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Post by addamsruspipe on Dec 30, 2018 23:52:37 GMT -5
I have been restoring pipes for about 10 years now. Started just restoring for myself, but found I enjoyed it so much that I eventually had restored more pipes then I needed. So I then started selling my restores on Ebay and at the local pipe store. I would do everything I could do to put the pipe back to as new condition as I could. Then a several years ago a friend gave me his fathers pipe since he did not smoke and had no use for them. So I restored them as I usually did, getting them as close to new as I could. These pipe had all been knocked around a bit, so I even decided to top two of them. Now none of the pipes had functional issues, they just showed they had been smoked/knocked and used extensively. When I showed them to him later, he looked disappointed and said they did not look like his fathers pipes anymore. That got me thinking about how many perfectly functional pipes that just needed some appropriate restoration I had worked on. I am more careful now when I restore a pipe, I look at what can I do to bring a pipe back to life while still leaving it's character and history intact. Here's a Comoy's Guildhall I am currently working on and I am debating leaving the rim at this point. I removed all the charring/tar buildup and smoothed the rim down a little. I am thinking that doing more would take away from the character of the pipe as the next step would be to top it which would require a good 4-5 mm off it. Thoughts/Opinions?   |
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Dec 31, 2018 3:03:42 GMT -5
I have been restoring pipes for about 10 years now. Started just restoring for myself, but found I enjoyed it so much that I eventually had restored more pipes then I needed. So I then started selling my restores on Ebay and at the local pipe store. I would do everything I could do to put the pipe back to as new condition as I could. Then a several years ago a friend gave me his fathers pipe since he did not smoke and had no use for them. So I restored them as I usually did, getting them as close to new as I could. These pipe had all been knocked around a bit, so I even decided to top two of them. Now none of the pipes had functional issues, they just showed they had been smoked/knocked and used extensively. When I showed them to him later, he looked disappointed and said they did not look like his fathers pipes anymore. That got me thinking about how many perfectly functional pipes that just needed some appropriate restoration I had worked on. I am more careful now when I restore a pipe, I look at what can I do to bring a pipe back to life while still leaving it's character and history intact. Here's a Comoy's Guildhall I am currently working on and I am debating leaving the rim at this point. I removed all the charring/tar buildup and smoothed the rim down a little. I am thinking that doing more would take away from the character of the pipe as the next step would be to top it which would require a good 4-5 mm off it. Thoughts/Opinions? I'm not a fan of Botoxing a pipe. I'll generally do just enough to make the pipe usable, while not getting invasive about it. I'm reminded of a conversation I had with George Dibos a couple of years ago. As my means for doing woodworking are limited right now, I can't carry out structural restoration, so I sent George a couple of pipes for him to restore. His first question was did I want the pipe to look new, or did I want to leave some signs of use. I opted for the latter, as I didn't want to remove the pipe's history. This did involve a very light topping, but not so much as to significantly alter the proportions of the pipe, just enough to remove some of the tapping dents so the rim looked presentable but not pristine. I didn't have other marks removed, just left them where they were. The pipe was 100 years old, and the patina of age was part of its charm, and I didn't want to remove it's finish. I'm quite happy with the result, which is seamless and undetectable. The other issue I have with extensive clean ups by sellers is that it also removes signs of misuse and abuse, leaving the buyer thinking he's buying a lightly used pipe, rather than one whose potential issues have been hidden through an extensive face lift. A cosmetic clean up does nothing to address structural issues that may be present in a heavily used and abused pipe. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Dec 31, 2018 6:39:27 GMT -5
That's a great question, addamsruspipe. I suppose, if you have a client, you ask the same question that georged asked sablebrush52, namely "What do YOU want it to look like?" I think the answer is as subjective as the hobby. For me, I don't care about the history so much so I would probably opt for a new-looking pipe - even if it was my dad's. But I'm not like everyone else, so I suppose asking the question is the first step. For your own restoration what you COULD do, if you could be bothered, is to take the pipe down to a level that would retain the character, take a number of photos, and then continue to take it to the max. Take more photos and compare the results. That's my scientific approach to it. |
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Post by Cramptholomew on Dec 31, 2018 10:16:32 GMT -5
I agree with Legend LoverMy only addendum would be: if you're going to sell it, I'd think 99% of people looking to buy would be looking for a full restoration - the pipe has no sentimental value to them. If someone SENDS you something, I'd just add that simple question to your discourse - "do you want a full restoration, or would you like me to keep it as close to how it is now, but clean it up?" |
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Dec 31, 2018 11:46:05 GMT -5
In the very specific case of this bulldog, I don't think a full restoration is possible.
