sablebrush52
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Posts: 903
Favorite Pipe: Barling
Favorite Tobacco: whatever is in it
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 8, 2018 18:57:17 GMT -5
"It's probably good to remember that "cellaring" and aging is more of an American concept, and that British tins are intended to be opened and smoked." That's interesting. Didn't know that there was a cultural difference. Actually, I'm not sure about SG & GH, but the guy at Germain's thinks it's ridiculous and gets really testy about the subject. Someone at PipesMag wrote to them about inconsistencies in Stonehaven, mentioning he had some cellared, and this was the reply: We manufacture our tobacco to be enjoyed at acquisition.
If you wish to "cellar" our blends, be it on your own head.
From our point of view, why would you want to faff around with our product?
We produce hand-made products only. Your contents may vary. That is all.
Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think
that you can do better.
John Germain
Director
J.F. Germain & Son Ltd.Oh pleeeeze... In fairness, the quote was from a private email between a member of PM, who was a bit of a tool, and the director of one of the most highly respected blenders in the business, and was published by said tool without the permission of Germain. It was private correspondence and was not meant as a public statement. And, I see Germain's point. They mature these blends before packaging them and sending them out, and they believe that they are ready to be enjoyed. That's the way it used to be done by the quality blenders. You didn't buy a blend to age it, you bought an aged blend that you could immediately enjoy. So when Germain writes that people cellaring blends Germain's has already aged think they know more than the blender does, he's not really wrong. He's delivering a finished product and cellarers are saying, in effect, "Well. maybe in a few years." And let's face it. If people bought only what they needed when they needed it, there wouldn't be all this panic because there would be a lot more to go around. Other blenders, like Greg Pease, release blends that are good now, but released with the belief that further aging will improve them. It's a different philosophy toward releasing blends. Besides, the knee jerk belief that everything improves with age is BS. Everything changes to some extent with aging, but improvement? That's up to the individual smoker to decide. Long term cellaring is a fairly recent phenomenon as things go, and its widespread practice (to the extent that it is widespread) is only about 20 years old. So we're only now starting to find out what some of the drawbacks are, as well as the benefits, which is the topic of this thread. |
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Post by Darin on Sept 8, 2018 19:00:21 GMT -5
There isn't a single blend from Germain's in my inventory that hasn't improved with age.
Seriously ... who doesn't want to see sparkly plume on some Rich Dark Flake?
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sablebrush52
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Posts: 903
Favorite Pipe: Barling
Favorite Tobacco: whatever is in it
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 8, 2018 19:18:13 GMT -5
There isn't a single blend from Germain's in my inventory that hasn't improved with age. Seriously ... who doesn't want to see sparkly plume on some Rich Dark Flake? But that's your experience. Someone else may feel differently about it. The RDA i got earlier this years isn't any less enjoyable to me than the 4 year old RDA I have jarred. There are blends that I like as much both fresh and aged, like Escudo and, for that matter, Dunbar. And I haven't thus far smoked any fresh Germain's product that screamed "age me!!" That doesn't mean that I don't have any aging, but that I don't feel like a HAVE to wait. There are blends that I like only with a few years on them, like PS-LBF. And the jury is still out on McClelland 2015. I like it fresh and not so much aged, but that may change as I try different years. And others may have different preferences. It will always boil down to personal taste. There are no absolutes here. My primary reason for cellaring has little to do with aging. I cellar as a hedge against inflation and the disappearance of blends that I like. |
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Post by crapgame on Sept 8, 2018 19:34:52 GMT -5
There isn't a single blend from Germain's in my inventory that hasn't improved with age. Seriously ... who doesn't want to see sparkly plume on some Rich Dark Flake? But that's your experience. Someone else may feel differently about it. The RDA i got earlier this years isn't any less enjoyable to me than the 4 year old RDA I have jarred. There are blends that I like as much both fresh and aged, like Escudo and, for that matter, Dunbar. And I haven't thus far smoked any fresh Germain's product that screamed "age me!!" That doesn't mean that I don't have any aging, but that I don't feel like a HAVE to wait. There are blends that I like only with a few years on them, like PS-LBF. And the jury is still out on McClelland 2015. I like it fresh and not so much aged, but that may change as I try different years. And others may have different preferences. It will always boil down to personal taste. There are no absolutes here. My primary reason for cellaring has little to do with aging. I cellar as a hedge against inflation and the disappearance of blends that I like. That is the best case made to celler any tobacco! and if it does improve... BONUS!!!!!!! |
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Post by tersehopefuldjinn on Sept 8, 2018 19:56:20 GMT -5
I jar everything. This is mostly because my 'cellar' is small. I smoke everything I buy new/fresh. This is so I have a baseline profile.
