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Post by papipeguy on May 5, 2016 10:08:17 GMT -5
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Post by sparks on May 5, 2016 10:27:44 GMT -5
Yikes... bad news indeed.
Boys & Girls, get out your wallets and start ordering.
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Post by trailboss on May 5, 2016 13:41:58 GMT -5
Thank you President Obama...not to get political, he deserves our thanks. I heard on the radio...no more free samples, and any pipe blends made after 2007 are subject to FDA approval...Do Standard Tobacco products get the shaft? Viprati? 287 pages: s3.amazonaws.com/public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2016-10685.pdfI quickly glanced at it and saw an exclusion for smoking accessories, and things like pipe pouches aren't being regulated...I did not see a waiver for pipes though...The "but" part leads me to believe that pipes are now regulated also.... Long nite, gotta get to bed. |
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Post by puffy on May 5, 2016 14:45:10 GMT -5
Without getting political (I Hope) I just want to say that in my opinion the FDA allows drugs on the market with side effects that cause far more problems than pipe tobacco does.
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Post by papipeguy on May 5, 2016 14:52:57 GMT -5
Rest assured that more of tis will be coming down between now and Jan. 20, 2017. This was not unexpected but now that it's here there will be a lot of scurrying. This actually benefits the big tobacco companies because they will see smaller ones fold their tents.
More strange days ahead for us.
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Post by crapgame on May 5, 2016 15:00:26 GMT -5
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Post by sparks on May 9, 2016 5:34:15 GMT -5
I'm surprised there is not more discussion on this one. Maybe I have scared everyone into thinking comment would automatically be political in nature.
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Post by fadingdaylight on May 9, 2016 6:36:53 GMT -5
I'm surprised there is not more discussion on this one. Maybe I have scared everyone into thinking comment would automatically be political in nature. Yes. We are all hiding from your wrath. Lol. Seriously though, what good will it do us? The government has made a move that will accost all of our wallets, and we have no choice but to sit idly by with our hands bound and witness the agonizing spectacle. All the outrage in the world won't change this. It has, sadly, been a long time coming. As I told my wife, I hate it, but I will just have to make sacrifices elsewhere, so that I can continue to enjoy my pipes, despite the FDA's unconstitutional actions. I wrote a paper for my politics class a few months back discussion the Controlled Substances Act of 79. There is no constitutional authority noted in the Act. The Constitution clearly states that anything not covered within The Constitution itself is left to the States to decide on. Pissed? Yeah. Willing to suck it up and pay the cost despite the rage? Yep. |
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Post by papipeguy on May 9, 2016 7:22:09 GMT -5
Reading the new regulations is a daunting task. I have no doubt that the big pipe tobacco blenders like Lane, Sutliff, STG, McClelland and C&D along with others are spending time with their legal councils poring over the document.
From what I've read even small B&M's that make their own house blends are now defined as producers. Just how they will be policed is unclear.
The majority of the new regulations deals with vape liquids and their supposed health issues. Flavored cigars were always a favorite target. The small vape shops are toast. The costs associated with FDA approval are too high for any of them to comply.
It almost seems like pipe tobacco was added because they can.
Arguments were presented to the FDA for reconsideration and were unanimously rejected. The FDA sees this as a one way street, all going their way.
I suspect that it will be some time before we hear comments from the big guys.
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Post by trailboss on May 9, 2016 8:05:20 GMT -5
I wish we had an NRA type organization for smokers.
The fix was in before they ever asked for comments, it is just another grab at power through regulation. It has been on warp drive for eight years and has affected virtually every segment of our economy.
I agree with John, reading is a daunting task, and in such a wordy document you can hide a lot of devils in the details.
Pissed!
