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Post by Legend Lover on Mar 3, 2018 14:16:06 GMT -5
Ok, I didn't want to hijack a thread on a topic of ugly pipes so I'm starting a new one...
To all pipe makers or anyone in the know. How can there be so much variation in prices for pipes, especially free-hand ones?
In the thread that I referred to, there was a pipe going for $1,200 and some thought it did't look very pretty. I didn't particularly appreciate the shape myself.
But that's the beauty of art - it's subjective. Thankfully, we all have different tastes. What appeals to some doesn't to others. I get that.
What I DON'T get is how a pipe can go for that price? Is the briar extra special? I understand a lot of it is the workmanship (or workwomanship), but, excuse my ignorance, surely one freehand pipe has drilling, sanding, polishing, staining, etc. etc. pretty much to the same level as any other - just different parts of the process focused in different areas of the pipe to give a different shape - but is it not the same 'routine' regardless, and if so, how can the prices vary so much?
Can anyone enlighten this dumbass, please?
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Post by zambini on Mar 3, 2018 14:52:14 GMT -5
Yeah, I can't discern a particular pricing structure for new pipes either outside of some rough guidelines like size, carver's reputation, and material. Maybe those in the know will correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems there's a certain level of hype used in determing prices.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 14:56:21 GMT -5
simple:
carver: Greed
buyer: Elitism
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Post by cigrmaster on Mar 3, 2018 15:00:25 GMT -5
Legend, I don't get it either. I don't understand how a guy who has only been carving half a dozen years at the most all of a sudden begins charging 1200.00 for a pipe. I see people carving even less years and asking 400-600 for lousy blasts. I own 2 pipes from a guy named Ryan Alden. Both pipes were around 300.00 and both are fantastic smokers and have great looking blasts. He has paid his dues yet he keeps his prices reasonable for the quality you get. He is the next Rad Davis in my opinion as Rad made great pipes but kept his prices in the real world. The artisan pipe business is in my opinion completely out of hand. Check out this 4000.00 nose warmer. This pipe is being sold on name alone. I guess he is supposed to be some great carver but in my opinion this is one ugly pipe. www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/new/tao/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=259256If you really want to see some crazy shite, check out this site. pipesart.com/catalog.php?cid=825 |
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Post by Legend Lover on Mar 3, 2018 15:54:02 GMT -5
I'm glad I'm not alone in my bafflement.
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Post by trailboss on Mar 3, 2018 16:07:20 GMT -5
Some pipe makers are content with a forty dollar bottle of scotch.
Others are accustomed to $250 dollar bottles of scotch, and that drives their pricing.
Antique whale tooth on that pipe, and a lesson on sustainable harvesting of whales... I want a fresh whale tooth on my pipe then!
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Post by That Falls Guy on Mar 3, 2018 17:17:15 GMT -5
It's much like Art. If you look at some paintings that are sold, you would wonder how anyone would pay even a dollar for a picture of a soup can, etc. But it goes on all of the time.
I have been both amazed and amused many times at some of the posts here on the Patch (and other Forums as well) from members stating how limited they are financially, yet posting endless pictures of the pipes and tobaccos that they have ordered each month! I must be doing something wrong
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Post by Legend Lover on Mar 3, 2018 18:00:07 GMT -5
It's much like Art. If you look at some paintings that are sold, you would wonder how anyone would pay even a dollar for a picture of a soup can, etc. But it goes on all of the time. I have been both amazed and amused many times at some of the posts here on the Patch (and other Forums as well) from members stating how limited they are financially, yet posting endless pictures of the pipes and tobaccos that they have ordered each month! I must be doing something wrong I do marvel at the investments people make in pipes and tobacco too. We barely break even at the end of the month and it's not like we're on minimum wage. But for those who can afford it, more power to ya. You can't take it with you. |
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Post by zambini on Mar 3, 2018 18:05:41 GMT -5
It's much like Art. If you look at some paintings that are sold, you would wonder how anyone would pay even a dollar for a picture of a soup can, etc. But it goes on all of the time. I have been both amazed and amused many times at some of the posts here on the Patch (and other Forums as well) from members stating how limited they are financially, yet posting endless pictures of the pipes and tobaccos that they have ordered each month! I must be doing something wrong I do marvel at the investments people make in pipes and tobacco too. We barely break even at the end of the month and it's not like we're on minimum wage. But for those who can afford it, more power to ya. You can't take it with you. The benefits of a relatively cheap hobby, I guess. Maybe we should rubberneck car and silverware forums to get some perspective. |
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Post by That Falls Guy on Mar 3, 2018 18:54:06 GMT -5
I have to agree with Legend Lover. If you look at some of the purchases being made on a regular basis, I wouldn't classify this as a relatively cheap hobby. However, for someone making $1500.00 a month as opposed to someone making $5000.00 a month (these figures exemplary), I guess you could call it expensive or relatively cheap!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2018 18:54:08 GMT -5
