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Post by puffy on Mar 11, 2018 13:51:16 GMT -5
Do you think that some company will continue to produce and market at least the most popular of these blends?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2018 13:55:40 GMT -5
I think we're just going to have to smoke close-matches. That list of Sutliff-McC in the other thread may help.
I suggest everyone stock up on Sutliff and Catsup and blend their own McC
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Mar 11, 2018 14:05:58 GMT -5
Do you think that some company will continue to produce and market at least the most popular of these blends? No. Done. Gone. If someone else could have matched the McNeil's process they would have done it long ago. A large part of what made McClelland products so consistent was the dedicated oversight that their tobaccos got during processing that isn't going to happen elsewhere. |
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Post by cigrmaster on Mar 11, 2018 14:29:28 GMT -5
The only MC I smoke is their Butera Royal Vintage: Dark Stoved, as it is made from lemon Virginia's and not their standard red ones. The flakes that come in that tin are unlike any flake I have ever seen and I have seen plenty. They are a dense rubbery type texture that takes a lot of time to dry. If you try smoking them wet, you are in for a world of relights. None of my other flakes even Samuel Gawith are as tough and leathery as the Butera.
I have no idea how they came upon this way of processing leaf. The Butera is exactly like Dark Star in the way the flakes are made. Both blends have been around a while so there has been plenty of time for others to try copying them. So far I don't believe anyone has come close.
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Post by Darin on Mar 11, 2018 15:10:13 GMT -5
What you're going to see as more blends disappear is "artisan" blenders doing small batches at home.
This is already happening with Snus / Snuff since the ability to order from the EU went away.
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Post by Dramatwist on Mar 12, 2018 6:24:31 GMT -5
...no, I think that all of the McC blends will be gone when they sell out, and that will be the end of it. Nothing lasts forever.
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Post by cappadoc on Mar 12, 2018 19:25:59 GMT -5
...no, I think that all of the McC blends will be gone when they sell out, and that will be the end of it. Nothing lasts forever. ...but the earth and sky. It slips away. And all your money won’t another minute buy. |
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Post by bonanzadriver on Mar 12, 2018 19:42:07 GMT -5
...no, I think that all of the McC blends will be gone when they sell out, and that will be the end of it. Nothing lasts forever. It is with a heavy heart that I must say that I agree with you. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 19:51:17 GMT -5
I actually think the eBay prices will come down. Many may turn to dealers like PipeStud to get a fair, but not overinflated, return.
Like baseball cards, which I don't advise smoking: Back in the Eighties when cards went through the roof businesses were buying pallets of boxes direct from the factory. Topps (1986) increased production by over a third. More since then. The poor bastard companies, which bought the pallets full, are sitting on fairly worthless cards that they will have to pick through one by one to get more than a dollar for.
Canseco and Mattingly Rookies are worth less than a third of what they were worth thirty years ago.
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Post by bonanzadriver on Mar 12, 2018 19:54:27 GMT -5
I actually think the eBay prices will come down. Many may turn to dealers like PipeStud to get a fair, but not overinflated, return. Like baseball cards, which I don't advise smoking: Back in the Eighties when cards went through the roof businesses were buying pallets of boxes direct from the factory. Topps (1986) increased production by over a third. More since then. The poor bastard companies, which bought the pallets full, are sitting on fairly worthless cards that they will have to pick through one by one to get more than a dollar for. Canseco and Mattingly Rookies are worth less than a third of what they were worth thirty years ago. I agree David. Last year, while building up my Esoterica cellar, I pm'd several sellers on ebay, offering them much lower (realistic) than what they were asking on their buy it now pricing. In the end I picked up 1/2 dozen bags and tins at much more reasonable prices than what was initially asked. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2018 20:06:49 GMT -5
Similar to the situation comics in late 90s, too. The bottom just dropped out when the interwebs came along and people realized the stuff they were paying inflated prices for just wasn't rare by any definition.