I do not have specific jars for aging. I smoke out of the jars I have.
While I do believe that tin failures are slightly overblown online (people are more apt to complain then to commend, and far more tins hold then fail, looking at production numbers), jars are more secure, imo.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Sept 8, 2018 21:30:54 GMT -5
Actually, I'm not sure about SG & GH, but the guy at Germain's thinks it's ridiculous and gets really testy about the subject. Someone at PipesMag wrote to them about inconsistencies in Stonehaven, mentioning he had some cellared, and this was the reply: We manufacture our tobacco to be enjoyed at acquisition.
If you wish to "cellar" our blends, be it on your own head.
From our point of view, why would you want to faff around with our product?
We produce hand-made products only. Your contents may vary. That is all.
Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think
that you can do better.
John Germain
Director
J.F. Germain & Son Ltd.Oh pleeeeze... In fairness, the quote was from a private email between a member of PM, who was a bit of a tool, and the director of one of the most highly respected blenders in the business, and was published by said tool without the permission of Germain. It was private correspondence and was not meant as a public statement. And, I see Germain's point. They mature these blends before packaging them and sending them out, and they believe that they are ready to be enjoyed. That's the way it used to be done by the quality blenders. You didn't buy a blend to age it, you bought an aged blend that you could immediately enjoy. So when Germain writes that people cellaring blends Germain's has already aged think they know more than the blender does, he's not really wrong. He's delivering a finished product and cellarers are saying, in effect, "Well. maybe in a few years." And let's face it. If people bought only what they needed when they needed it, there wouldn't be all this panic because there would be a lot more to go around. Other blenders, like Greg Pease, release blends that are good now, but released with the belief that further aging will improve them. It's a different philosophy toward releasing blends. Besides, the knee jerk belief that everything improves with age is BS. Everything changes to some extent with aging, but improvement? That's up to the individual smoker to decide. Long term cellaring is a fairly recent phenomenon as things go, and its widespread practice (to the extent that it is widespread) is only about 20 years old. So we're only now starting to find out what some of the drawbacks are, as well as the benefits, which is the topic of this thread. Quoted for truth |
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 8, 2018 22:42:47 GMT -5
Actually, I'm not sure about SG & GH, but the guy at Germain's thinks it's ridiculous and gets really testy about the subject. Someone at PipesMag wrote to them about inconsistencies in Stonehaven, mentioning he had some cellared, and this was the reply: We manufacture our tobacco to be enjoyed at acquisition.
If you wish to "cellar" our blends, be it on your own head.
From our point of view, why would you want to faff around with our product?
We produce hand-made products only. Your contents may vary. That is all.
Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think
that you can do better.
John Germain
Director
J.F. Germain & Son Ltd.Oh pleeeeze... In fairness, the quote was from a private email between a member of PM, who was a bit of a tool, and the director of one of the most highly respected blenders in the business, and was published by said tool without the permission of Germain. It was private correspondence and was not meant as a public statement. And, I see Germain's point. They mature these blends before packaging them and sending them out, and they believe that they are ready to be enjoyed. That's the way it used to be done by the quality blenders. You didn't buy a blend to age it, you bought an aged blend that you could immediately enjoy. So when Germain writes that people cellaring blends Germain's has already aged think they know more than the blender does, he's not really wrong. He's delivering a finished product and cellarers are saying, in effect, "Well. maybe in a few years." And let's face it. If people bought only what they needed when they needed it, there wouldn't be all this panic because there would be a lot more to go around. Other blenders, like Greg Pease, release blends that are good now, but released with the belief that further aging will improve them. It's a different philosophy toward releasing blends. Besides, the knee jerk belief that everything improves with age is BS. Everything changes to some extent with aging, but improvement? That's up to the individual smoker to decide. Long term cellaring is a fairly recent phenomenon as things go, and its widespread practice (to the extent that it is widespread) is only about 20 years old. So we're only now starting to find out what some of the drawbacks are, as well as the benefits, which is the topic of this thread. Well stated, sablebrush52. Appreciate the post. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 9, 2018 2:44:35 GMT -5
There isn't a single blend from Germain's in my inventory that hasn't improved with age. Seriously ... who doesn't want to see sparkly plume on some Rich Dark Flake? But that's your experience. Someone else may feel differently about it. The RDA i got earlier this years isn't any less enjoyable to me than the 4 year old RDA I have jarred. There are blends that I like as much both fresh and aged, like Escudo and, for that matter, Dunbar. And I haven't thus far smoked any fresh Germain's product that screamed "age me!!" That doesn't mean that I don't have any aging, but that I don't feel like a HAVE to wait. There are blends that I like only with a few years on them, like PS-LBF. And the jury is still out on McClelland 2015. I like it fresh and not so much aged, but that may change as I try different years. And others may have different preferences. It will always boil down to personal taste. There are no absolutes here. My primary reason for cellaring has little to do with aging. I cellar as a hedge against inflation and the disappearance of blends that I like.This too. I see it as stockpiling as opposed to cellaring. And the fact that all my tins are open and I don't jar testifies to that. |
