professorthroway
Junior Member
Posts: 136 
First Name: Steve
Favorite Pipe: Hilson Straight Billiard
Favorite Tobacco: G&H Dark Bird's Eye
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Post by professorthroway on Sept 5, 2018 21:05:53 GMT -5
So a while back I was sitting in a lounge with a new pipe who complained that no matter what tobacco he had it tasted like smoke. He could never get any of the flavors he read about on tins or in reviews. I hit on an idea (probably not the first person to try it) and it seemed to work. I have given the advice out a few times to new pipers on forums and have gotten good feedback, so I thought I would share here.
1) Of course it will taste like smoke. You are tasting burning leaves. That is to be expected. Remember the first time you had whiskey, did you taste anything beyond the burn. What about beer, probably not much beyond bitter hops.
2) What you are looking for is flavor notes. This is a hard concept to get across. VAs can be described yeasty, bready, earthy, or grasslike. It would be gross if they actually tasted like that. It would be awful if burley actually tasted like bakers chocolate. Sometimes in wine or whiskey tastings things are broken out into primary, secondary, and tertiary flavors.
a) primary flavors are the flavors of your main ingredients in our case smoke and the difference between primary blending components e.g. latakia tastes different than burley.
b) Secondary flavors are elements of the tobaccos. Is the burley more cocoa or nutty? Is the perique fruity or spicy? Are the orientals buttery or sour?
c) Tertiary flavors are the things you need to focus to get. e.g. African VAs often have a floral quality. Some people flock to English blends with creosote like flavors (yes it is a good thing!). I think G&H dark fired has flavors like high mineral content well water. It took me a long time to pick that up and put a description to what I was tasting. Tertiary flavors are ephemeral and sometime fleeting like overtones in music.
3) Learn to taste the primary flavors first. As an experiment take two pipes (cobs work just fine), load one with an English mixture and another with a codger burley (I like Carter Hall for this experiment). Now light both and take a few puff from one then a few puffs from the other. You will taste smoke, but you will also taste a difference between the two. Focus on what is different. One thing that should pop out is the latakia. That smokey, incensey, thing going on. Ask yourself what you taste with the burley, do you get something slightly bitter?
4) Once you get a difference you don't need to do them directly side by side anymore. But try a bunch of different blends and smoke different styles back to back. Focus on what comes out and what is different about this blend. Soon you will be getting the secondary flavors.
5) Now the best way to develop the palate is to try a bunch of blends. Go to your favorite online retailer and buy as many 1oz samples as you can afford.
6) The cool thing is once you start down this road, you naturally get better at it. Tasting tertiary flavors comes with experience, but the more different blends you smoke it will develop on its own.
7) Take notes. Force yourself to describe what you are tasting.
Anyway that is my $0.02. Everyone develops their tastebuds in a different way. If you are new this might give you a jump start.
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 5, 2018 21:18:27 GMT -5
Excellent post, Steve!
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Post by roadsdiverged on Sept 5, 2018 21:26:41 GMT -5
Makes complete sense to me. I'm about 4 1/2 months fresh. I've smoked a lot of different blends in that short amount of time. But, because of that, I can taste what I'm smoking. As I spend more time with each blend I can pick up a little here and a little there. It also helped getting some blends that were more forward/straight blends. Once I tasted them plain, or a large portion of the mix, it makes it easier to pick the flavor out when they're not as pronounced.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Sept 5, 2018 21:27:03 GMT -5
Fantastic post, sir. Especially buying small quantities of many blends. That in itself has helped me find what I like, by tasting the difference between blends - especially blends in the same family. Still working on the differences in similar English/Balkan blends, but they're starting to make themselves known.
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cgvt
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First Name: Jim
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Post by cgvt on Sept 5, 2018 21:31:03 GMT -5
I have learned that I don't actually taste the smoke much. I taste the residual flavors that the smoke leaves. That is where I look for and find the nuances.
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Post by stilllernin on Sept 5, 2018 21:31:16 GMT -5
Good pointers, a good retro inhale usually helps, even a good cigerete has a chocolatey note to it.
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Post by McWiggins on Sept 5, 2018 21:40:20 GMT -5
A big one for me has been to treat my tobacco like BBQ, low and slow. The faster I smoke the hotter it is and less the flavors I taste, just smoke. By taking my time, the temps stay low and the flavors come out to play.  |
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Post by LSUTigersFan on Sept 5, 2018 21:41:27 GMT -5
 So, you're saying I should buy a bunch of cobs and tobacco blends to try? OK, you are a professor
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 21:44:00 GMT -5
Great reading and explanations.......thanks for posting. Good read for many members 👌👍👍
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Post by Pistol Pete 1911 on Sept 5, 2018 22:10:18 GMT -5
Awesome post I saved it to my desktop
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Post by Darin on Sept 5, 2018 22:11:24 GMT -5
Since approximately 80% of taste comes from smell one must use the retro-hale, or "snork", to get the nuances. Same goes for wine, coffee or any other seriously tasted goods.
