gav
Junior Member
Posts: 387
Location:
|
Post by gav on May 2, 2018 10:08:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by papipeguy on May 2, 2018 10:21:03 GMT -5
I wish Mike and Mary a long and happy retirement.
|
|
|
|
Post by mwps70 on May 2, 2018 10:26:45 GMT -5
Great article and they went out the way they wanted to. Too many blends of theirs that I never got to try. I will savor the ones I have.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2018 10:29:44 GMT -5
Good article gav and thank you for sharing with us. A better explanation for the reasons the McNeils closed down their business... |
|
|
|
Post by zambini on May 2, 2018 11:27:51 GMT -5
These lines should be quoted in high school civics classes:
“For 40 years we had the benefit of government and the support of the Department of Agriculture [USDA],” says Mary. “They ran the auctions. They established the grading system. They supported us just like any other agricultural product. We had what they called ‘the government pool.’
"As Mary tells it, the government’s exit from subsidizing and partnering in the cultivation of tobacco, in addition to its obvious agenda to discourage smoking, led to such a reduction of quality leaf tobacco they simply could no longer produce the level of product they would put their name on."
|
|
sablebrush52
Full Member
Posts: 903
Favorite Pipe: Barling
Favorite Tobacco: whatever is in it
Location:
|
Post by sablebrush52 on May 2, 2018 12:26:35 GMT -5
These lines should be quoted in high school civics classes: “For 40 years we had the benefit of government and the support of the Department of Agriculture [USDA],” says Mary. “They ran the auctions. They established the grading system. They supported us just like any other agricultural product. We had what they called ‘the government pool.’ "As Mary tells it, the government’s exit from subsidizing and partnering in the cultivation of tobacco, in addition to its obvious agenda to discourage smoking, led to such a reduction of quality leaf tobacco they simply could no longer produce the level of product they would put their name on." The question of farm subsidies can be argued either way. It was originally Depression Era legislation that was designed to help farmers get through difficult times without losing their farms. Proponents against the continuation of subsidies held that such aid was now mostly going to the benefit of large agribusiness corporations and no longer serving the people it was designed to help, and there's plenty of evidence to support this. There might have been other ways to deal with the issue, like raising prices on tobacco so that farmers continued to grow it. It had been suggested to the McNeils that they should treat their blends as a premium tobacco and price it accordingly, which would have paid for the labor involved to continue to produce a premium aged Virginia product. They decided against doing that. As has been seen since they closed their doors, people are willing to pay twice or more what McClelland tobacco tobaccos were priced at. Had they decided differently they might still be producing their blends, even if it was a smaller amount. |
|
daveincollamer
New Member
Posts: 63
First Name: Dave
Favorite Pipe: Peterson Supreme
Location:
|
Post by daveincollamer on May 2, 2018 12:42:35 GMT -5
These lines should be quoted in high school civics classes: “For 40 years we had the benefit of government and the support of the Department of Agriculture [USDA],” says Mary. “They ran the auctions. They established the grading system. They supported us just like any other agricultural product. We had what they called ‘the government pool.’ "As Mary tells it, the government’s exit from subsidizing and partnering in the cultivation of tobacco, in addition to its obvious agenda to discourage smoking, led to such a reduction of quality leaf tobacco they simply could no longer produce the level of product they would put their name on." It is amazing how the government can take a well running industry and destroy it. This should be mentioned in Civics class also. |
|
|
|
Post by zambini on May 2, 2018 13:02:26 GMT -5
The question of farm subsidies can be argued either way. It was originally Depression Era legislation that was designed to help farmers get through difficult times without losing their farms. Proponents against the continuation of subsidies held that such aid was now mostly going to the benefit of large agribusiness corporations and no longer serving the people it was designed to help, and there's plenty of evidence to support this. There might have been other ways to deal with the issue, like raising prices on tobacco so that farmers continued to grow it. It had been suggested to the McNeils that they should treat their blends as a premium tobacco and price it accordingly, which would have paid for the labor involved to continue to produce a premium aged Virginia product. They decided against doing that. As has been seen since they closed their doors, people are willing to pay twice or more what McClelland tobacco tobaccos were priced at. Had they decided differently they might still be producing their blends, even if it was a smaller amount. I fully agree with you on the second point, manufacturers are underpricing some blends. With regards to the first, I agree that land consolidation by vertically integrated agribusiness consortiums undermined the spirit of the pertinent legislation. That the US has decided to favor land consolidation and vertically integrated agribusiness consortiums as opposed to family farms doesn't mean that the system created by the legislation wasn't/isn't highly successful. If anything, land consolidation and vertically integrated agribusiness consortiums seems, to my mind at least, more a result of policies consciously chosen after WWII than an economic fait acompli. |