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 9, 2018 3:06:59 GMT -5
But that's your experience. Someone else may feel differently about it. The RDA i got earlier this years isn't any less enjoyable to me than the 4 year old RDA I have jarred. There are blends that I like as much both fresh and aged, like Escudo and, for that matter, Dunbar. And I haven't thus far smoked any fresh Germain's product that screamed "age me!!" That doesn't mean that I don't have any aging, but that I don't feel like a HAVE to wait. There are blends that I like only with a few years on them, like PS-LBF. And the jury is still out on McClelland 2015. I like it fresh and not so much aged, but that may change as I try different years. And others may have different preferences. It will always boil down to personal taste. There are no absolutes here. My primary reason for cellaring has little to do with aging. I cellar as a hedge against inflation and the disappearance of blends that I like.This too. I see it as stockpiling as opposed to cellaring. And the fact that all my tins are open and I don't jar testifies to that. ...sometimes I think "cellaring" is silly... I can't possibly smoke all I have before I pass away... and yet I keep buying... |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 9, 2018 7:57:18 GMT -5
This too. I see it as stockpiling as opposed to cellaring. And the fact that all my tins are open and I don't jar testifies to that. ...sometimes I think "cellaring" is silly... I can't possibly smoke all I have before I pass away... and yet I keep buying... It's a disorder. Unless we get help there's not much we can do. |
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Post by Wolfman on Sept 9, 2018 8:32:40 GMT -5
Actually, I'm not sure about SG & GH, but the guy at Germain's thinks it's ridiculous and gets really testy about the subject. Someone at PipesMag wrote to them about inconsistencies in Stonehaven, mentioning he had some cellared, and this was the reply: We manufacture our tobacco to be enjoyed at acquisition.
If you wish to "cellar" our blends, be it on your own head.
From our point of view, why would you want to faff around with our product?
We produce hand-made products only. Your contents may vary. That is all.
Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think
that you can do better.
John Germain
Director
J.F. Germain & Son Ltd."Please do not be a "cellarer" unless you are willing to admit that you think that you can do better." Haha. Damn, he is really doesn't want us to cellar his blends. Wow, that’s quite interesting. I’ve smoked many Esoterica blends fresh and never felt they weren’t ready to smoke. On the other hand, I’ve smoked 20 year old Penzance and Margate, and Dunbar from 2002. They all aged incredibly well. As far as cellaring, I prefer jarring, but those round tins work well too. A note of caution, Square tins can be unreliable. The McClelland and GLP tins can be hit or miss. Last night, I reopened a paint can tin of Peretti Royal Blend from May 2017 and the inside rusted out. The tobacco couldn’t be saved. I then checked a similar can of Omega from the same time, and it didn’t have any rust. I’ve also had this issue with a 2005 GLP 8 oz tin. |
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sablebrush52
Full Member
Posts: 903
Favorite Pipe: Barling
Favorite Tobacco: whatever is in it
Location:
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 9, 2018 10:00:51 GMT -5
This too. I see it as stockpiling as opposed to cellaring. And the fact that all my tins are open and I don't jar testifies to that. ...sometimes I think "cellaring" is silly... I can't possibly smoke all I have before I pass away... and yet I keep buying... Well, it certainly can be a disorder, considering the case of a pipesmoker I know of who smokes 2 to 3 times a week, commissions 1 to 2 expensive pipes a week, and has a cellar in excess of 600 lbs. Unless he lives for another 400 years, he's not likely to smoke his way through that cellar. And there are any number of others who have in excess of 300 lbs or more, well into or approaching seniorhood and still buying. While some of these guys are buying for investment, figuring on cashing in on their hoards by screwing gouging charging high prices down the road after many of these blends disappear, others are still buying because they're still buying. I discussed this phenomenon with a well known member in the piping community and his response was interesting. He said that ceasing to buy was like admitting our mortality, something that most of use are loathe to do. I have to admit, it makes sense. I have nowhere near the amounts of tobaccos others have, but I do have more than I'm ever going to smoke. Yet, I still buy the occasional tin even though it's the last thing I actually need and makes no practical sense. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 9, 2018 10:26:12 GMT -5
...sometimes I think "cellaring" is silly... I can't possibly smoke all I have before I pass away... and yet I keep buying... Well, it certainly can be a disorder, considering the case of a pipesmoker I know of who smokes 2 to 3 times a week, commissions 1 to 2 expensive pipes a week, and has a cellar in excess of 600 lbs. Unless he lives for another 400 years, he's not likely to smoke his way through that cellar. And there are any number of others who have in excess of 300 lbs or more, well into or approaching seniorhood and still buying. While some of these guys are buying for investment, figuring on cashing in on their hoards by screwing gouging charging high prices down the road after many of these blends disappear, others are still buying because they're still buying. I discussed this phenomenon with a well known member in the piping community and his response was interesting. He said that ceasing to buy was like admitting our mortality, something that most of use are loathe to do. I have to admit, it makes sense. I have nowhere near the amounts of tobaccos others have, but I do have more than I'm ever going to smoke. Yet, I still buy the occasional tin even though it's the last thing I actually need and makes no practical sense. That was quite profound, sablebrush52. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 10:49:58 GMT -5
Without scarcity, there would be no rationale to cellar. Along with consumption, these are the two primary driving forces to purchase in capitalistic societies.