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flybypipe
Full Member
Posts: 547
Favorite Pipe: Anything from MM
Favorite Tobacco: SPC Yakima Valley
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Post by flybypipe on Sept 5, 2018 22:12:39 GMT -5
Excellent post. I’ve been wondering how people “find” the flavors they talk about in their reviews. You’ve outlined a logical way to start the learning process. I’m looking forward to getting started!
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Post by Cramptholomew on Sept 5, 2018 22:38:56 GMT -5
Since approximately 80% of taste comes from smell one must use the retro-hale, or "snork", to get the nuances. Same goes for wine, coffee or any other seriously tasted goods. Very true. I retrohale almost the whole bowl, most times. It was the first thing I learned that really helped me "taste" what I was smoking. |
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professorthroway
Junior Member
Posts: 136
First Name: Steve
Favorite Pipe: Hilson Straight Billiard
Favorite Tobacco: G&H Dark Bird's Eye
Location:
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Post by professorthroway on Sept 5, 2018 22:43:35 GMT -5
Since approximately 80% of taste comes from smell one must use the retro-hale, or "snork", to get the nuances. Same goes for wine, coffee or any other seriously tasted goods. I completely agree. I thought about including a blurb on the retrohale but decided to keep it as totally a beginner guide. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2018 1:27:42 GMT -5
I'm not a beginner but find this really useful. Thanks for the great post. |
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sablebrush52
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Posts: 903
Favorite Pipe: Barling
Favorite Tobacco: whatever is in it
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 6, 2018 1:56:17 GMT -5
The idea of tasting different blends in alternating sips is a good one. It helps you become aware of the differences in what you're tasting. What you're tasting is as much infused steam as much as anything else. It's not so much what is burning as what is simmering around the cherry that carries the flavors.
What I advise a new pipe smoker is to dry down their tobacco. Almost all tobaccos are packed with excess moisture, and that excess moisture masks the flavors in the blend.
Generally I find that drying down the tobacco so that it is just shy of bone dry imparts the most clear and vibrant flavors. Just shy of bone dry means that the tobacco feels dry when squeezed, no sense of moisture rising to the surface while being squeezed, but still slightly pliant even if the ends are getting crispy.
Dry it down more than you think you should. See how that works. Try it with a bit more moisture and see how that works. Eventually you will find the sweet spots for the various blends that you like to smoke.
Pack it looser than you think it should be, at first. You can always increase the density. But the draw should feel effortless. Most of the time I pack so that the tobacco is denser at the top of the fill.
Puff only to get it started, then just sip, like you're sipping scotch. Sip slowly so that the tobacco is kept barely simmering, just at the edge of going out. If it does go out it's no big deal, just relight. Let the tobacco ease out through your nose and focus on the flavors.
Keep that bowl just barely simmering, slowly taking a sip every now and then. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how many notes you taste, and it won't taste like smoke.
It may take a little practice to get the combination to work, but eventually it will come together for you and you will do this without thinking. All you will be doing is tasting.
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Roxus
New Member
Posts: 13
First Name: Cory
Favorite Pipe: Custom Poker by Moonshine Pipe Co
Favorite Tobacco: Rattray's Exotic Passion
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Post by Roxus on Sept 6, 2018 2:03:34 GMT -5
This definitely makes sense and gives me an excuse to make a large purchase of several different tobaccos tomorrow haha
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 6, 2018 2:12:38 GMT -5
The idea of tasting different blends in alternating sips is a good one. It helps you become aware of the differences in what you're tasting. What you're tasting is as much infused steam as much as anything else. It's not so much what is burning as what is simmering around the cherry that carries the flavors. What I advise a new pipe smoker is to dry down their tobacco. Almost all tobaccos are packed with excess moisture, and that excess moisture masks the flavors in the blend. Generally I find that drying down the tobacco so that it is just shy of bone dry imparts the most clear and vibrant flavors. Just shy of bone dry means that the tobacco feels dry when squeezed, no sense of moisture rising to the surface while being squeezed, but still slightly pliant even if the ends are getting crispy. Dry it down more than you think you should. See how that works. Try it with a bit more moisture and see how that works. Eventually you will find the sweet spots for the various blends that you like to smoke. Pack it looser than you think it should be, at first. You can always increase the density. But the draw should feel effortless. Most of the time I pack so that the tobacco is denser at the top of the fill. Puff only to get it started, then just sip, like you're sipping scotch. Sip slowly so that the tobacco is kept barely simmering, just at the edge of going out. If it does go out it's no big deal, just relight. Let the tobacco ease out through your nose and focus on the flavors. Keep that bowl just barely simmering, slowly taking a sip every now and then. You'll be pleasantly surprised at how many notes you taste, and it won't taste like smoke. It may take a little practice to get the combination to work, but eventually it will come together for you and you will do this without thinking. All you will be doing is tasting. Damn... sablebrush52 knows what he's talking about. Well said, sir. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 6, 2018 8:24:56 GMT -5
This is great stuff, since all I can taste is smoke or campfire smoke, or in the case of Cult, Blood Red Moon, cherry smoke. I'm going to take all my legends and weave them together like panpipes... HA, pan pipes - I never noticed that. And Roxus, welcome to the forum. Say hello in the 'introduce yourself' section. |
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Post by slowroll on Sept 6, 2018 12:35:18 GMT -5
I have to say that everything said above is great advice for all, IMHO. I usually sip for a while on my pipes, and pull like a steam engine for a while (that s why I like chimneys ) . Certainly more flavor sipping, but oh, the satisfaction from a gale of smoke! |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 6, 2018 13:36:14 GMT -5
I have to say that everything said above is great advice for all, IMHO. I usually sip for a while on my pipes, and pull like a steam engine for a while (that s why I like chimneys ) . Certainly more flavor sipping, but oh, the satisfaction from a gale of smoke! And you're contributing to society too by creating a lovely room-note. That said, since you're a lataholic I guess society isn't to enamoured. |
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landonspop
New Member
Don't take me wrong, I have a dry, twisted, and sarcastic sense of humor.
