mrphillips
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 17, 2018 10:12:23 GMT -5
I'm not big on Virginians, but my buddy is and I wanna try to throw something together for him. I tried a mix with a 60% red/orange VA base, with a little burley, little oriental, and an itty-bitty bit of Latakia for color. The thing just about bit my tongue off!
What would be a tobacco I could use to cut the VA tongue bite without compromising the VA flavor that much? Thanks for any info you can send my way.
-MrPhillips
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 10:29:27 GMT -5
I would up the Burley content a tiny bit and lower the Virginia a little. Maybe add some black Cavendish.
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Post by Baboo on Apr 17, 2018 10:42:11 GMT -5
I find that Burley can bite also, maybe even exacerbate the Virginia tongue bite. A nice mild n sweet Cavendish should file down those Va teeth and make for a cooler smoke too.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Apr 17, 2018 10:56:16 GMT -5
I smoke Virginias all the time, straight, Va/Pers, etc, and never experience any issues. Is it tongue bite that you're experiencing or a more general sizzle from the Virginia? Tongue bite is more a matter of smoking technique: too moist tobacco + too rapid cadence = tongue bite, while the mouth sizzle may be more a matter of body chemistry. I love straight red Virginia and can smoke that all day long while there are people who feel like their mouths have been hit by a blowtorch on contact because of their body chemistry. If it's body chemistry, your original blend might work fine for your friend as it is.
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Post by slowroll on Apr 17, 2018 11:35:21 GMT -5
I'm pretty selective about Va tobac. I find it's often harsh also, unless it's outstanding stuff blended from a good house. I don't think the stuff they sell us as blending Va is the best tobac available. I only use it as a low percentage component. Now, the Va buried in Dark Fired blends is another matter...smooth as silk to me. It's probably a Ph thing, maybe why some of us are lataphilia. BTW, I find that perique smooths out some Virginia's. Guess that's why VaPers are popular.
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Post by crapgame on Apr 17, 2018 12:35:31 GMT -5
My body reacts badly to red VA in high doses.. I tend to stay away from.blends with high red content.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 12:39:58 GMT -5
VA bites me less when it's well aged. Burley always bites me.
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mrphillips
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 17, 2018 14:56:46 GMT -5
I smoke Virginias all the time, straight, Va/Pers, etc, and never experience any issues. Is it tongue bite that you're experiencing or a more general sizzle from the Virginia? Tongue bite is more a matter of smoking technique: too moist tobacco + too rapid cadence = tongue bite, while the mouth sizzle may be more a matter of body chemistry. I love straight red Virginia and can smoke that all day long while there are people who feel like their mouths have been hit by a blowtorch on contact because of their body chemistry. If it's body chemistry, your original blend might work fine for your friend as it is. I've read the same. Everyone's different. Maybe I'll just toss my bud a bag and see what he has to say about it. On a slightly related note, how long do you let your mixes sit before indulging? I've had a mix sitting under pressure for a few days and I'm drooling over that might be happening in the jar. If if mellows the VA like another poster said, I'll be happy as a priest in a confessional. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 15:34:01 GMT -5
I let most of mine go at least six months. Some have a few years on them and are quite good. Especially ones that have Virginia and/or Perique as part of the blend. I let all straight Virginias age a while. Sometimes several years.
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Post by zambini on Apr 17, 2018 17:04:18 GMT -5
Have you tried replacing part of the virginias with marylands?
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Post by slowroll on Apr 17, 2018 17:40:56 GMT -5
I let most of mine go at least six months. Some have a few years on them and are quite good. Especially ones that have Virginia and/or Perique as part of the blend. I let all straight Virginias age a while. Sometimes several years. This is fine of course when one wants the absolute best in aged characteristics. However, to determine if a blend is any good, I find that a week under moderate pressure will meld the flavors. Then, if it's good you can blend and age. I also find no difference if I pressure it just in a vacuum bag, or in a mechanical press. 'Course, I'm just trying to meld the flavors, not make perique  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2018 17:44:33 GMT -5
Steve, I saw a hydraulic press at a local pawnshop last week for $80. I think it was a 12 ton press. Could that work for pressing tobacco?
