Screaming Jazz
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Post by Screaming Jazz on Sept 7, 2018 15:34:23 GMT -5
This is a question that I've pondered on for a while. I've seen a lot of people say keep it in the tin. I've also seen a few people very vocally saying that Virginias needed air to ferment and so a jar is best. They also talk about the possibility of the fermentation popping the seal of the tin after a long time. What are everyone thought? Have you noticed a difference between jar aged Virginia's and tin aged Virginia's? Which contributes to fermentation better?
Thanks so much
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 7, 2018 15:35:47 GMT -5
Jar. Tins can be unreliable, especially the squarish ones...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 15:41:51 GMT -5
The round tins I leave alone unless I notice them swell drastically in a short period of time. Square tins I jar most of the time. So, I can not chose either of the top choices.
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 7, 2018 15:52:39 GMT -5
Did you mean to write 'ting' in the title?
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Post by monbla256 on Sept 7, 2018 15:57:42 GMT -5
The round tins I leave alone unless I notice them swell drastically in a short period of time. Square tins I jar most of the time. So, I can not chose either of the top choices. This for me as well.  |
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Screaming Jazz
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Enjoying a peaceful night
Posts: 247
Favorite Pipe: Tsuge Sandblasted Bent Billiard
Favorite Tobacco: HH Vintage Syrian
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Post by Screaming Jazz on Sept 7, 2018 16:05:14 GMT -5
Did you mean to write 'ting' in the title? Haha no. I'll fix it now. Thanks there the heads up |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 7, 2018 16:09:35 GMT -5
Did you mean to write 'ting' in the title? Haha no. I'll fix it now. Thanks there the heads up I was going to fix it for you, but I didn't want to in case it was on purpose and you were being down with the kidz. |
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 7, 2018 16:10:05 GMT -5
I admit, I am attracted to the appearance of tins on the shelf... but I know from experience that tins are unreliable in the long term...
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Post by AJ on Sept 7, 2018 16:12:20 GMT -5
Jar. Tins can be unreliable, especially the squarish ones... This^^^^^^^ +1. AJ |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 16:14:54 GMT -5
I can't vote because I honestly believe there's a difference in tins. McClelland/McCranie type tins were different than others. Let's be clear - THEY WERE NOT VACUUM SEALED. That's a total myth.
That having been stated, I have Mac Baren Va #1 purchased and jarred from 2006. It's far superior to a 2011 tin I recently popped. It's both milder and naturally sweeter. Perhaps it was the difference in age but I doubt it.
Jarring helped this one greatly IMHO.
I'm still not going to go into panic mode and jar all my square tins. Low percentage play with little return on investment; furthermore, you could go to a pipe show and unload tins for your money. It's worthless for anything except trading with forum members once you jar it...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 16:16:18 GMT -5
I admit, I am attracted to the appearance of tins on the shelf... but I know from experience that tins are unreliable in the long term... I had a bad run from 2011 of Solani ABF square tin failure. ALL from that year and thru 2014 have been jarred. One tin from 2011 was as crispy as bacon. Luckily I did a slow rehydration that turned out well. I believe that’s why some of the last batch of tinned ABF were in round tins. |
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Post by crapgame on Sept 7, 2018 16:20:34 GMT -5
Jars are great.. C&D tins age tobacco quite well, McL tins you all have horded away are very good age VA blends in..Bulk VA, well jar it and wait
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Post by Baboo on Sept 7, 2018 17:09:57 GMT -5
Jarring enables an aerobic aging process not achieved in vacuum sealed tins (anaerobic).
For aging enhancement - jar.