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Post by william on Sept 9, 2018 11:05:54 GMT -5
Well, it certainly can be a disorder, considering the case of a pipesmoker I know of who smokes 2 to 3 times a week, commissions 1 to 2 expensive pipes a week, and has a cellar in excess of 600 lbs. Unless he lives for another 400 years, he's not likely to smoke his way through that cellar. And there are any number of others who have in excess of 300 lbs or more, well into or approaching seniorhood and still buying. While some of these guys are buying for investment, figuring on cashing in on their hoards by screwing gouging charging high prices down the road after many of these blends disappear, others are still buying because they're still buying. I discussed this phenomenon with a well known member in the piping community and his response was interesting. He said that ceasing to buy was like admitting our mortality, something that most of use are loathe to do. I have to admit, it makes sense. I have nowhere near the amounts of tobaccos others have, but I do have more than I'm ever going to smoke. Yet, I still buy the occasional tin even though it's the last thing I actually need and makes no practical sense. , sablebrush52 . Agreed, Paddy. It's like putting off making a will. Excellent analysis, sablebrush52. I will admit that the 600 lbs. of tobacco makes me feel better. I tallied all mine up last night and was feeling guilty that I had 9 lbs. I feel much better now.  |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 9, 2018 11:12:53 GMT -5
lol. Even 9lbs makes my kilogram look small.
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Post by antb on Sept 11, 2018 2:31:09 GMT -5
lol. Even 9lbs makes my kilogram look small. You're up to a kilo already, LL?  And you thought you'd never have more than two or three tins around  You see: The thin edge of the wedge, mate......  |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 11, 2018 8:17:18 GMT -5
lol. Even 9lbs makes my kilogram look small. You're up to a kilo already, LL? And you thought you'd never have more than two or three tins around You see: The thin edge of the wedge, mate...... I know. I'm doomed. And the rate of purchase increased ever since I joined the forum. |
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Post by McWiggins on Sept 11, 2018 9:29:16 GMT -5
As a growing greenhorn, this is my thought so correct me if I’m wrong.
First, I cellar what I can to have it for the future. In this climate of change I'm not sure what might suddenly go away. I also load up what I can during sales as tobacco will only get more costly.
As for jars my thinking is such. The stories of failed tins or tobacco gone bad is small compared to the whole picture. Still, jars are cheap and so are steps taken to be sterile. Taking the time and care to put away my tobacco/investment allows me to see what's going on. If a mold were to develop, I would be able to catch it. I cant see through a tin so without external signs, I’m oblivious to life events going on inside.
I’m sure my actions are overkill.
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haveldad
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Post by haveldad on Sept 11, 2018 10:55:42 GMT -5
Pickle your Virginias, then they will never go bad!