McClelland is the new Esoterica - at least for now. Funny how 3-4 weeks ago you would have had no problem trading tin-for-tin, and the guys with the McC to trade would've felt like they were getting a great deal.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Mar 13, 2018 1:47:59 GMT -5
I actually think the eBay prices will come down. Many may turn to dealers like PipeStud to get a fair, but not overinflated, return. Like baseball cards, which I don't advise smoking: Back in the Eighties when cards went through the roof businesses were buying pallets of boxes direct from the factory. Topps (1986) increased production by over a third. More since then. The poor bastard companies, which bought the pallets full, are sitting on fairly worthless cards that they will have to pick through one by one to get more than a dollar for. Canseco and Mattingly Rookies are worth less than a third of what they were worth thirty years ago. I agree with you about prices on McClelland. Right now there's a panic going on, and people are taking advantage of that. A blender going out of business is a new and shocking thing for newer smokers. A lot of makers closed up shop in the '70s thru early 2000's, selling their recipes to other blenders. Of course, what's different is that McClelland declined to do that, even though they had several offers for their company. But while there's no more of it, there are literally tons of it in cellars. These blends were produced in huge runs for decades, unlike Esoterica, which dribbles out in relatively small amounts. So prices will likely settle down in a couple of months after buyer demand is satiated and people find alternatives to enjoy. Fast forward a decade and these prices might look like bargains. Or, the market for vintage tobacco may pancake as the number of pipe smokers decreases, and prove to be a passing fad. Who knows? Who cares? I'm happy with what I've cellared. I didn't buy it to speculate, I bought it to smoke. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 12:05:06 GMT -5
My thoughts on this whole thing changes from McC did the right thing to how dare they. There is always an attenuation of a product over time, though some eventually (like Pepsi) go back to an original formula.
If their product was as good as McC thinks, and as many of you think, then denying a really rockin' tobacco to customers now and in the future seems a little hateful to me.
Now for the changing my mind again part: I have seen many mom and pop stores sell out when retiring, promising customers things would remain the same. The new guy comes in thinking he can get new customers by changing things up. The current customers put up with changes and lack of attention for a short time... and go elsewhere.
The bottom line, in the most non-judgmental way I can be, is that an excellent tobacco bites the dust of history.
The bottom question, in the same non-judgmental way, is... was it necessary?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 12:13:00 GMT -5
My thoughts on this whole thing changes from McC did the right thing to how dare they. There is always an attenuation of a product over time, though some eventually (like Pepsi) go back to an original formula. If their product was as good as McC thinks, and as many of you think, then denying a really rockin' tobacco to customers now and in the future seems a little hateful to me. Now for the changing my mind again part: I have seen many mom and pop stores sell out when retiring, promising customers things would remain the same. The new guy comes in thinking he can get new customers by changing things up. The current customers put up with changes and lack of attention for a short time... and go elsewhere. The bottom line, in the most non-judgmental way I can be, is that an excellent tobacco bites the dust of history. The bottom question, in the same non-judgmental way, is... was it necessary? I think you're cycling through a few stages of grief, here. Snap out of it, man!  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 12:16:54 GMT -5
My thoughts on this whole thing changes from McC did the right thing to how dare they. There is always an attenuation of a product over time, though some eventually (like Pepsi) go back to an original formula. If their product was as good as McC thinks, and as many of you think, then denying a really rockin' tobacco to customers now and in the future seems a little hateful to me. Now for the changing my mind again part: I have seen many mom and pop stores sell out when retiring, promising customers things would remain the same. The new guy comes in thinking he can get new customers by changing things up. The current customers put up with changes and lack of attention for a short time... and go elsewhere. The bottom line, in the most non-judgmental way I can be, is that an excellent tobacco bites the dust of history. The bottom question, in the same non-judgmental way, is... was it necessary? I think you're cycling through a few stages of grief, here. Snap out of it, man! Sink me! My heart laid bare! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 18:32:15 GMT -5
...no, I think that all of the McC blends will be gone when they sell out, and that will be the end of it. Nothing lasts forever. ...but the earth and sky. It slips away. And all your money won’t another minute buy. I'm a Kansas fan from way back. It's an appropriate song for Lent as well. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 13, 2018 20:17:20 GMT -5
...but the earth and sky. It slips away. And all your money won’t another minute buy. I'm a Kansas fan from way back. It's an appropriate song for Lent as well. I agree. Music of my youth. Still sounds glorious to my ears. Many musicians I listened to back then, do not. 😣 |
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Post by johnlawitzke on Mar 13, 2018 22:33:19 GMT -5