|
|
|
Post by Baboo on May 2, 2018 13:04:21 GMT -5
These lines should be quoted in high school civics classes: “For 40 years we had the benefit of government and the support of the Department of Agriculture [USDA],” says Mary. “They ran the auctions. They established the grading system. They supported us just like any other agricultural product. We had what they called ‘the government pool.’ "As Mary tells it, the government’s exit from subsidizing and partnering in the cultivation of tobacco, in addition to its obvious agenda to discourage smoking, led to such a reduction of quality leaf tobacco they simply could no longer produce the level of product they would put their name on." The question of farm subsidies can be argued either way. It was originally Depression Era legislation that was designed to help farmers get through difficult times without losing their farms. Proponents against the continuation of subsidies held that such aid was now mostly going to the benefit of large agribusiness corporations and no longer serving the people it was designed to help, and there's plenty of evidence to support this. There might have been other ways to deal with the issue, like raising prices on tobacco so that farmers continued to grow it. It had been suggested to the McNeils that they should treat their blends as a premium tobacco and price it accordingly, which would have paid for the labor involved to continue to produce a premium aged Virginia product. They decided against doing that. As has been seen since they closed their doors, people are willing to pay twice or more what McClelland tobacco tobaccos were priced at. Had they decided differently they might still be producing their blends, even if it was a smaller amount. Even if they had raised the wholesale and retail costs of each tin by a few dollars, would that have been enough to save the tobacco fields AND cover FDA proving costs/toil & trouble for each blend? Perhaps had the McNiel's been younger with more years ahead than behind... who knows? |
|
|
|
Post by zambini on May 2, 2018 13:08:02 GMT -5
These lines should be quoted in high school civics classes: “For 40 years we had the benefit of government and the support of the Department of Agriculture [USDA],” says Mary. “They ran the auctions. They established the grading system. They supported us just like any other agricultural product. We had what they called ‘the government pool.’ "As Mary tells it, the government’s exit from subsidizing and partnering in the cultivation of tobacco, in addition to its obvious agenda to discourage smoking, led to such a reduction of quality leaf tobacco they simply could no longer produce the level of product they would put their name on." It is amazing how the government can take a well running industry and destroy it. This should be mentioned in Civics class also. A case of the government giveth and the government taketh away? Agree with you that good administration and regulation of industry is a must, never too little and never too much always in the interest of the public and the individual. |
|
daveincollamer
New Member
Posts: 63
First Name: Dave
Favorite Pipe: Peterson Supreme
Location:
|
Post by daveincollamer on May 2, 2018 13:29:32 GMT -5
It is amazing how the government can take a well running industry and destroy it. This should be mentioned in Civics class also. A case of the government giveth and the government taketh away? Agree with you that good administration and regulation of industry is a must, never too little and never too much always in the interest of the public and the individual. I cant recall any industry with government involvement, that didn't suffer terribly, I fully believe in letting the marketplace regulate an industry. If you have terrible/unsafe products, you won't be in business very long. My two pennies.............. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2018 13:42:03 GMT -5
A case of the government giveth and the government taketh away? Agree with you that good administration and regulation of industry is a must, never too little and never too much always in the interest of the public and the individual. I cant recall any industry with government involvement, that didn't suffer terribly, I fully believe in letting the marketplace regulate an industry. If you have terrible/unsafe products, you won't be in business very long. My two pennies.............. USPS has been around a long time. |
|
|
|
Post by Dramatwist on May 2, 2018 15:00:47 GMT -5
...just read this last night... |
|
|
|
Post by zambini on May 2, 2018 15:01:50 GMT -5
A case of the government giveth and the government taketh away? Agree with you that good administration and regulation of industry is a must, never too little and never too much always in the interest of the public and the individual. I cant recall any industry with government involvement, that didn't suffer terribly, I fully believe in letting the marketplace regulate an industry. If you have terrible/unsafe products, you won't be in business very long. My two pennies.............. No safety standards on anything? No criminal liablity on knowingly harmful products like arsenic in baby food? No consumer refunds on knowingly defective products or false advertising? Surely consumers would require perfect knowledge of every product on the market and every businessman out there for them to be able to parse quality and safety. What if just anyone could steal your ideas or your name/image? Why buy any untested product when it could very well be a death trap and you not having any legal recourse (the company could always argue that no standards exist to qualify the safety or workings of the product)? I'm sorry, it's just your perspective raises a lot of questions to my mind but maybe I'm misunderstanding it. |