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haveldad
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Post by haveldad on Sept 11, 2018 11:09:21 GMT -5
...sometimes I think "cellaring" is silly... I can't possibly smoke all I have before I pass away... and yet I keep buying... Well, it certainly can be a disorder, considering the case of a pipesmoker I know of who smokes 2 to 3 times a week, commissions 1 to 2 expensive pipes a week, and has a cellar in excess of 600 lbs. Unless he lives for another 400 years, he's not likely to smoke his way through that cellar. And there are any number of others who have in excess of 300 lbs or more, well into or approaching seniorhood and still buying. While some of these guys are buying for investment, figuring on cashing in on their hoards by screwing gouging charging high prices down the road after many of these blends disappear, others are still buying because they're still buying. I discussed this phenomenon with a well known member in the piping community and his response was interesting. He said that ceasing to buy was like admitting our mortality, something that most of use are loathe to do. I have to admit, it makes sense. I have nowhere near the amounts of tobaccos others have, but I do have more than I'm ever going to smoke. Yet, I still buy the occasional tin even though it's the last thing I actually need and makes no practical sense. Nothing wrong with charging more for things that are out of production or have age on them. Thats supply and demand, if supply is low or no longer being refreshed I'm not gonna sell to you at the same price of those high supply prices. Same goes with aging, its like wine, takes up space for me and if you want the luxury of already aged product you'll need to cough up more cash. Not to mention the fact that none of these products are a necessity to living, so when people happily pay more for OOP products they are not being screwed over, they are simply paying the new price floor of the product. |
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Sept 11, 2018 12:43:28 GMT -5
Well, it certainly can be a disorder, considering the case of a pipesmoker I know of who smokes 2 to 3 times a week, commissions 1 to 2 expensive pipes a week, and has a cellar in excess of 600 lbs. Unless he lives for another 400 years, he's not likely to smoke his way through that cellar. And there are any number of others who have in excess of 300 lbs or more, well into or approaching seniorhood and still buying. While some of these guys are buying for investment, figuring on cashing in on their hoards by screwing gouging charging high prices down the road after many of these blends disappear, others are still buying because they're still buying. I discussed this phenomenon with a well known member in the piping community and his response was interesting. He said that ceasing to buy was like admitting our mortality, something that most of use are loathe to do. I have to admit, it makes sense. I have nowhere near the amounts of tobaccos others have, but I do have more than I'm ever going to smoke. Yet, I still buy the occasional tin even though it's the last thing I actually need and makes no practical sense. Nothing wrong with charging more for things that are out of production or have age on them. Thats supply and demand, if supply is low or no longer being refreshed I'm not gonna sell to you at the same price of those high supply prices. Same goes with aging, its like wine, takes up space for me and if you want the luxury of already aged product you'll need to cough up more cash. Not to mention the fact that none of these products are a necessity to living, so when people happily pay more for OOP products they are not being screwed over, they are simply paying the new price floor of the product. Absolutely, there's nothing wrong with charging more for something no longer being made. But I also don't have any need to sugar coat it or ennoble it. I've sold tins of hard to find stuff for more considerably than I paid for it. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to pay the price I'm asking and it's not essential to people's well being or survival. It is a service. In Classical economic terms, this sort of activity is considered parasitic because it doesn't produce any new production, nor does it produce significant employment or require any significant labor. It's no different than ticket scalping. And I accept that. |
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haveldad
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Posts: 477
Favorite Pipe: Kaywoodie Freehand Poker
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Post by haveldad on Sept 11, 2018 14:53:16 GMT -5
Nothing wrong with charging more for things that are out of production or have age on them. Thats supply and demand, if supply is low or no longer being refreshed I'm not gonna sell to you at the same price of those high supply prices. Same goes with aging, its like wine, takes up space for me and if you want the luxury of already aged product you'll need to cough up more cash. Not to mention the fact that none of these products are a necessity to living, so when people happily pay more for OOP products they are not being screwed over, they are simply paying the new price floor of the product. Absolutely, there's nothing wrong with charging more for something no longer being made. But I also don't have any need to sugar coat it or ennoble it. I've sold tins of hard to find stuff for more considerably than I paid for it. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to pay the price I'm asking and it's not essential to people's well being or survival. It is a service. In Classical economic terms, this sort of activity is considered parasitic because it doesn't produce any new production, nor does it produce significant employment or require any significant labor. It's no different than ticket scalping. And I accept that. The thought of someone being held at gunpoint and forced to buy Stonehaven for 120$ made me giggle. Thank for the laugh. |
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 11, 2018 14:58:34 GMT -5
Absolutely, there's nothing wrong with charging more for something no longer being made. But I also don't have any need to sugar coat it or ennoble it. I've sold tins of hard to find stuff for more considerably than I paid for it. Nobody is putting a gun to anyone's head to pay the price I'm asking and it's not essential to people's well being or survival. It is a service. In Classical economic terms, this sort of activity is considered parasitic because it doesn't produce any new production, nor does it produce significant employment or require any significant labor. It's no different than ticket scalping. And I accept that. The thought of someone being held at gunpoint and forced to buy Stonehaven for 120$ made me giggle. Thank for the laugh. ...you know, if the demand is there and you can fulfill that demand, no one is to blame... |
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And you thought you'd never have more than two or three tins around 
You see: The thin edge of the wedge, mate...... 