Topping it is going to very substantially alter the proportions. Anyone will be able to see that it was chopped down savagely.
However, the damage to the rim is too profound to be handled with a little sandpaper.
It's a lose/lose proposition. Either live with the mangled rim, or foul the pipe's proportions irreparably.
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 31, 2018 11:59:11 GMT -5
...good thread, Eric...
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Post by Quintsrevenge on Dec 31, 2018 12:04:51 GMT -5
Case by case , show pipes and daily smokers would also come into play. I like both sides of the fence. In the case for the pipe pictured I would probably go down and take off some more but that’s my opinion.
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Post by kbareit on Dec 31, 2018 12:10:40 GMT -5
When I found my grandfathers pipes I just cleaned them so they were smokable. One pipe had a stem that was glued in so I rigged it with shrink tubing so it can be removed for cleaning. I left all the blemishes and cleaned the outside good on them. I do get a lot of estate lots and find some styles that interest me in trying so I get the pipe functional and if I like it clean it up real good and leave as is. I have one pipe a Wally Frank that I had to sand completely down as it looked like it was water damaged and had to sand the rim down a little to clean a dent up in it. Other than that it's hard to tell it got sanded. All the pipes I get in are for my own use and I don't intend to sell any and some of the basket cases let me learn how to repair them.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Dec 31, 2018 12:23:15 GMT -5
It bears mentioning that I generally don't buy pipes that need this kind of work because I hate, hate, hate having to choose between topping and not-topping.
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Post by monbla256 on Dec 31, 2018 13:11:12 GMT -5
I have been restoring pipes for about 10 years now. Started just restoring for myself, but found I enjoyed it so much that I eventually had restored more pipes then I needed. So I then started selling my restores on Ebay and at the local pipe store. I would do everything I could do to put the pipe back to as new condition as I could. Then a several years ago a friend gave me his fathers pipe since he did not smoke and had no use for them. So I restored them as I usually did, getting them as close to new as I could. These pipe had all been knocked around a bit, so I even decided to top two of them. Now none of the pipes had functional issues, they just showed they had been smoked/knocked and used extensively. When I showed them to him later, he looked disappointed and said they did not look like his fathers pipes anymore. That got me thinking about how many perfectly functional pipes that just needed some appropriate restoration I had worked on. I am more careful now when I restore a pipe, I look at what can I do to bring a pipe back to life while still leaving it's character and history intact. Here's a Comoy's Guildhall I am currently working on and I am debating leaving the rim at this point. I removed all the charring/tar buildup and smoothed the rim down a little. I am thinking that doing more would take away from the character of the pipe as the next step would be to top it which would require a good 4-5 mm off it. Thoughts/Opinions? I'm not a fan of Botoxing a pipe. I'll generally do just enough to make the pipe usable, while not getting invasive about it. I'm reminded of a conversation I had with George Dibos a couple of years ago. As my means for doing woodworking are limited right now, I can't carry out structural restoration, so I sent George a couple of pipes for him to restore. His first question was did I want the pipe to look new, or did I want to leave some signs of use. I opted for the latter, as I didn't want to remove the pipe's history. This did involve a very light topping, but not so much as to significantly alter the proportions of the pipe, just enough to remove some of the tapping dents so the rim looked presentable but not pristine. I didn't have other marks removed, just left them where they were. The pipe was 100 years old, and the patina of age was part of its charm, and I didn't want to remove it's finish. I'm quite happy with the result, which is seamless and undetectable. The other issue I have with extensive clean ups by sellers is that it also removes signs of misuse and abuse, leaving the buyer thinking he's buying a lightly used pipe, rather than one whose potential issues have been hidden through an extensive face lift. A cosmetic clean up does nothing to address structural issues that may be present in a heavily used and abused pipe.  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 13:17:04 GMT -5
Clean the pipe up enough and see how good it smokes. If it smokes well keep it for a work around pipe, if it drops and breaks...that’s okay. If it’s not a decent smoker.....deep six it👍
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Post by peteguy on Dec 31, 2018 13:33:39 GMT -5
To me it depends on your end game. If it is selling on ebay do you want to get top dollar? I know sable has shown pipes that have been "restored" by top sellers on ebay and they do not even look like the same pipe. Yet, they are going after $$ so it is in their best interest to do it that way. If it is being done for a client then you want to restore it how they want it restored. Some may opt for brand new and some may opt for minimal or just enough. Case by Case as stated.