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Post by sparks on May 9, 2016 8:23:49 GMT -5
I wish we had an NRA type organization for smokers. The sad part is that we do, Charlie. The IPCPR is supposed to be the lobbying group for us and the cigar smokers. They have spearheaded the campaign against regulations like this, as well as tax laws, etc. The thing is, they certainly don't seem to have the muscle or influence that the cigarette manufacturers have with their lobbying efforts. Though many seem to claim that we should all stick together and a unified "tobacco" front, I'm of the opinion that the RYO industry seriously f'ed us when they started labeling their product as pipe tobacco. I appreciate that it was done in an effort to survive and find a loop hole, but now they have gone and jacked it up for us all. |
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Post by trailboss on May 9, 2016 9:04:38 GMT -5
True....and of course the cigarette industry handed the gas and matches to the government by their ridiculous behavior.
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Post by username on May 9, 2016 11:07:24 GMT -5
I have been reading the 499 page briefing it was e cigs that boned us.I'm 199 pages in and everything so far refers to e cigs or in fda parlance ends electronic nicotine delivery systems. Barely talks about pipes except when defining a tobacco product. I agree the RYO is going to bone us on taxes eventually. But this appears to be that they had to include everything when the main target was e cigs.
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Post by papipeguy on May 9, 2016 11:07:35 GMT -5
This is all about power and the FDA will grab as much as they can before the next inauguration.
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Post by sparks on May 9, 2016 11:43:35 GMT -5
I think you nailed it username , and as John said... the eCig industry is toast. Everything there is post 2007 and the whole attraction is all the fun flavors you can get. Stay tuned, you will see a lot of vape shops shutting down soon. |
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Post by trailboss on May 9, 2016 12:59:19 GMT -5
Hopefully we will see a lot of young people realize that they don't have to take this crap, and they revolt.
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Post by Baboo on May 9, 2016 15:02:00 GMT -5
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what this will do to our importation orders from overseas tobacconists like Motzek, HU, Dan Tobacco, GQT, Peter Heinrich, etc.? Since they aren't regulated as we will soon be, will their products fail to pass through Customs and into our hands nevertheless? Should I start stocking up NOW in advance of the impending Apocalypse?
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Post by sparks on May 9, 2016 15:05:54 GMT -5
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what this will do to our importation orders from overseas tobacconists Most of those countries have already had to submit to similar draconian regulations on their side. They have purity laws, massive health warnings on packaging and taxes that would make most politicians pop a stiffy. I don't think that this will impact the ability to obtain tobacco from over there, but you never know. The FDA is going to have enough of their hands trying to implement this. In my opinion that's the only light at the end of the tunnel. Trying to implement and enforce this might prove to be like watching an episode of the Keystone Cops. Will be interesting to see. |
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Post by Baboo on May 9, 2016 15:44:22 GMT -5
Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what this will do to our importation orders from overseas tobacconists Most of those countries have already had to submit to similar draconian regulations on their side. They have purity laws, massive health warnings on packaging and taxes that would make most politicians pop a stiffy. I don't think that this will impact the ability to obtain tobacco from over there, but you never know. The FDA is going to have enough of their hands trying to implement this. In my opinion that's the only light at the end of the tunnel. Trying to implement and enforce this might prove to be like watching an episode of the Keystone Cops. Will be interesting to see. Now that you've got me thinking about it with some of your thoughtful considerations... Although those countries have imposed their own form of draconian regulations, I tend to doubt that the FDA, in all of it's self-grandiosity, would concede to any regulatory oversight other than that of its own creation. I do hope you're right though that they will be so overwhelmed with their own self-created bloat and ultimately end up turning a blind self-poked eye to our favorite imports. Stocking up now may not be a bad precautionary strategy, and if the weather cools and sanity is restored, I can always sell off my surplus for cost or better to pipe enthusiasts old and new. |
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Post by crapgame on May 9, 2016 18:18:56 GMT -5
I would hate to see my beloved frog morton become the joe camel of pipe tobacco..I mean you never know kids may want to wear tophats and sit on casks..
all kidding aside if some pipe blends would be "not allowed" for some reason or another would blenders be allowed to sell the "blend" unblended..?? just an assortment of the blend in seperate pouches and the buyer takes it upon himself/herself to dunp the bags into a mixing bowl ..mix..then place in a jar?
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Post by trailboss on May 9, 2016 20:33:14 GMT -5
I guess that p&c's make your own blend, and their hodgepodge/ floor sweeping or whatever they call it, will no longer be an option.
