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Post by libertysmoke on Feb 12, 2019 11:55:07 GMT -5
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Post by Legend Lover on Feb 12, 2019 12:04:20 GMT -5
Looks like they are. Seems that while tobacco is much cheaper in USA, there is more of an active push against it than there is in Europe.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 12:34:45 GMT -5
Much more to fear nationally from the healthcare mafia IMHO. It's far too extensive to state in this forum; however, there's a clear effort on their part from multiple fronts. It's a coordinated back door attack with powerful forces involved. Bottom line is it's going become increasingly more difficult for individuals who enjoy tobacco to continue swimming upstream.
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Post by McWiggins on Feb 12, 2019 12:35:54 GMT -5
In America, anything about tobacco or nicotine is seen as devil worship.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 12:46:53 GMT -5
In America, anything about tobacco or nicotine is seen as devil worship. I disagree; however, the healthcare mafia has taken it upon themselves to use any means possible to financially break users of tobacco to pad their bottom lines simply because smokers are a minority, politically unorganized and, therefore, low hanging fruit. They're doing it because they can. |
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Post by puffy on Feb 12, 2019 12:56:57 GMT -5
If I told you what my conservative friends here in Carolina say about the goings on in California I would get kicked out of here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 13:04:30 GMT -5
If I told you what my conservative friends here in Carolina say about the goings on in California I would get kicked out of here. With all due respect, I don't believe it's a matter of politics. It's just pure predator economics and the state of our healthcare system which allows it. |
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Post by stogiebear on Feb 12, 2019 13:11:06 GMT -5
If it were about conservatives and liberals, the current administration could have easily reversed the FDA regs in the last 2 years. The fact that they haven't - and they're proposing ways to expand them, like nicotine content limits, while taking ridiculous enforcement actions like that time they accused a shop of selling flavored cigarettes because they had Dunhill tins on their web site - shows that conservatives don't care about us any more than liberals.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 13:33:29 GMT -5
Interesting article, thanks for posting. It’s the politicians way of showing their power while strutting their feathers. Let’s keep this thread open👌👍👍
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Post by trailboss on Feb 12, 2019 14:26:08 GMT -5
It would take legislation passed by both houses and a presidential signature to rescind the FDA refs passed in ‘09 ain’t going to happen... should have never passed in the first place. Neither party is the champion of individual rights and liberties. It is sad that we have gotten to the point that a politician dare present legislation against tobacco, but that is where we are at. The law passed by the congress in 2009 does not allow the FDA to rid nicotine from the products, but they have the legal authority to get the levels down to non-addictive levels.... so no, it is not the current administrations fault. Read page 4 publichealthlawcenter.org/sites/default/files/resources/tclc-fda-impact.pdfThe current FDA chief is bound by law to follow the legislation. I know that it says “may” in there, but politicians and their appointees come and go, but the bureaucrats remain.... they do the driving and they always are geared towards taking words like “may” and running with it. A declarative will not or can not could have been in the legislation, but it wasn’t. Not looking for partisanship, just the truth. |
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Post by stogiebear on Feb 12, 2019 14:47:21 GMT -5
Sure, but the reason pipe tobacco and cigars are covered is that in 2016 the FDA made a regulatory decision to interpret the 2009 law as covering them (the "deeming regulation"). Since that decision was made by the agency without a vote from Congress, the agency can rescind the decision on its own authority. So Obama's people took the action and Trump's people are continuing and extending it - both parties are against us.
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Post by dervis on Feb 12, 2019 14:59:36 GMT -5
I don't have much of an issue with a state deciding a law in/for that state. I have issues when rules are made for EVERY state, but that is a different topic all together. Why people continue to stay , pay taxes, spend money, live, do anything for a state that specifically has it out for their way of life is what bothers and confuses to me.
A state has laws that benefit me I live in that state. A state makes enough laws that do not benefit me I leave that state. I personally have done it before. I feel more people need to realize this option.
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Post by Dramatwist on Feb 12, 2019 15:05:41 GMT -5
In America, anything about tobacco or nicotine is seen as devil worship. I disagree; however, the healthcare mafia has taken it upon themselves to use any means possible to financially break users of tobacco to pad their bottom lines simply because smokers are a minority, politically unorganized and, therefore, low hanging fruit. They're doing it because they can. My health care provider is a large HMO here in California. I go in for injections once a month and see my MD on a regular basis. Every single time I go in, I am asked by the person taking my blood pressure "Do you smoke?" I say "Yes." They say "Are you interested in quitting?" I say "No." They are relentless. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:19:06 GMT -5
You need a way way back machine Public Health Service Act of 1944 would be a nice start.
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Post by Legend Lover on Feb 12, 2019 15:20:25 GMT -5
Can I ask this relates question please...
What, in your opinion, is the deal with tobacco products... the effect that smoke has on the body or the effect that nicotine has on the body, or both...