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Post by slowroll on Apr 17, 2018 17:55:55 GMT -5
Steve, I saw a hydraulic press at a local pawnshop last week for $80. I think it was a 12 ton press. Could that work for pressing tobacco? 12 tons for $80? Grab it. It'll work great, don't use all the pressure or you'll get a cake about the density of a brick and just as easy to smoke. The criteria I use is to compress enough to reduce volume of tobacco to about a quarter or third of the hand pack into the press box. |
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mrphillips
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 18, 2018 20:44:56 GMT -5
Have you tried replacing part of the virginias with marylands? Since I'm still new to a lot of the tobacco's used, I'm not sure what "marylands" are. Are they a less tangy VA? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2018 21:27:49 GMT -5
I love straight red Virginia and can smoke that all day long while there are people who feel like their mouths have been hit by a blowtorch on contact because of their body chemistry. If it's body chemistry, your original blend might work fine for your friend as it is. I love straight red Virginia, but can only smoke it if I puff very slowly and even then I get some mouth sizzle. In my case it's technique and chemistry. I recommend that MrPhillips add some unsweetened black Cavendish to the Virginia and puff very slowly. The Cavendish should tame it a bit and give it some added body as well. Unsweetened Cavendish will change the flavor less than the sweetened type and puffing slowly is the way to go no matter what you're smoking. Cheers!  |
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Post by slowroll on Apr 18, 2018 22:16:26 GMT -5
Adding perique often helps I find as well, besides putting in a little fig taste.
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Post by zambini on Apr 18, 2018 22:46:42 GMT -5
Have you tried replacing part of the virginias with marylands? Since I'm still new to a lot of the tobacco's used, I'm not sure what "marylands" are. Are they a less tangy VA? My understanding is that it's softer in flavor alá burley and less sugar than virginia. It's usually used to mellow harsh tobacco. |
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mrphillips
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I just can't trust a man who doesn't have a vice.
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 19, 2018 15:54:03 GMT -5
Thank you. I'm putting in an order now for some white burley and maryland. I'm eager to see how they affect my home-balkan blend.
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Post by slowroll on Apr 19, 2018 16:19:30 GMT -5
There's another thing that can smooth out a harsh Va. Put in a tight jar, then bake in an oven for about 4 hours at 180 deg. F. Makes it very like aging it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 13:59:56 GMT -5
Steve, I saw a hydraulic press at a local pawnshop last week for $80. I think it was a 12 ton press. Could that work for pressing tobacco? 12 tons for $80? Grab it. It'll work great, don't use all the pressure or you'll get a cake about the density of a brick and just as easy to smoke. The criteria I use is to compress enough to reduce volume of tobacco to about a quarter or third of the hand pack into the press box. I will probably haggle them down to $60 or so. Thanks. |
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Post by Darin on Apr 21, 2018 17:21:32 GMT -5
Adding perique often helps I find as well, besides putting in a little fig taste.
+1 ... Perique is the answer.
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mrphillips
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 23, 2018 16:18:09 GMT -5
I love straight red Virginia and can smoke that all day long while there are people who feel like their mouths have been hit by a blowtorch on contact because of their body chemistry. If it's body chemistry, your original blend might work fine for your friend as it is. I love straight red Virginia, but can only smoke it if I puff very slowly and even then I get some mouth sizzle. In my case it's technique and chemistry. I recommend that MrPhillips add some unsweetened black Cavendish to the Virginia and puff very slowly. The Cavendish should tame it a bit and give it some added body as well. Unsweetened Cavendish will change the flavor less than the sweetened type and puffing slowly is the way to go no matter what you're smoking. Cheers! I combined some green river black cavendish, perique and Land VA to further experiment with eliminating tongue bite, and I really enjoyed the combination. I didn't have any unsweetened cavendish, but I certainly don't mind the mellowing flavor the sweetened Cav gives it. Lane VA - 2 parts G.R. Black Cavendish - 1 parts Perique - 1 parts |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 0:38:39 GMT -5
I combined some green river black cavendish, perique and Land VA to further experiment with eliminating tongue bite, and I really enjoyed the combination. I didn't have any unsweetened cavendish, but I certainly don't mind the mellowing flavor the sweetened Cav gives it. Lane VA - 2 parts G.R. Black Cavendish - 1 parts Perique - 1 parts Sounds like a good mix, MP. Cheers! |
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Post by bonanzadriver on Apr 24, 2018 12:29:02 GMT -5
Despite what many folks think, tongue bite is more often a ph / chemistry vs technique or temperature thing.