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Post by pepesdad1 on Sept 7, 2018 17:21:41 GMT -5
I put the tins in a food saver envelope and vacuum seal the envelope. McClelland tins I have left alone and occasionally shake them to hear the tobacco inside and to check for any rust and such. Being inside in the A/C constantly doesn't give rise to much damage or rust. Bulk, of course, gets jarred up.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 7, 2018 19:09:36 GMT -5
I can't vote because I honestly believe there's a difference in tins. McClelland/McCranie type tins were different than others. Let's be clear - THEY WERE NOT VACUUM SEALED. That's a total myth. That having been stated, I have Mac Baren Va #1 purchased and jarred from 2006. It's far superior to a 2011 tin I recently popped. It's both milder and naturally sweeter. Perhaps it was the difference in age but I doubt it. Jarring helped this one greatly IMHO. I'm still not going to go into panic mode and jar all my square tins. Low percentage play with little return on investment; furthermore, you could go to a pipe show and unload tins for your money. It's worthless for anything except trading with forum members once you jar it... I would have agreed with you about jars and resale, but people are paying gobs of money for jarred and bagged Mcclelland bulks on eBay. For long term cellaring, the square and rectangular tins are crap. Either jar them or heat seal them in food grade Mylar if you're keeping them for the long haul. Greg Pease has changed his tune on keeping blends in their original tins when it comes to the square and rectangular tins. Asked this question recently on one of the Briarblues youtube segments, Greg responded that he now jars blends that are packed in the rectangular and square tins as he's experienced a significant number seal failures. And he mentioned vacuum sealing the tins in Mylar if you're going to keep them in the tin for long term storage. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 19:46:01 GMT -5
What @10furlongs says makes a lot of sense - depends on the type of tin. If I were a C&D smoker I'd jar them. But my McClelland tins won't be opened until I'm ready to smoke them. Round screw-off and square tins,  |
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Post by william on Sept 7, 2018 20:01:08 GMT -5
I posted this picture about a month ago but I will post it again. It is Wessex Brigade Campaign Dark Flake. The darker one on the left spent 6 months in a bell jar. The one on the right is from a freshly opened tin. The age seemed to enhance the earthy, fruity notes......  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 21:01:33 GMT -5
I posted this picture about a month ago but I will post it again. It is Wessex Brigade Campaign Dark Flake. The darker one on the left spent 6 months in a bell jar. The one on the right is from a freshly opened tin. The age seemed to enhance the earthy, fruity notes...... In only 6 months I too see a big difference in the dark rich color of the flake on the left. You should notice a much more complex tasty smoke. Vacuum sealed tobacco’s slow down the aging process, that’s from my personal experience. |
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Post by Baboo on Sept 7, 2018 21:03:39 GMT -5
Jarring enables an aerobic aging process not achieved in vacuum sealed tins (anaerobic). For aging enhancement - jar. Quoting myself here and taking the idea a step further; tobacco will age much more slowly and to a somewhat lesser degree than jarring, but will age in the tin nonetheless. |
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Screaming Jazz
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Post by Screaming Jazz on Sept 7, 2018 21:07:38 GMT -5
I posted this picture about a month ago but I will post it again. It is Wessex Brigade Campaign Dark Flake. The darker one on the left spent 6 months in a bell jar. The one on the right is from a freshly opened tin. The age seemed to enhance the earthy, fruity notes...... That looks amazing! Campaign Dark Flake is my favorite straight virginia. Really love the stuff. Looks great with 6 months on it. |
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Screaming Jazz
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Post by Screaming Jazz on Sept 7, 2018 21:10:02 GMT -5
Jarring enables an aerobic aging process not achieved in vacuum sealed tins (anaerobic). For aging enhancement - jar. Quoting myself here and taking the idea a step further; tobacco will age much more slowly and to a somewhat lesser degree than jarring, but will age in the tin nonetheless. Thanks for the info. Looks Like it's time to jar some stuff up. |
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 8, 2018 11:37:05 GMT -5