These things always hurt the poorest among us.
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buroak
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Post by buroak on May 9, 2016 23:36:28 GMT -5
From the sounds of it, unless a tobacco is formally exported to the US, you will no longer be able to order it direct from a UK or European retailer.
How vigorously do the IPCPR defend the pipe and pipe tobacco industries? They seem much more focused on cigars.
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Post by antb on May 10, 2016 2:51:51 GMT -5
Do not fret. Some of us will become rum runners and Cuban cigar smugglers again  Is there a need to worry about more than just the probable financial implications? |
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Post by sparks on May 10, 2016 5:25:16 GMT -5
How vigorously do the IPCPR defend the pipe and pipe tobacco industries? They seem much more focused on cigars. I don't disagree. I would venture to say that in part, that is our own fault. We relied on others to fight the fight for us and there has always been a level of complacency with the attitude of "it will never happen to us." Just my two cents. I have been signing petitions and writing letters to my reps since the rumblings started back with the passing of the SCHIP act, which had major implications on the tobacco industry. Even back then I remember people saying, "nah, they will just go after cigarettes." |
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buroak
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Post by buroak on May 10, 2016 12:43:09 GMT -5
I think the mindsets of pipe smokers have probably exhibited a bimodal distribution. One group clusters around denial, the other resignation. The tremendous anger I see exhibited across the pipe smoking fora now mostly reflects bitter resignation to defeat within the institutional framework, with a fringe group calling for extrainstitutional solutions. They would not write a letter (or even make a phone call) years ago, but now they are ready to heft a torch and a pitchfork.
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buroak
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Post by buroak on May 10, 2016 14:11:02 GMT -5
I have contacted the offices of my Congressman and both of my state's Senators. Based on what I heard, and not surprisingly, these new regulations do not even appear to be anywhere on their radar screens. That strikes me as good and bad news. First the bad: they don't care and neither do the vast majorities of their constituents. The potentially good news (probably a grey lining in black clouds at best) is that their views may be more malleable in the absence of voluminous constituent input.
Please contact your member of Congress and your Senators. Remind them that you care and are watching. If relevant, also remind them of the businesses in your state that will be affected. For me, that meant telling them about the McNeils and John Dengler Tobacconist.
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Post by just ol ed on May 10, 2016 20:54:02 GMT -5
thanx. Already mailed letters to our respective reps on the subject.
Ed Duncan, Batavia, NY
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Post by antb on May 11, 2016 3:06:59 GMT -5
Do not fret. Some of us will become rum runners and Cuban cigar smugglers again Is there a need to worry about more than just the probable financial implications? Thanks to those who care and take action....any action. I do however repeat my question above, to those more knowledgeable members: Do we have to worry about more than just the probable financial implications in the form of higher prices? |
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Post by sparks on May 11, 2016 7:12:49 GMT -5
antb, I would guess there is no doubt you will see prices jump. Maybe not right away, but at some point. There will need to be someway to makeup the losses from tobacco lines that have to be eliminated, not to mention going through any of the processes the FDA is putting in place.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on May 11, 2016 21:48:00 GMT -5
antb , I would guess there is no doubt you will see prices jump. Maybe not right away, but at some point. There will need to be someway to makeup the losses from tobacco lines that have to be eliminated, not to mention going through any of the processes the FDA is putting in place. Prices might jump on popular blends that were created after 2007, or there might be dumping to get the stock off the shelves before it gets caught up regulatory bullshit. Flip a coin. Buy what you can, while you can. Forget about another pipe and buy what you like to smoke while you can. As for Motzek, etc, these will fall under the category of a controlled substance and you can pretty much say sayonara to all of it. Looking forward to the availability of Cuban cigars? Forget about it. The curious aspect is that Big Tobacco may have been pushing for this as a way to wipe out the competition. This wrinkle has been discussed on other forums. We all knew this was coming and many of us have been stocking up. As for those who put away hundreds and even thousands of pounds of the stuff, far from being seen as nut jobs, they're looking like smart investors who will profit handsomely from the reduced supply. |
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