For me, I try to keep the integrity or bones of the pipe intact while making it as good as possible. Money doesn't drive me - giving back to the hobby does. I personally want a pipe to look brand new so I usually don't keep pipes that have even a minor issue unless it is something rare. The ones I don't keep I sell and make sure to list exactly what those imperfections are to the buyer.
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joeman
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Post by joeman on Dec 31, 2018 13:42:31 GMT -5
I agree with some of the responses. If it's for me...I'll do with it as I like. If it's for a customer, I'll ask them what they're looking for. While altering / 'topping' the pipe and leaving it different than the original shape is an option, there are also ways to re-build the rim back to the original shape...though doing it right takes a skilled hand. And in that case, if it's for a customer or buyer, they should be aware of what's been done to it.
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Post by pepesdad1 on Dec 31, 2018 14:01:53 GMT -5
I restored a couple of pipes for me. Had to top a bulldog...big chip outta the rim. Took it down and it still looks good and since I am the only one that sees it, it is just fine.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Dec 31, 2018 14:26:09 GMT -5
I agree with some of the responses. If it's for me...I'll do with it as I like. If it's for a customer, I'll ask them what they're looking for. While altering / 'topping' the pipe and leaving it different than the original shape is an option, there are also ways to re-build the rim back to the original shape...though doing it right takes a skilled hand. And in that case, if it's for a customer or buyer, they should be aware of what's been done to it. How does one rebuild a rim surface? |
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Dec 31, 2018 15:51:35 GMT -5
That particular one I definitely wouldn't top, as the bowl is already on the slight side compared to the shank. YMMV.
And agree with above on minimal restoration- you can always do more later, but you can't undo an overly cranked piece of briar. For a client, the question is a critical one!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 16:13:35 GMT -5
That one I would try to top you wont lose that much. Personally I just clean em real good inside and out they don't look new but I know they are clean. I am more of a my living room is cluttered mess but the back of fridge is spotless.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Dec 31, 2018 20:04:39 GMT -5
I agree with some of the responses. If it's for me...I'll do with it as I like. If it's for a customer, I'll ask them what they're looking for. While altering / 'topping' the pipe and leaving it different than the original shape is an option, there are also ways to re-build the rim back to the original shape...though doing it right takes a skilled hand. And in that case, if it's for a customer or buyer, they should be aware of what's been done to it. How does one rebuild a rim surface? Briar dust, binder, and stain, layered to replace the damaged part. One member here did a beautiful job, including altering the deepness of the stain to recreate the look of grain in the rebuilt areas. With collectible pipes the rules are a bit different, condition matters as in original condition, not recreated condition. And what ticks me off is when a seller misrepresents the pipes he's selling. A couple of years ago, a well known seller picked up a very used 1920's era gold banded Barling at auction, a pipe that had clear signs of heavy use, a pretty messed up rim, etc. He then did a deep cosmetic restoration job on it and put it back up for auction, claiming that the pipe had, and I quote, "somehow survived in this clean condition", passing it off as a little used pipe. |
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Post by addamsruspipe on Dec 31, 2018 20:08:50 GMT -5
So I took the pipe to the tobacconist in town where I sell some of my restores. They said that this condition would not be a issue for them to sell it because the customer can pick up the pipe and get a feel for it. Their thoughts were that if you can only see the pipe you want it as close to new as possible. But in a case where the customer can actually hold the pipe having some character/history can actually be a good thing. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2018 20:17:26 GMT -5
I can agree with Jesse on the old Barling.
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Post by trailboss on Dec 31, 2018 22:28:09 GMT -5
It sounds like what informed the guy about what a pipe should look like is his dad’s pipes... being the way he was used to seeing them. I am guessing that they weren’t high dollar pipes, if that is the case why not make them look new? A good canvas on where to try out restoration practice.
Jesse raises some good points though on collectible pipes... thought provoking thread, and things to convey to a pipe restorer when sending pipes out to a pipe repairman.
I sent some pipes out to Mike Myers for restoration work, one was a Pre-Republic Peterson, and a tobacconist tried to tell me that Mike topped it, because the edges were too sharp. I went back and looked at the before and after pictures, and the guy was wrong... Mike just aggressively worked on the rim char without being overly aggressive... that rim hadn’t changed.