It's much like Art. If you look at some paintings that are sold, you would wonder how anyone would pay even a dollar for a picture of a soup can, etc. But it goes on all of the time. I have been both amazed and amused many times at some of the posts here on the Patch (and other Forums as well) from members stating how limited they are financially, yet posting endless pictures of the pipes and tobaccos that they have ordered each month! I must be doing something wrong the most recent posts regarding low income got stuff sent to them and haven't come back since. Tight budget here, but I don't moan about it. PAD&TAD are my luxuries . . . . haven't gone to movie, restaurant, fast food etc. in over 10 years. It is a matter of priorities and I recognize mine. |
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Post by zambini on Mar 3, 2018 19:05:17 GMT -5
I have to agree with Legend Lover. If you look at some of the purchases being made on a regular basis, I wouldn't classify this as a relatively cheap hobby. However, for someone making $1500.00 a month as opposed to someone making $5000.00 a month (these figures exemplary), I guess you could call it expensive or relatively cheap! I don't disagree that there is a high-end cost level of the hobby and that there are people who may go overboard (as in any hobby) but this is one hobby you can be a part of for USD 20 up front (1 tin, 1 cob, 1 BiC) and more or less USD 12 a month in replacements. Even with comic books you need USD 15 a month just to follow Batman (3 regular titles at USD 5 each not including the specials) or USD 50 for suscriptions to newspapers and magazines to somewhat follow international affairs! The pricier pipes and cellaring are really an additional expense for who so ever chooses to persue them. |
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Post by That Falls Guy on Mar 3, 2018 19:09:24 GMT -5
'The pricier pipes and cellaring are really an additional expense for who so ever chooses to pursue them'.....'Totally Agree' I guess that I could be one of them!
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Post by cigrmaster on Mar 3, 2018 19:24:53 GMT -5
I figured out in 2012 that if I quit cigarettes I would save 3285.00 a year at 1 1/2 packs a day. Throw that to 20 years and I saved 65,700.00. I built a 20 year cellar of pipe tobacco for approximately 20 grand. I saved myself 45,700 over 20 years so for me it was a no brainer.
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Post by cigrmaster on Mar 3, 2018 19:29:55 GMT -5
I forgot to add my pipe purchases into that equation. I still saved tons of money quitting cigarettes.
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Post by That Falls Guy on Mar 3, 2018 19:30:43 GMT -5
'The pricier pipes and cellaring are really an additional expense for who so ever chooses to pursue them'.....'Totally Agree' I guess that I could be one of them! I misstated this post. Only wish that we could revise our comments here. What I meant to say was not that ' I guess that I could be one of them!', but rather 'I wish that I could be one of them!'. Has a completely different meaning. |
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sablebrush52
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Favorite Pipe: Barling
Favorite Tobacco: whatever is in it
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Post by sablebrush52 on Mar 3, 2018 20:18:53 GMT -5
Ok, I didn't want to hijack a thread on a topic of ugly pipes so I'm starting a new one... To all pipe makers or anyone in the know. How can there be so much variation in prices for pipes, especially free-hand ones? In the thread that I referred to, there was a pipe going for $1,200 and some thought it did't look very pretty. I didn't particularly appreciate the shape myself. But that's the beauty of art - it's subjective. Thankfully, we all have different tastes. What appeals to some doesn't to others. I get that. What I DON'T get is how a pipe can go for that price? Is the briar extra special? I understand a lot of it is the workmanship (or workwomanship), but, excuse my ignorance, surely one freehand pipe has drilling, sanding, polishing, staining, etc. etc. pretty much to the same level as any other - just different parts of the process focused in different areas of the pipe to give a different shape - but is it not the same 'routine' regardless, and if so, how can the prices vary so much? Can anyone enlighten this dumbass, please? First off, the only reason that the pipe in question is worth $1200 is because someone is willing to pay that much for it. Nobody is forced to buy an expensive pipe. From a purely functional standpoint, it's really not necessary to spend a lot of money on a pipe that will smoke well. It's certainly not necessary to spend anywhere near 4 figures. With a machine made pipe, you can get a decently made pipe for a little over $100 bucks, but there will be little hand work involved, because there isn't enough money involved to pay for that. Move up the price point to about $250 and you're heading into the area where there's more hand work, maybe a handmade stem. Move up from that to about $400 and you'll have better materials and better execution, including a comfortable hand made stem. Keep in mind that the stem and bit can involve more work than shaping the bowl. Move up from that and you're paying for even nicer materials and even better execution. But the smoking qualities might not be much better than that $100 pipe, depending on how important the quality of the stem and bit is to you. That last magic inch can make a big difference to many smokers. It's 25% equipment and 75% technique. If an artisan carver puts in 10 to 15 hours making a pipe, what would be a fair hourly rate? How about overhead, cost of materials and equipment? With top end carvers, there is more wastage from unforeseen problems in the briar that come out in the carving process, because they won't sell a flawed pipe. So there's added cost associated with briar blocks that don't work out to the level that that carver wants to maintain. And if the pipe is sold to a dealer, they're going to add their mark up to that price. |
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Post by cigrmaster on Mar 3, 2018 20:46:04 GMT -5
What I have found interesting is a few of the high end carvers like Todd Johnson and Jeff Gracik have now started companies so they can make machine made pipes at much lower price points. It seems as if they have figured out that making 2-3000.00 pipes isn't going to make them as much money as they thought. Now we have Briar Works, Neptune, Icarus and Alan Bros pipe companies, competing with the likes of Savinelli and Peterson.