There are certain blends, no matter how lightly I smoke em or how cool, will actually leave blisters in my mouth. Several blends nip me just a bit.
In an article on another forum, a couple of years back, it was recommended that you try different beverages when smoking blends that bite. One recommendation was red wine. Others suggest apple juice or orange juice.
I've found that a glass of pinot noir will noticeably reduce the experience of tongue bite.
After all of that, I've come to the conclusion that I will simply stick to the blends that do not bite me, there are hundreds to choose from, and enjoy the tobacco vs battle it.
just my $0.02
ymmv
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mrphillips
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 24, 2018 19:45:37 GMT -5
Great point. I've been looking for an excuse to drink some red wine. I've been reading that a lot of people on this forum enjoy milk with their briar. I can see that being a soothing palate cleanser between Virginia-drags.
I recently shared another blend that was heavy on oriental with a friend, and she couldn't even get through a quarter of the bowl because it burned her so bad.
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Post by bonanzadriver on Apr 24, 2018 20:08:57 GMT -5
Great point. I've been looking for an excuse to drink some red wine. I've been reading that a lot of people on this forum enjoy milk with their briar. I can see that being a soothing palate cleanser between Virginia-drags. I recently shared another blend that was heavy on oriental with a friend, and she couldn't even get through a quarter of the bowl because it burned her so bad.This leads me to subscribe to the ph / chemistry vs the cadence / technique mindset. I for instance have yet to experience tongue bite from English, Balkan or Oriental blends. VaPer's on the other hand.... :-( I doubt that I am smoking these blends any different than the others. |
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mrphillips
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 24, 2018 21:33:08 GMT -5
Red/Orange VA is the only thing to bite me so far. If I were a wiser man, I'm sure I could tread the murky waters of ph-chemistry and its affect from person to person, but as it stands, I fear I may only enjoy the knowledge that such a thing exists.
If Latakia ever starts to bite me...it better kill me. Are you familiar of chemistry/bite changing over time? I know this can happen with food flavors - ie, children are more affected by bitter tastes (the evolutionary reasons are actually pretty interesting) - but I haven't ever heard/researched anything similar happening with tobacco. Seems interesting.
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Post by zambini on Apr 24, 2018 22:17:26 GMT -5
Red/Orange VA is the only thing to bite me so far. If I were a wiser man, I'm sure I could tread the murky waters of ph-chemistry and its affect from person to person, but as it stands, I fear I may only enjoy the knowledge that such a thing exists. If Latakia ever starts to bite me...it better kill me. Are you familiar of chemistry/bite changing over time? I know this can happen with food flavors - ie, children are more affected by bitter tastes (the evolutionary reasons are actually pretty interesting) - but I haven't ever heard/researched anything similar happening with tobacco. Seems interesting. @cosmicbobo can tell you about how he made some personal changes that altered his mouth's ph for the better, if I remember correctly. |
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Post by slowroll on Apr 25, 2018 9:42:01 GMT -5
Red/Orange VA is the only thing to bite me so far. If I were a wiser man, I'm sure I could tread the murky waters of ph-chemistry and its affect from person to person, but as it stands, I fear I may only enjoy the knowledge that such a thing exists. If Latakia ever starts to bite me...it better kill me. Are you familiar of chemistry/bite changing over time? I know this can happen with food flavors - ie, children are more affected by bitter tastes (the evolutionary reasons are actually pretty interesting) - but I haven't ever heard/researched anything similar happening with tobacco. Seems interesting. I sympathize -- I've been smoking latakia blends for 40 years pretty near exclusively, just don't like much else. My chemistry hasn't changed yet, so you have hope. |
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mrphillips
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I just can't trust a man who doesn't have a vice.
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Post by mrphillips on Apr 26, 2018 20:59:54 GMT -5
You're a saint for keeping my spirits so high.
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