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Post by smellthehatfirst on Oct 7, 2018 9:43:19 GMT -5
Another solution that beats the heck out of repeaters is power line networking. In most houses, you can use any pair of outlets as a wired extension of your network. Then you can run a second fully-fledged wifi AP off of a wired connection, and not have any of the downsides of a repeater. This is handy for e.g. backyard wifi. Here's a combination wifi AP + powerline networking doohickey www.amazon.com/dp/B01K7IH638Here's a unit that just does the powerline networking, in case you already have a second wifi AP that you prefer to the built-in one www.amazon.com/dp/B01H74VKZU |
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Post by McWiggins on Oct 7, 2018 10:05:01 GMT -5
To add to this, the average home router will also be slower on WiFi. The much more high end (but costly) routers will do better with speed and signal strength. A repeater/extender might be needed as well. Even at just 80% of strength, performance degradation can be noticed. WiFi repeaters are a mixed blessing The maximum throughput on any node connected through a repeater is 1/2 of the available throughput on the host network. Meaning, if the repeater achieves 100 mbps talking to the upstream network, clients connected via repeater will experience a maximum of 50 mbps. (Often much less than that, since the clients struggle to reach the repeater.) Worse, consumer gear doesn't understand how to manage its radios to avoid interference, so clients that are "in between" the repeater and the upstream network may find themselves switching between the two. It is often easier to move your wifi unit to a more favorable location than try to figure out the nasty tradeoffs between repeaters and signal strength True but properly managed, they work well in what they provide and can resolve many issues if one cannot move their router. In my case, my router sites literally in the middle of my home on the second floor. The layout also helps with the least amount of obstructions in this location as well. Depending on the device and how good its equipment is, (laptop, cell phone, tablet, Google Devices) I can get over WiFi with medium signal strength between 50-70Mbps down and 3-6Mbps up. With an extender this changes of course but with no real issue. The only issue I have had with any device was with Chromecast. It needed a nearly 100% signal strength despite speeds and one of them was put on a TV that is also the furthest from the router. Putting in an extender solved the issue, even if speeds on my extended networks are more in the range of 20-30Mbps, the signal itself is stronger. |
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Post by Cramptholomew on Oct 7, 2018 10:07:37 GMT -5
To add to this, the average home router will also be slower on WiFi. The much more high end (but costly) routers will do better with speed and signal strength. A repeater/extender might be needed as well. Even at just 80% of strength, performance degradation can be noticed. WiFi repeaters are a mixed blessing The maximum throughput on any node connected through a repeater is 1/2 of the available throughput on the host network. Meaning, if the repeater achieves 100 mbps talking to the upstream network, clients connected via repeater will experience a maximum of 50 mbps. (Often much less than that, since the clients struggle to reach the repeater.) Worse, consumer gear doesn't understand how to manage its radios to avoid interference, so clients that are "in between" the repeater and the upstream network may find themselves switching between the two. It is often easier to move your wifi unit to a more favorable location than try to figure out the nasty tradeoffs between repeaters and signal strength my dad had a terrible time having access everywhere in his house. It's not a huge house by any means, but there's a few glass French doors, and one in his office where the router is located. I told him to move the router to the living room, but he didn't want the added clutter behind the TV, and he has phone service through his provider. We ended up putting in a Google mesh network, and it's been fantastic. Service everywhere, and good enough to stream. I've tried repeaters, but NEVER had good luck with them. The switching between signals is indeed awful. But, the mesh networks seem to ameliorate that issue. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Oct 7, 2018 10:15:22 GMT -5
Another solution that beats the heck out of repeaters is power line networking. In most houses, you can use any pair of outlets as a wired extension of your network. Then you can run a second fully-fledged wifi AP off of a wired connection, and not have any of the downsides of a repeater. This is handy for e.g. backyard wifi. Here's a combination wifi AP + powerline networking doohickey www.amazon.com/dp/B01K7IH638Here's a unit that just does the powerline networking, in case you already have a second wifi AP that you prefer to the built-in one www.amazon.com/dp/B01H74VKZU+1 on the powerline adapters. I use them too and they work great. Never had an issue. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 12:30:59 GMT -5
In my own opinion extenders work better than power line extenders. Newer extenders offer very little loss vs being plugged directly into the router. Remember your extender repeater is only as good as where it is placed.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Oct 7, 2018 13:49:26 GMT -5
In my own opinion extenders work better than power line extenders. Newer extenders offer very little loss vs being plugged directly into the router. Remember your extender repeater is only as good as where it is placed. It's fundamental to the protocol that repeaters can offer no more than 1/2 of the bandwidth provided by the upstream network. That's just how 802.11 WDS works. There's no way around it.
And 1/2 is only the minimum loss. Often the loss is much greater than 1/2 due to signal issues.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 15:24:06 GMT -5
That's single band we are now up to three independent radios or more in a consumer grade extenders and routers no more sharing one lane. They are going to come out with Number 6 WiFi and rename all the older standards to numbers. The days of Linksys WRT blue boxes are over for good. SU MIMO old MU NIMO the new thing and only found after 2017 on high grade devices. 6 will offer improved OFDMA and 1024-QUAM all pushed through a onboard processer that probably puts most laptops to shame. Same with IPV4 is going to give way to IPV6. All the math for those fancy algorithms is way beyond me but wire is almost obsolete.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 19:53:01 GMT -5
Okay guys, I was a CET not a network engineer, "Smellthehatfirst" lost me at the top of the page.