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cgvt
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Post by cgvt on Dec 31, 2018 22:42:43 GMT -5
I just do cheap pipes for me. I try to get pipes that are in bad enough shape to be a challenge. I fix them up, smoke them for a while and then I usually just end up giving them away, so I really doesn't much matter.
I think I would be afraid to do a collection pipe. I am not that experienced, confident, or frankly, that good.
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Post by Dramatwist on Dec 31, 2018 22:47:03 GMT -5
I just do cheap pipes for me. I try to get pipes that are in bad enough shape to be a challenge. I fix them up, smoke them for a while and then I usually just end up giving them away, so I really doesn't much matter. I think I would be afraid to do a collection pipe. I am not that experienced, confident, or frankly, that good. ...don't sell yourself short, Jim... |
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Jan 1, 2019 1:52:00 GMT -5
A couple of years ago, a well known seller picked up a very used 1920's era gold banded Barling at auction, a pipe that had clear signs of heavy use, a pretty messed up rim, etc. He then did a deep cosmetic restoration job on it and put it back up for auction, claiming that the pipe had, and I quote, "somehow survived in this clean condition", passing it off as a little used pipe. Let me guess, the "Shiny Pipes" guy ? |
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Jan 1, 2019 4:12:18 GMT -5
A couple of years ago, a well known seller picked up a very used 1920's era gold banded Barling at auction, a pipe that had clear signs of heavy use, a pretty messed up rim, etc. He then did a deep cosmetic restoration job on it and put it back up for auction, claiming that the pipe had, and I quote, "somehow survived in this clean condition", passing it off as a little used pipe. Let me guess, the "Shiny Pipes" guy ? Nope, not Shinypipes. But it's the sort of thing that I would have expected from Shinypipes. |
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priest2705
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Post by priest2705 on Jan 1, 2019 9:31:42 GMT -5
That one I would try to top you wont lose that much. Personally I just clean em real good inside and out they don't look new but I know they are clean. I am more of a my living room is cluttered mess but the back of fridge is spotless. That is my own (rather limited) approach as well. I clean them, make them presentable and smokable. But, I haven't gone the way of topping a bowl yet. I don't mind a few knocks and scrapes, adds character |
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piffyr
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Post by piffyr on Jan 1, 2019 12:20:38 GMT -5
In general, I agree with most of the statements here. If you're restoring a pipe for yourself, you have carte blanche to do as you please, though I think it's always a good idea to adhere as close as possible to the original intent of the maker. If you're working for a client, it's their choice ... up to a point. With collectible pipes the rules are a bit different, condition matters as in original condition, not recreated condition. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Absolutely this. Two examples that relate to the Guildhall in the OP... Sasieni One Dot:  Dr. Grabow Grand Duke:  Notice the difference? Both rims have been refinished, but the Sasieni still retains some of its dings though softened a bit for a better overall appearance. The Grabow, on the other hand, has has significant portions of the outer rim rebuilt with additional material to make it "close to new" as the client requested. That's something that I would be very reluctant to do on a pipe that is as collectible as the One Dot. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 1, 2019 12:22:38 GMT -5
In general, I agree with most of the statements here. If you're restoring a pipe for yourself, you have carte blanche to do as you please, though I think it's always a good idea to adhere as close as possible to the original intent of the maker. If you're working for a client, it's their choice ... up to a point. With collectible pipes the rules are a bit different, condition matters as in original condition, not recreated condition. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Absolutely this. Two examples that relate to the Guildhall in the OP... Sasieni One Dot: Dr. Grabow Grand Duke: Notice the difference? Both rims have been refinished, but the Sasieni still retains some of its dings though softened a bit for a better overall appearance. The Grabow, on the other hand, has has significant portions of the outer rim rebuilt with additional material to make it "close to new" as the client requested. That's something that I would be very reluctant to do on a pipe that is as collectible as the One Dot. Did you do those restorations? |
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piffyr
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Post by piffyr on Jan 1, 2019 12:25:05 GMT -5
Did you do those restorations? Yes. The Grabow has its own thread here somewhere. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 1, 2019 12:34:19 GMT -5
Did you do those restorations? Yes. The Grabow has its own thread here somewhere. I take back what I took back earlier. I suppose I'm returning it.... Never mind. Those restorations are phenomenal. |
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