I actually think the eBay prices will come down. Many may turn to dealers like PipeStud to get a fair, but not overinflated, return. I agree with you about prices on McClelland. Right now there's a panic going on, and people are taking advantage of that. A blender going out of business is a new and shocking thing for newer smokers. A lot of makers closed up shop in the '70s thru early 2000's, selling their recipes to other blenders. Of course, what's different is that McClelland declined to do that, even though they had several offers for their company. But while there's no more of it, there are literally tons of it in cellars. These blends were produced in huge runs for decades, unlike Esoterica, which dribbles out in relatively small amounts. So prices will likely settle down in a couple of months after buyer demand is satiated and people find alternatives to enjoy. Fast forward a decade and these prices might look like bargains. Or, the market for vintage tobacco may pancake as the number of pipe smokers decreases, and prove to be a passing fad. Who knows? Who cares? I'm happy with what I've cellared. I didn't buy it to speculate, I bought it to smoke. Well said Jesse. It it will be good when McC pricing finally reaches a steady state value. Until then, it is going to be hard to value a McC for non-McC trade. It will be interesting to see how long it takes until the market realizes just how much McC will still be readily available on the secondary market for many years. Estate cellars will also factor into availability. Like most pipe smokers, I bought my cellar to smoke. However, someday when we're gone, leftovers will end up on the market. |
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Post by herbinedave on Mar 13, 2018 22:38:05 GMT -5
People are having difficulties trading their hard to get Esoterica blends for McClelland. I imagine it all comes down to who is sitting in the catbird seat!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 0:31:56 GMT -5
People are having difficulties trading their hard to get Esoterica blends for McClelland. I imagine it all comes down to who is sitting in the catbird seat! Yep, I expected at least a few nibbles to my recent WTT post. I guess things will level off eventually. As Jesse wrote, McC blends were produced in the tens of thousands or more. Even though they're discontinued, there are far more out there than there are Esoterica and Germain blends. |
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Post by Dramatwist on Mar 14, 2018 0:35:49 GMT -5
...many excellent tobaccos available other than McClelland, Esoterica, Germain, etc... let's not get all weird about this...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 0:40:32 GMT -5
...many excellent tobaccos available other than McClelland, Esoterica, Germain, etc... let's not get all weird about this... Too late. I mean, you are talking about pipe smokers here! But I totally agree. As much as I enjoy certain blends from these blenders, I'm not going to cry over spilled milk and I'll continue to fully enjoy my Samuel Gawith, Mac Baren, Sutliff, Boswell's, etc. But then again, I'm not gonna trade my Esoterica for SPS. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2018 0:48:56 GMT -5
McClelland have already stated, they will not sell their recipes or knowledge to anyone else, McClelland is closed and we buy what we can and look at other brands moving forward!
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Post by Dramatwist on Mar 14, 2018 1:03:49 GMT -5
McClelland have already stated, they will not sell their recipes or knowledge to anyone else, McClelland is closed and we buy what we can and look at other brands moving forward! ...this is reality... |
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Mar 14, 2018 3:46:09 GMT -5
My thoughts on this whole thing changes from McC did the right thing to how dare they. There is always an attenuation of a product over time, though some eventually (like Pepsi) go back to an original formula. If their product was as good as McC thinks, and as many of you think, then denying a really rockin' tobacco to customers now and in the future seems a little hateful to me. Now for the changing my mind again part: I have seen many mom and pop stores sell out when retiring, promising customers things would remain the same. The new guy comes in thinking he can get new customers by changing things up. The current customers put up with changes and lack of attention for a short time... and go elsewhere. The bottom line, in the most non-judgmental way I can be, is that an excellent tobacco bites the dust of history. The bottom question, in the same non-judgmental way, is... was it necessary? The McNeils thought it was. If they couldn't continue to make the kind of tobacco they had always made, they weren't interested in continuing and certainly weren't interested in allowing someone else to produce what they would consider an ersatz version with the McClelland name on it. Mike McNeil had been complaining about the declining quality of the tobacco leaf they had been seeing for the past several years. It's no secret that a lot of growers have turned to other, more profitable, crops with the demise of federal subsidies, price supports and the auction system. Where once leaf was hand picked when it was ready, while other leaf was left on the plant to reach maturity, cost cutting has given rise to machine harvesting, which results in mixed quality. Tobacco manufacturing is a very labor intensive process. Various cost cutting measures resulted in leaf that the McNeils felt wasn't up to their standard. So they closed up shop. Add to that that Mike McNeil has had serious spinal issues from all of the heavy physical labor, which required major surgery last December. They don't need the money and they aren't selling their baby, which McClelland very much was. |
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Post by peterd-Buffalo Spirit on Mar 14, 2018 6:11:43 GMT -5
...as Jesse stated this issue with quality leaf has been going on for several years...The writing was on the wall for McClelland...so they didn't just "up and quit"...time to move ahead and enjoy the memories...
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Post by gav on Mar 20, 2018 22:05:04 GMT -5
So basically, MCC could no longer get the quality/quantity of their signature red virginia? Was there a specific farm they were sourcing it from? I read there are only a couple of farms still making perique. Wonder what happens when Perique finally disappears or is that just St James Perique?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 23:11:20 GMT -5
...many excellent tobaccos available other than McClelland, Esoterica, Germain, etc... let's not get all weird about this... So very true! Cult is offering some top class tobacco's! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2018 23:12:29 GMT -5
A few more producers will soon fall by the wayside, so best to buy the blends you enjoy the most right now, and find an alternative for the future!
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Post by zambini on Mar 21, 2018 1:00:01 GMT -5
A few more producers will soon fall by the wayside, so best to buy the blends you enjoy the most right now, and find an alternative for the future! Any names in specific? |
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