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Post by jeffd on Jun 21, 2018 9:52:55 GMT -5
I have been trying to put words to the wonderful experience I have with C&D Billy Budd Blonde, and some other blends to varying extents.
And last night it dawned on me. Its the taste I get from really really good Chinese food, when I am very very hungry. Or the taste in Thai food, when you have the yellow curry, the taste behind the heat. Or sometimes in a sauce or gravy. Or when you add Parmesan cheese to a tomato sauce. Or when real malt is added to a milkshake. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Its that tongue watering crazy savory back of the tongue whole mouth fulfilling taste.
I ran to Google and did some research. Not salt or sweet or bitter or sour. Its called umami, and is considered by some chefs to be the fifth flavor. The flavor imparted by MSG.
Now, as an aside, apparently MSG is not in any way bad for you, unless you are specifically allergic. Somebody years back claimed this and that and an anti MSG firestorm broke out here in the US, to the extent that most folks here only have heard of MSG from the no-MSG days.
I don't know if it can officially be called a real flavor, (Heck, I think Pluto is a planet!), but I read that many chefs do consider it that way,and I guess some scientists have identified taste receptors specific to umami on the tongue. Receptors that ignore salt, sweet, bitter, and sour but light up to umami.
So, all you aficionados who are able use words to parse the flavors of smoke, here is another word for your descriptive arsenal. Umami. I, at least, will know what you mean.
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Post by Legend Lover on Jun 21, 2018 10:00:16 GMT -5
I used to have a pot of umami seasoning that I put on steak etc. I also used to have sachets of MSG that my dad brought back from Brazil - they were awesome. They made everything taste that much better (although, MSG can make people's stomachs dodgy).
I've heard a lot of this Billy Budd Blonde...I'm curious.
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Post by jeffd on Jun 21, 2018 10:10:05 GMT -5
In this country at least, MSG is relatively easy to get. The most popular brand I have found is Aji-No-Moto. Also I think it was in that Adolph's Meat Tenderizer that was so popular many years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 10:13:50 GMT -5
I have been trying to put words to the wonderful experience I have with C&D Billy Budd Blonde, and some other blends to varying extents. And last night it dawned on me. Its the taste I get from really really good Chinese food, when I am very very hungry. Or the taste in Thai food, when you have the yellow curry, the taste behind the heat. Or sometimes in a sauce or gravy. Or when you add Parmesan cheese to a tomato sauce. Its that tongue watering crazy savory back of the tongue whole mouth fulfilling taste. I ran to Google and did some research. Not salt or sweet or bitter or sour. Its called umami, and is considered by some chefs to be the fifth flavor. The flavor imparted by MSG. Now, as an aside, apparently MSG is not in any way bad for you, unless you are specifically allergic. Somebody years back claimed this and that and an anti MSG firestorm broke out here in the US, to the extent that most folks here only have heard of MSG from the no-MSG days. I don't know if it can officially be called a real flavor, (Heck, I think Pluto is a planet!), but I read that many chefs do consider it that way,and I guess some scientists have identified taste receptors specific to umami on the tongue. Receptors that ignore salt, sweet, bitter, and sour but light up to umami. So, all you aficionados who are able use words to parse the flavors of smoke, here is another word for your descriptive arsenal. Umami. I, at least, will know what you mean. Okay now, it’s your fault!!! Yes I’m a BIG Billy Budd fan and have enough good tobacco to last the rest of my life! In the past 3 days I’ve read your threads on Billy Budd Blonde, guess what I just did....because you raved about this blend I didn’t order 4.oz or even 8.oz, I ordered a full pound. Just what I need is another blend too also fall in love with......”what’s a pipe and tobacco lover suppose to do “!!! Appreciate reading your threads 👍👍👍
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Post by Legend Lover on Jun 21, 2018 10:18:57 GMT -5
In this country at least, MSG is relatively easy to get. The most popular brand I have found is Aji-No-Moto. Also I think it was in that Adolph's Meat Tenderizer that was so popular many years ago. it's easy to get here too, although the best place is at a Chinese wholesale market. You can get 5l tubs of the stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 10:21:23 GMT -5
In this country at least, MSG is relatively easy to get. The most popular brand I have found is Aji-No-Moto. Also I think it was in that Adolph's Meat Tenderizer that was so popular many years ago. Correct.......that’s basically what Adolph's Meat Tenderizer consists of.....MSG. Have you ever wondered why your sometimes bloated after eating Chinese food then hungry once again in less than an hour.....it’s the MSG....also known as a flavor enhancer. Just keep repeating to yourself....MonoSodium-Glutamate. I stay clear of MSG...really plays havoc on my stomach!