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Post by Darin on Oct 7, 2018 20:02:19 GMT -5
Like I tell my wife ... don't worry until there's something to worry about.  You'll most likely get set-up and be perfectly fine with your speed. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 20:07:28 GMT -5
Like I tell my wife ... don't worry until there's something to worry about. You'll most likely get set-up and be perfectly fine with your speed. I hope so sir, my only concern is uploading photos to my website once I get back to making pipes. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2018 20:44:19 GMT -5
You will be fine anything is better than dial up or in my case sharing with 38 phones and what not. Or worse yet getting wifi from Mickey D's five miles away. I think the wires are left over from the telegraph on my street.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 19:21:38 GMT -5
Well, I have Hughes internet (satellite internet) now and it sucks Big Time.
There's got to be a better way, don't know how long I can deal with this garbage, its a joke at best.
And to top it off I pay more for it then I did cable.
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Post by McWiggins on Oct 31, 2018 19:41:32 GMT -5
Well, I have Hughes internet (satellite internet) now and it sucks Big Time. There's got to be a better way, don't know how long I can deal with this garbage, its a joke at best. And to top it off I pay more for it then I did cable. Hughes has been horrible since day one.  The only thing I can say is that providers are very sectional and you may only have limited options. |
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Post by Cramptholomew on Oct 31, 2018 20:28:44 GMT -5
Well, I have Hughes internet (satellite internet) now and it sucks Big Time. There's got to be a better way, don't know how long I can deal with this garbage, its a joke at best. And to top it off I pay more for it then I did cable. Do you get cell signal? You might be able to get a hot spot. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 20:54:10 GMT -5
Well, I have Hughes internet (satellite internet) now and it sucks Big Time. There's got to be a better way, don't know how long I can deal with this garbage, its a joke at best. And to top it off I pay more for it then I did cable. Do you get cell signal? You might be able to get a hot spot. Don't have a cellphone, nor want one. |
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Post by McWiggins on Oct 31, 2018 21:05:49 GMT -5
Do you get cell signal? You might be able to get a hot spot. Don't have a cellphone, nor want one. You wouldnt have to get a cell phone. If you live in an area with a good data connection, you could get a device that is a modem/router that connects to the LTE network. |
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Post by trailboss on Oct 31, 2018 22:17:46 GMT -5
Don't have a cellphone, nor want one. You wouldnt have to get a cell phone. If you live in an area with a good data connection, you could get a device that is a modem/router that connects to the LTE network. Good point. Ron, ask around and find out who has the best cell phone coverage in your area and go to a store for that carrier and let them know your situation... an unlimited data plan and a device to allow you to run your computer may be cheaper than paying Dish. Refer to my earlier post on download/ upload speeds on my cell plan... it smokes my cable connection. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 23:03:33 GMT -5
You wouldnt have to get a cell phone. If you live in an area with a good data connection, you could get a device that is a modem/router that connects to the LTE network. Good point. Ron, ask around and find out who has the best cell phone coverage in your area and go to a store for that carrier and let them know your situation... an unlimited data plan and a device to allow you to run your computer may be cheaper than paying Dish. Refer to my earlier post on download/ upload speeds on my cell plan... it smokes my cable connection. My speeds where 50 down and 6 up on cable but, I'll check in to the cellphone connection thing but, don't see it being any better to tell ya the truth. I'm pretty frustrated right now and the only thing on my mind is to tell Hughes to either fix it, or what they can do with there service. I don't take to being lied to and cheated lightly so they all better be thankful I'm a god fearing, law respecting man.
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Post by trailboss on Oct 31, 2018 23:57:43 GMT -5
It sounds like a true Texan to me...
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Nov 1, 2018 0:22:06 GMT -5
Well, I have Hughes internet (satellite internet) now and it sucks Big Time. There's got to be a better way, don't know how long I can deal with this garbage, its a joke at best. And to top it off I pay more for it then I did cable. Satellite internet pretty much always sucks, unless you have an extraordinarily specific use case. The speed of light means it takes a long time for messages to pass back and forth, no matter how many messages you send at the same time. The advertised "12 megabits" is how much stuff they can send you at a time, but they can't break the laws of physics -- it takes a long time for the stuff to arrive!
If you have any other internet option (ISDN, IDSL, DSL, cable, rural wifi), it's gonna be more pleasant to use, even if the bandwidth on offer is lower.
I would take the standard 1/8th of a megabit on ISDN over 12 megabits on satellite any day of the week.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Nov 1, 2018 0:24:08 GMT -5
It looks like I actually got the essentials out of the way on the first page of the thread, so I'm just gonna quote myself on the topic of latency vs bandwidth The big pain on a dish is latency.
Cable internet is typically around 10 mbps, at 10 ms of latency. Satellite internet is often in the 10 mbps area, at 400 ms of latency.
Latency and bandwidth are unrelated. You can have good latency and bad bandwidth (old-timey ISDN) or great bandwidth and awful latency (satellite) Browsing the web with high latency is a huge pain, whether or not you have good bandwidth. Streaming video should probably work just fine, given enough bandwidth, whether or not the latency is good. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Nov 1, 2018 13:36:01 GMT -5
Don't have a cellphone, nor want one. You wouldnt have to get a cell phone. If you live in an area with a good data connection, you could get a device that is a modem/router that connects to the LTE network. This here. It would be worth checking out, rdpipes. |
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