|
|
|
Post by Dramatwist on May 2, 2018 15:04:30 GMT -5
These lines should be quoted in high school civics classes: “For 40 years we had the benefit of government and the support of the Department of Agriculture [USDA],” says Mary. “They ran the auctions. They established the grading system. They supported us just like any other agricultural product. We had what they called ‘the government pool.’ "As Mary tells it, the government’s exit from subsidizing and partnering in the cultivation of tobacco, in addition to its obvious agenda to discourage smoking, led to such a reduction of quality leaf tobacco they simply could no longer produce the level of product they would put their name on." The question of farm subsidies can be argued either way. It was originally Depression Era legislation that was designed to help farmers get through difficult times without losing their farms. Proponents against the continuation of subsidies held that such aid was now mostly going to the benefit of large agribusiness corporations and no longer serving the people it was designed to help, and there's plenty of evidence to support this. There might have been other ways to deal with the issue, like raising prices on tobacco so that farmers continued to grow it. It had been suggested to the McNeils that they should treat their blends as a premium tobacco and price it accordingly, which would have paid for the labor involved to continue to produce a premium aged Virginia product. They decided against doing that. As has been seen since they closed their doors, people are willing to pay twice or more what McClelland tobacco tobaccos were priced at. Had they decided differently they might still be producing their blends, even if it was a smaller amount. I agree with the logic of the last paragraph. While I don't wish to pay *more*, I still end up spending premium prices for what I want that is no longer produced. |
|
|
|
Post by Dramatwist on May 2, 2018 15:07:19 GMT -5
Government involvement in markets is a fact of life.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on May 2, 2018 15:47:09 GMT -5
Good luck to the McClelland family in their retirement!
|
|
|
|
Post by Legend Lover on May 2, 2018 16:35:22 GMT -5
Government involvement in markets is a fact of life. Maybe it's a question of how much involvement is desired/necessary... |
|
|
|
Post by Dramatwist on May 2, 2018 18:35:59 GMT -5
Government involvement in markets is a fact of life. Maybe it's a question of how much involvement is desired/necessary... ...well, if we could get more than 40% to vote in America... |
|
|
|
Post by Legend Lover on May 3, 2018 1:28:23 GMT -5
Maybe it's a question of how much involvement is desired/necessary... ...well, if we could get more than 40% to vote in America... I didn't realise it was that low! |
|
|
|
Post by herbinedave on May 3, 2018 2:07:59 GMT -5
I spoke with Mike McNeil at last years GKCPS and the writing was on the wall with what he said. I wish nothing but the best for Mike and his wife in their much deserved retirement.
We can talk of the What Ifs and Whys till we are blue in the face. McClelland is no more and we must move on. Not saying we don't remember, but in a few years they will be mentioned like all of the other great tobacco blenders that are no more.
I have more then enough of some and not nearly enough of others. I didn't go nuts on stocking up other then 2 blends. I hope to see Mike and Mary in KC when I head ou there for the pipe show in September!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 2:54:02 GMT -5
Thanks for posting this link, Gav. ...well, if we could get more than 40% to vote in America... I didn't realise it was that low! Hard to believe, but sadly it is. |
|
sablebrush52
Full Member
Posts: 903
Favorite Pipe: Barling
Favorite Tobacco: whatever is in it
Location:
|
Post by sablebrush52 on May 3, 2018 11:19:44 GMT -5
Government involvement in markets is a fact of life. If it isn't government it's some other force, or group of forces attempting to exert influence that will inure to their benefit. "Free markets" are and have always been, a myth. But, like the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny, it's a popular and much loved myth. |
|
|
|
Post by Dramatwist on May 3, 2018 13:22:14 GMT -5
Government involvement in markets is a fact of life. If it isn't government it's some other force, or group of forces attempting to exert influence that will inure to their benefit. "Free markets" are and have always been, a myth. But, like the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny, it's a popular and much loved myth. ...eloquent and succinct as always... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Location:
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 14:08:49 GMT -5
I spoke with Mike McNeil at last years GKCPS and the writing was on the wall with what he said. I wish nothing but the best for Mike and his wife in their much deserved retirement. We can talk of the What Ifs and Whys till we are blue in the face. McClelland is no more and we must move on. Not saying we don't remember, but in a few years they will be mentioned like all of the other great tobacco blenders that are no more. I have more then enough of some and not nearly enough of others. I didn't go nuts on stocking up other then 2 blends. I hope to see Mike and Mary in KC when I head ou there for the pipe show in September! Shall will go as one of the "great" blenders of all time!  |
|
|
|
Post by trailboss on May 3, 2018 16:42:13 GMT -5
Well written story, thank you for the post!
|
|