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Post by jeffd on Jun 21, 2018 10:22:40 GMT -5
Okay now, it’s your fault!!! Yes I’m a BIG Billy Budd fan and have enough good tobacco to last the rest of my life! In the past 3 days I’ve read your threads on Billy Budd Blonde, guess what I just did....because you raved about this blend I didn’t order 4.oz or even 8.oz, I ordered a full pound. Just what I need is another blend too also fall in love with......”what’s a pipe and tobacco lover suppose to do “!!! Appreciate reading your threads 👍👍👍 I don't know that you will go crazy with it like I have, but I don't think you will be disappointed. And tell you what. If you think you are not going to finish that pound, I will take it off your hands at cost. It lacks the latakia that Billy Budd has, so its really a different blend. I think they should call regular Billy Budd something like Billy Budd Blue. So you could get Blue or Blonde.
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Post by jeffd on Jun 21, 2018 10:27:18 GMT -5
So I would like to know from those with a more sophisticated palate than mine, is it umami that I taste in a pipe of BBB?
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Post by slowroll on Jun 21, 2018 10:33:35 GMT -5
Re MSG, one has to be careful with it. A lot people are allergic to it. I for one get a raging migraine if if I get just a little of it. My wife gets bloated. Can't eat Chinese or Japanese food as a result. If one tends to get a headache when hungry, MSG will exacerbate that, because the physiology behind its ability to enhance flavor is that it stimulates hunger. When you're hungry everything tastes better. BTW, that's why people tend to get hungry soon after a Chinese restaurant dinner. Definitely an inconvenient allergy. When I traveled a lot on business I always had to order a fruit salad meal from the airlines; it was the only food that ddidn't have MSG in it. When I was in Asia, I had to subsist on rice and beer when out to dinner.
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Post by jeffd on Jun 21, 2018 10:45:14 GMT -5
I am fortunate that I have no food allergies. I did get sick as a dog once when I added too much fresh ground ginger. I read that MSG has a narrow range where it is effective, in proportion to salt, etc. etc., so even if one has no problem it is not necessarily easy to cook with.
Now of course the umami taste in the tobacco comes from the tobacco. Just like the sweetness and the spices one detects in some Virginias and Periques.
So if one has problems with MSG, get your umami hit from a great tobacco!
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Post by Darin on Jun 21, 2018 11:26:58 GMT -5
One of my last snuff creations was based upon this flavor and I called it "Savory". The base sauce contained double fermented soy and black molasses among others to try and capture that Umami.
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Post by haebar on Jun 21, 2018 11:29:58 GMT -5
I'd never heard of this Umami. Thanks for enlightening me.
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Post by gav on Jun 21, 2018 11:53:31 GMT -5
exotique has a meaty taste to me.
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Post by Darin on Jun 21, 2018 11:57:37 GMT -5
Black XX Twist also has some of that flavor.
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Post by jeffd on Jun 21, 2018 12:06:04 GMT -5
Now that I have identified that flavor, and folks can use it to describe tobacco, I think it will be easier for me to read a description and decide if I want to try it.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jun 21, 2018 16:08:49 GMT -5
Glutamates occur naturally in MANY foods. Sounds sauce, mushrooms, meat, beer, cheese, broccoli, and the list goes on. All MSG is is an isolation of glutamate into a simple salt. Not like, table salt. Salts exist in many forms. Yes, it's a flavor enhancer. Some ding dong back in the 60s didn't feel well, and blamed it in the Chinese food he ate. Hence, there was a junk science study done, with absolutely NO reproducible results - studies done on into the 90s, but no body cares about that. What to blame for whatever ails you? That awful sounding CHEMICAL, "Monosodium Glutamate". Same nonsense with nitrites and nitrates. Gimme my pink salt!
Edit: umami = good
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Post by slowroll on Jun 21, 2018 16:53:02 GMT -5
Glutamates occur naturally in MANY foods. Sounds sauce, mushrooms, meat, beer, cheese, broccoli, and the list goes on. All MSG is is an isolation of glutamate into a simple salt. Not like, table salt. Salts exist in many forms. Yes, it's a flavor enhancer. Some ding dong back in the 60s didn't feel well, and blamed it in the Chinese food he ate. Hence, there was a junk science study done, with absolutely NO reproducible results - studies done on into the 90s, but no body cares about that. What to blame for whatever ails you? That awful sounding CHEMICAL, "Monosodium Glutamate". Same nonsense with nitrites and nitrates. Gimme my pink salt! Edit: umami = good I beg your pardon. I am sceptical of many so called scientific claims also, because they usually come from some sort of food nazis or otherwise agenda driven group. However, I have been to many headache specialists over the years and seen many studies related specifically to migraines and there is no doubt whatever that MSG is a migraine trigger, among other things. I have coped with migraines for 40 years. When I eliminated MSG, migraines reduced dramatically. If I get MSG in food, migraine in about an hour and a half. BTW, MSG isn't unami, it enhances the unami that exists in a food. MSG has no flavor of its own. Some people are not effected by MSG, some are.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 17:01:13 GMT -5
MSG before MSG: I believe the original Adolph's was all MSG in the sixties. Says it has none now. Stuff gives me headaches
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Post by jeffd on Jun 21, 2018 17:05:51 GMT -5
The beauty is there is no MSG in the tobacco.
