on that advice. I do hear lids going "bing" as the cellaring magic takes place. Agree, if you wait until the next day you can normally get another quarter turn before cellaring. Good technique.
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skaukatt
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Post by skaukatt on Sept 18, 2017 12:48:14 GMT -5
In my opinion the best long term storage can be obtained with Mason (Ball) Jars.
Regarding rehydrating, for me, instead of spraying the tobacco directly, I use G.L. Pease's method of placing a damp towel over a bowl containing the tobacco to be rehydrated. You can find many references regarding this technique via a Google search. Check on the moisture level of the tobacco in a few hours and make a judgement call at that point how much longer you want to keep it under the towel. You will need to dampen the towel again more than likely. This could be an overnight process - not that you need to keep checking it but it depends on how much moisture needs to be reabsorbed - but it has worked wonderfully for me and the tobacco, while it probably does loose some of its original allure, it will still be more than enjoyable.
Good luck!
Lou
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Post by peteguy on Sept 18, 2017 12:53:24 GMT -5
I use those jars for the stuff I have open and am smoking. My cellar has been converted from mason jars to mylar bags with a heat seal. trailboss has seen the results. I am quite happy with it.
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