What @10furlongs says makes a lot of sense - depends on the type of tin. If I were a C&D smoker I'd jar them. But my McClelland tins won't be opened until I'm ready to smoke them. Round screw-off and square tins, The round tins do better because the pressure of the seal is evenly distributed around the perimeter. That's simply not possible with square or rectangular tins. McClelland used food grade tins, and that's certainly helped them survive, but since I posted the thread on PM about C&D tinned GL Pease canister tins failing due to corrosion from the inside out, I've been getting reports of older McClelland tins from the 1990s' also failing. Any blend using vinegar as a preservative has a greater chance of rusting the tin from the inside out. So St. Bruno, for example, gets jarred for long term storage. If your event horizon is 5-7 years out, tins will probably be fine. After that it becomes a bit of a craps shoot, with the odds of success growing longer with each passing year. And as I wrote earlier in this thread, Greg Pease has changed his position regarding long term aging in tins. He now jars blends that come in rectangular and square tins. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 14:10:26 GMT -5
What @10furlongs says makes a lot of sense - depends on the type of tin. If I were a C&D smoker I'd jar them. But my McClelland tins won't be opened until I'm ready to smoke them. Round screw-off and square tins, The round tins do better because the pressure of the seal is evenly distributed around the perimeter. That's simply not possible with square or rectangular tins. McClelland used food grade tins, and that's certainly helped them survive, but since I posted the thread on PM about C&D tinned GL Pease canister tins failing due to corrosion from the inside out, I've been getting reports of older McClelland tins from the 1990s' also failing. Any blend using vinegar as a preservative has a greater chance of rusting the tin from the inside out. So St. Bruno, for example, gets jarred for long term storage. If your event horizon is 5-7 years out, tins will probably be fine. After that it becomes a bit of a craps shoot, with the odds of success growing longer with each passing year. And as I wrote earlier in this thread, Greg Pease has changed his position regarding long term aging in tins. He now jars blends that come in rectangular and square tins. I guess it's good that most of my tins are round - and given this information I think I'll prioritize opening square and rectangular tins. Not so much for aging since I mostly smoke English and aros, but so they don't get dried out or rust-damaged. I did have a little rust in an aged 1792 tin, but the tobacco was protected by the paper they wrap it in. It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked. I'm really wary of the new Germain's square tins, though I guess there's no reason to believe they're worse than the rectangular ones. |
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 8, 2018 14:20:21 GMT -5
The round tins do better because the pressure of the seal is evenly distributed around the perimeter. That's simply not possible with square or rectangular tins. McClelland used food grade tins, and that's certainly helped them survive, but since I posted the thread on PM about C&D tinned GL Pease canister tins failing due to corrosion from the inside out, I've been getting reports of older McClelland tins from the 1990s' also failing. Any blend using vinegar as a preservative has a greater chance of rusting the tin from the inside out. So St. Bruno, for example, gets jarred for long term storage. If your event horizon is 5-7 years out, tins will probably be fine. After that it becomes a bit of a craps shoot, with the odds of success growing longer with each passing year. And as I wrote earlier in this thread, Greg Pease has changed his position regarding long term aging in tins. He now jars blends that come in rectangular and square tins. I guess it's good that most of my tins are round - and given this information I think I'll prioritize opening square and rectangular tins. Not so much for aging since I mostly smoke English and aros, but so they don't get dried out or rust-damaged. I did have a little rust in an aged 1792 tin, but the tobacco was protected by the paper they wrap it in. It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked. I'm really wary of the new Germain's square tins, though I guess there's no reason to believe they're worse than the rectangular ones. ...I like sablebrush52 's estimate of 5 to 7 years on the square tins... and I'd put the cap at about 5... |
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Screaming Jazz
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Favorite Pipe: Tsuge Sandblasted Bent Billiard
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Post by Screaming Jazz on Sept 8, 2018 17:57:59 GMT -5