Posts: 56
First Name: Rick
Favorite Pipe: Still looking.
Favorite Tobacco: Black Vanilla
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Post by landonspop on Sept 23, 2019 14:01:35 GMT -5
This is exactly a question I had. I wish it tasted like the aroma I get from the container. I started with something on the mild side, but was thinking I might learn with something full of flavor to see if I could taste it. I am using a corn cob pipe, will I get the full flavor using this?
As a youth I dabbled in the cherry flavors and thought they tasted sweet, to my memory.
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Post by adui on Sept 23, 2019 23:58:13 GMT -5
Awesome post. From the perspective of this newcomer to the hobby, it is exactly the approach I have been trying. Though Im not sure what Retrohale is, so I'm looking that up!
Point of my post is, your explanation tells me I am not missing anything, or rather I am right to assume I will learn not to miss anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 0:27:48 GMT -5
Awesome post. From the perspective of this newcomer to the hobby, it is exactly the approach I have been trying. Though Im not sure what Retrohale is, so I'm looking that up! Point of my post is, your explanation tells me I am not missing anything, or rather I am right to assume I will learn not to miss anything. It is the drawing and blowing of smoke through your nose. Some believe it gives you the truest taste of what your smoking and an added nic hit. It's a personal choice, neither right nor wrong. You seem to be progressing fine, plus you have the good counsel of your pipe club. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 24, 2019 2:14:58 GMT -5
This is exactly a question I had. I wish it tasted like the aroma I get from the container. I started with something on the mild side, but was thinking I might learn with something full of flavor to see if I could taste it. I am using a corn cob pipe, will I get the full flavor using this? As a youth I dabbled in the cherry flavors and thought they tasted sweet, to my memory. it was a big shock to me. Even when smelling the smoke of another pipe smoker, when I smoke the same stuff myself I get a totally different experience. I still can't really taste anything, but I let a tiny bit of exhaled smoke go up my nose. That makes the experience enjoyable to me. |
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landonspop
New Member
Don't take me wrong, I have a dry, twisted, and sarcastic sense of humor.
Posts: 56
First Name: Rick
Favorite Pipe: Still looking.
Favorite Tobacco: Black Vanilla
Location:
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Post by landonspop on Sept 24, 2019 22:32:50 GMT -5
Something I learned tonight was, my cob was getting hot to hold, so I packed as tight as I could. Not only did the pipe cool down but I actually started tasting a little tobacco instead of smoke. I inhaled slowly through nose and exhaled through nose. I blew from mouth every 3rd puff.
My new approach will be pack tight and loosen if needed. I think I have been packing to loose.
I was following the 1/2 rule, where you fill loose, pack to 1/2, fill again and pack to 3/4 and then pack some on top of that as tight as possible.
I am also happy that I am getting to smoke without a lot of relights.
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Post by Butch Cassidy on Sept 25, 2019 7:33:54 GMT -5
Good Post...….
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Post by peteguy on Sept 25, 2019 18:13:53 GMT -5
New smokers - IT WILL GET EASIER. You will learn if you have packed a hair to tight or loose, if the tobacco is drier or wetter than normal etc. You will learn to adjust your "puffing" accordingly, tamp a bit more, etc. Just hang in there.
I remember my grand father just taking a pinch, loading and lighting in literally 5 - 10 seconds. Amazing really. I do not know what he tasted but he sure enjoyed his pipes.
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Post by Baboo on Sept 25, 2019 18:30:19 GMT -5
New smokers - IT WILL GET EASIER. You will learn if you have packed a hair to tight or loose, if the tobacco is drier or wetter than normal etc. You will learn to adjust your "puffing" accordingly, tamp a bit more, etc. Just hang in there. I remember my grand father just taking a pinch, loading and lighting in literally 5 - 10 seconds. Amazing really. I do not know what he tasted but he sure enjoyed his pipes. Posilutly absatively!!! After decades of experience it only takes me seconds to get my smoke underway and puffing perfectly... and don't stress if some smokes need relights - it's all part of the process and enjoyment |
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Post by scrooge on Sept 26, 2019 4:57:08 GMT -5
Slow is key. More flavors
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