From what little I have heard, the Briar Works pipes are very good smokers. A friend of mine just picked up a beauty off of EBay. It was brand new and sold for about 75 bucks, much less than the 125.00 original retail price. He says he is very pleased with how it smokes and is as good as many of his higher priced pipes.
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Post by trailboss on Mar 4, 2018 0:12:21 GMT -5
Keep in mind, Cellaring in the USA is quite a bit cheaper than many other countries... I have heard of a $10 tin here costing $50 in other countries.
I have more discretionary income to build my cellar since I ran my kids off... so if you are raising a family, I have been there... the college years were quite draining.
Jesse makes some great points about how and why pipes cost so much... I spent $400 apiece for two pipes that really got to me, doubt I will ever reach that mark again, as although they are great pipes, they wouldn’t be the ones I would pick if I was told I could only keep one.
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Post by herbinedave on Mar 4, 2018 1:08:24 GMT -5
If an unsmoked Bo Nordh appeared people would have no problem paying over $10,000.00 for it even if the dang thing was ugly!
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Post by Dramatwist on Mar 4, 2018 2:29:22 GMT -5
...this is one of those threads where I think to myself: "Damn, I wish I had said that!"
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Post by That Falls Guy on Mar 4, 2018 7:37:30 GMT -5
If an unsmoked Bo Nordh appeared people would have no problem paying over $10,000.00 for it even if the dang thing was ugly! I would Dave! |
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Post by Legend Lover on Mar 4, 2018 9:10:08 GMT -5
Really interesting conversation here.
I agree that it's definitely all about priorities with respect to what we spend our money on. Some spend it on their cars, alcohol, horses... whatever.
As for how different pipes can have different price tags... Thanks Sablebrush (Jesse??) for opening my eyes to some of the differences. I'm still not sure that warrants such extreme variances, but it helps me understand the process and what goes into making a pipe... So thank you.
But when it comes down to it, if I knew that someone would be willing to pay over a grand for a pipe that I made, I'd charge over a grand... If that's the going rate for certain artisan pipes then that's the going rate.
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Post by trailboss on Mar 4, 2018 10:17:59 GMT -5
I don't think anyone would complain much about whatever Jess Chonoschwitz want's to charge for a pipe...he has seemingly endless Asian customers willing to line up and buy everything he produces.....I know I am speaking what others have already said, I think that many balk at some of the newer pipe carvers charging prices approaching long established pipe makers.
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Post by herbinedave on Mar 4, 2018 13:17:09 GMT -5
If an unsmoked Bo Nordh appeared people would have no problem paying over $10,000.00 for it even if the dang thing was ugly! I would Dave! Some one with deep pockets would purchase for how it's stamped! |
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sablebrush52
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Favorite Pipe: Barling
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Post by sablebrush52 on Mar 4, 2018 13:19:55 GMT -5
Jesse is fine.
When dealing with higher end pipes, the costs are not associated with proportionately greater smoking quality. A $30,000 Bo Nordh doesn't smoke 300 times better than a $100 pipe, at least on any objective scale.
Other factors are involved and this is where high end pipe collectors diverge from the mass of pipe smokers. At the high end, the collector is looking for something in addition to basic functionality.
It may be that the collector is looking for artistry in terms of bowl shaping and following the grain. It may be the quality of the grain and the way in which a particular carver uses staining to highlight it. It may be the way that the stem and shank are finished off, the finishing of the airway and attention to detail. It may be the exceptional grace and comfort in the shaping of the stem, button, and slot. This is the idea of a pipe being an aesthetic object in addition to being a functional one. And there are collectors for whom function isn't part of the equation because they don't smoke. They just love pipes as aesthetic objects.
Another factor may be brand myth. Carver "X" is considered "one of", if not "the" finest carver in the world. Owning something so widely coveted is an aphrodisiac to most of us monkeys. That's the basis for billions of dollars spent every year on advertising. And that Power of the Coveted is no less true for pipe collectors. It's also true for tobacco collectors, as we're seeing in the skyrocketing market for vintage and hard-to-find tobaccos.
Clearly, these and other factors, having little to nothing to do with the actual basic functionality of a pipe, play crucial roles in creating the idea of value and worth in the minds and hearts of many pipe collectors. It's an emotional, not a logical, part of the act of collecting. For a collector who sees a pipe that "speaks" to him, and is not suffering from hallucinations, that voice is an emotional response, and if the response is strong enough and the pockets deep enough, then no price is too high.
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Post by cigrmaster on Mar 4, 2018 13:30:58 GMT -5
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Post by Legend Lover on Mar 4, 2018 17:35:37 GMT -5
After watching the video, maybe it comes with its own piano and pianist. |
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