The round tins do better because the pressure of the seal is evenly distributed around the perimeter. That's simply not possible with square or rectangular tins. McClelland used food grade tins, and that's certainly helped them survive, but since I posted the thread on PM about C&D tinned GL Pease canister tins failing due to corrosion from the inside out, I've been getting reports of older McClelland tins from the 1990s' also failing. Any blend using vinegar as a preservative has a greater chance of rusting the tin from the inside out. So St. Bruno, for example, gets jarred for long term storage. If your event horizon is 5-7 years out, tins will probably be fine. After that it becomes a bit of a craps shoot, with the odds of success growing longer with each passing year. And as I wrote earlier in this thread, Greg Pease has changed his position regarding long term aging in tins. He now jars blends that come in rectangular and square tins. I guess it's good that most of my tins are round - and given this information I think I'll prioritize opening square and rectangular tins. Not so much for aging since I mostly smoke English and aros, but so they don't get dried out or rust-damaged. I did have a little rust in an aged 1792 tin, but the tobacco was protected by the paper they wrap it in. It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked. I'm really wary of the new Germain's square tins, though I guess there's no reason to believe they're worse than the rectangular ones. "It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked." That's interesting. Didn't know that there was a cultural difference. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 18:07:34 GMT -5
I guess it's good that most of my tins are round - and given this information I think I'll prioritize opening square and rectangular tins. Not so much for aging since I mostly smoke English and aros, but so they don't get dried out or rust-damaged. I did have a little rust in an aged 1792 tin, but the tobacco was protected by the paper they wrap it in. It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked. I'm really wary of the new Germain's square tins, though I guess there's no reason to believe they're worse than the rectangular ones. "It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked." That's interesting. Didn't know that there was a cultural difference. Actually, I'm not sure about SG & GH, but the guy at Germain's thinks it's ridiculous and gets really testy about the subject. Someone at PipesMag wrote to them about inconsistencies in Stonehaven, mentioning he had some cellared, and this was the reply: We manufacture our tobacco to be enjoyed at acquisition.
If you wish to "cellar" our blends, be it on your own head.
From our point of view, why would you want to faff around with our product?
We produce hand-made products only. Your contents may vary. That is all.
Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think
that you can do better.
John Germain
Director
J.F. Germain & Son Ltd. |
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Post by JimInks on Sept 8, 2018 18:28:48 GMT -5
"It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked." That's interesting. Didn't know that there was a cultural difference. Actually, I'm not sure about SG & GH, but the guy at Germain's thinks it's ridiculous and gets really testy about the subject. Someone at PipesMag wrote to them about inconsistencies in Stonehaven, mentioning he had some cellared, and this was the reply: We manufacture our tobacco to be enjoyed at acquisition.
If you wish to "cellar" our blends, be it on your own head.
From our point of view, why would you want to faff around with our product?
We produce hand-made products only. Your contents may vary. That is all.
Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think
that you can do better.
John Germain
Director
J.F. Germain & Son Ltd.John Germain is a horse's bustle. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 18:29:32 GMT -5
I read the above email prior.....John Germain has a serious attitude issue....not his first “ absurd “ comment!!!
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Post by morallynomadic on Sept 8, 2018 18:36:25 GMT -5
I'm in the camp of "Neither is better. Try it both ways and see which you like."
Granted I've only been smoking a wide variety of tobacco for less than a year and in general I can't afford to stock deep amounts of tobacco anyway. I don't think I'd buy a tobacco that was only good with years of age.
I've had tobacco gifted to me to try that has had anywhere from 1-20 years of age on it and while I can definitely taste a difference, I wouldn't call any of them better or worse than the equivalent fresh tobaccos.
I've also toyed around with stoving my own tobaccos and again, I wouldn't call any of it better, just different.
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Screaming Jazz
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Post by Screaming Jazz on Sept 8, 2018 18:52:48 GMT -5
"It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked." That's interesting. Didn't know that there was a cultural difference. Actually, I'm not sure about SG & GH, but the guy at Germain's thinks it's ridiculous and gets really testy about the subject. Someone at PipesMag wrote to them about inconsistencies in Stonehaven, mentioning he had some cellared, and this was the reply: We manufacture our tobacco to be enjoyed at acquisition.
If you wish to "cellar" our blends, be it on your own head.
From our point of view, why would you want to faff around with our product?
We produce hand-made products only. Your contents may vary. That is all.
Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think
that you can do better.
John Germain
Director
J.F. Germain & Son Ltd."Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think that you can do better." Haha. Damn, he is really doesn't want us to cellar his blends. |
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