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Post by slowroll on Jun 21, 2018 17:17:07 GMT -5
MSG before MSG: I believe the original Adolph's was all MSG in the sixties. Says it has none now. Stuff gives me headaches I don't think Adolph's was 100% MSG, but a lot. The one that was 100% MSG was Accent Flavor enhancer. Unfortunately, Lowry's seasoned salt had a lot in it too. I liked that stuff on fried eggs until I figured out why I was getting a headache after breakfast.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jun 21, 2018 17:22:54 GMT -5
Glutamates occur naturally in MANY foods. Sounds sauce, mushrooms, meat, beer, cheese, broccoli, and the list goes on. All MSG is is an isolation of glutamate into a simple salt. Not like, table salt. Salts exist in many forms. Yes, it's a flavor enhancer. Some ding dong back in the 60s didn't feel well, and blamed it in the Chinese food he ate. Hence, there was a junk science study done, with absolutely NO reproducible results - studies done on into the 90s, but no body cares about that. What to blame for whatever ails you? That awful sounding CHEMICAL, "Monosodium Glutamate". Same nonsense with nitrites and nitrates. Gimme my pink salt! Edit: umami = good I beg your pardon. I am sceptical of many so called scientific claims also, because they usually come from some sort of food nazis or otherwise agenda driven group. However, I have been to many headache specialists over the years and seen many studies related specifically to migraines and there is no doubt whatever that MSG is a migraine trigger, among other things. I have coped with migraines for 40 years. When I eliminated MSG, migraines reduced dramatically. If I get MSG in food, migraine in about an hour and a half. BTW, MSG isn't unami, it enhances the unami that exists in a food. MSG has no flavor of its own. Some people are not effected by MSG, some are. I know MSG isn't umami. I did say that umami = good, which is unrelated, because trying to stay on topic. I'm just going by what I've read, and my constant skepticism of all the "things that are bad for you". One day coffee is a life saver, the next it's a carcinogen. Ad nauseum. The FDA did do an independent study in the 90s that concluded that a very small fraction of the population MAY be sensitive to large amounts of MSG if eaten in an empty stomach. I'm not discrediting your experience, just parroting studies I've read about. No offense intended.
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Post by Legend Lover on Jun 21, 2018 17:29:16 GMT -5
I think someone said somewhere that smoking tobacco was bad for you. That rumour didn't take off though.
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Post by slowroll on Jun 21, 2018 17:48:35 GMT -5
Cramptholomew , none taken. Here though, is a case where (again) the FDA wizards are wrong. Turns out migraine intensity is proportional to the amount of MSG. I too have been sick of the food/chemical nazis for decades. Used to argue with my wife about all the fried eggs I eat. I told her that God gave us a perfect food in eggs, can't be bad. Then the wizards finally admitted eggs were ok. Imagine that? But, I guess my father would have lived to be a hundred if he didn't have bacon and eggs every day, drink or smoke. He only lived to 99.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jun 21, 2018 17:50:40 GMT -5
I think someone said somewhere that smoking tobacco was bad for you. That rumour didn't take off though. Yeah, I heard that, but I'm gonna trust what the doctors say.
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Post by slowroll on Jun 21, 2018 18:01:12 GMT -5
That brings back memories. When I was in the USMC I smoked Camels. A lot.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jun 21, 2018 18:50:28 GMT -5
That brings back memories. When I was in the USMC I smoked Camels. A lot. I was not in the USMC, but I also smoked Camels. A lot. Had a daughter. That changes a man. Had to give up the sweet raisin taste of choice Turkish and domestic Tobaccos, that bring you full smooth smoking satisfaction with Camel quality.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 19:29:48 GMT -5
MSG before MSG: I believe the original Adolph's was all MSG in the sixties. Says it has none now. Stuff gives me headaches I don't think Adolph's was 100% MSG, but a lot. The one that was 100% MSG was Accent Flavor enhancer. Unfortunately, Lowry's seasoned salt had a lot in it too. I liked that stuff on fried eggs until I figured out why I was getting a headache after breakfast. Bingo!
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Post by haebar on Jun 21, 2018 19:38:13 GMT -5
Those packages of Ramen noodles that I used to eat so often in college came with a foil packet of seasoning salts that had MSG in it. If you used the whole packet it was overwhelming.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jun 21, 2018 19:56:02 GMT -5
Those packages of Ramen noodles that I used to eat so often in college came with a foil packet of seasoning salts that had MSG in it. If you used the whole packet it was overwhelming. I used to eat those packets straight.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2018 20:32:21 GMT -5
Those packages of Ramen noodles that I used to eat so often in college came with a foil packet of seasoning salts that had MSG in it. If you used the whole packet it was overwhelming. Also over the top with the taste of eating pure sodium. I was never able to eat that, oh thank God.
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