If both, what do you think is their bigger concern? The smoke or the nicotine?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:29:17 GMT -5
Its the Tar in the smoke, nicotine is no worse than caffeine in many ways. There you have it one mans opinion.
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Post by Dramatwist on Feb 12, 2019 15:30:20 GMT -5
Can I ask this relates question please... What, in your opinion, is the deal with tobacco products... the effect that smoke has on the body or the effect that nicotine has on the body, or both... If both, what do you think is their bigger concern? The smoke or the nicotine? Thoughtful question, Andre, and I'm sure you'll get many different opinions. I am not qualified to comment authoritatively on either potential issue. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Feb 12, 2019 15:33:04 GMT -5
Thank you, @psycholime, for that opinion. And thank you, Dramatwist, for reminding me not to get my hopes up. 😉 |
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Post by peteguy on Feb 12, 2019 15:39:10 GMT -5
I disagree; however, the healthcare mafia has taken it upon themselves to use any means possible to financially break users of tobacco to pad their bottom lines simply because smokers are a minority, politically unorganized and, therefore, low hanging fruit. They're doing it because they can. My health care provider is a large HMO here in California. I go in for injections once a month and see my MD on a regular basis. Every single time I go in, I am asked by the person taking my blood pressure "Do you smoke?" I say "Yes." They say "Are you interested in quitting?" I say "No." They are relentless.. Next time your response should be - "smoke what?". When they say "cigarettes" you can say no. If they follow up with an inquisitive look and a "what do you smoke then?", you can say "Mugwort". |
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Post by Legend Lover on Feb 12, 2019 15:44:02 GMT -5
My health care provider is a large HMO here in California. I go in for injections once a month and see my MD on a regular basis. Every single time I go in, I am asked by the person taking my blood pressure "Do you smoke?" I say "Yes." They say "Are you interested in quitting?" I say "No." They are relentless.. Next time your response should be - "smoke what?". When they say "cigarettes" you can say no. If they follow up with an inquisitive look and a "what do you smoke then?", you can say "Mugwort". funny, that's what I say when they ask if I smoke... 'cigarettes? Nope.' |
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Post by peteguy on Feb 12, 2019 15:47:20 GMT -5
Yup, they always jump right on the cigarette answer.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 15:51:15 GMT -5
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Post by Legend Lover on Feb 12, 2019 15:54:03 GMT -5
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Post by trailboss on Feb 12, 2019 16:09:52 GMT -5
Sure, but the reason pipe tobacco and cigars are covered is that in 2016 the FDA made a regulatory decision to interpret the 2009 law as covering them (the "deeming regulation"). Since that decision was made by the agency without a vote from Congress, the agency can rescind the decision on its own authority. So Obama's people took the action and Trump's people are continuing and extending it - both parties are against us. Theron lies the rub, the legislation from 2009 gave them regulatory oversight to make them decisions. The lions share of the bureaucrats operating at the FDA are holdovers from previous administrations, and are the de facto “experts” that make them kinds of decisions routinely. The appointed heads tend to guide the huge ship, while underlings do the regulating. Any expectation of having some sort of tobacco champion going Chuck Norris on behalf of pipe and cigar smokers is unrealistic. A piece of crap then, a piece of crap now. Had the legislation not passed in 2009, none of this would exist. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 16:35:54 GMT -5
I disagree; however, the healthcare mafia has taken it upon themselves to use any means possible to financially break users of tobacco to pad their bottom lines simply because smokers are a minority, politically unorganized and, therefore, low hanging fruit. They're doing it because they can. My health care provider is a large HMO here in California. I go in for injections once a month and see my MD on a regular basis. Every single time I go in, I am asked by the person taking my blood pressure "Do you smoke?" I say "Yes." They say "Are you interested in quitting?" I say "No." They are relentless. VA treats me like a criminal because I still smoke a pipe. Back in the day I wasn't told I couldn't serve in a combat MOS because I drank and smoked. It affects my current treatment. Everybody just gives me the worst diagnosis, passes me on to the next specialist, does CYA and goes home for dinner. Food for thought y'all. I may have to look elsewhere shorty but what is life worth? I wasn't always on VA but am starting to understand the shortfalls of government healthcare; unfortunately, the alternatives are no better - Especially for smokers. |
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Post by Mac on Feb 12, 2019 16:50:41 GMT -5
Re the OP:
This would appear to be more of a revenue increasing move than an anti smoking plot. From the o.p.'s link:
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Post by sperrytops on Feb 12, 2019 17:02:33 GMT -5
Can I ask this relates question please... What, in your opinion, is the deal with tobacco products... the effect that smoke has on the body or the effect that nicotine has on the body, or both... If both, what do you think is their bigger concern? The smoke or the nicotine? Paddy, sad to say that in the States, and especially California, it doesn't seem to matter anymore. It's all one big evil in the health care industry's mind. And they have a very big lobby. As do insurers who don't want to spend money on treating lung cancer. |
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Post by PhantomWolf on Feb 12, 2019 17:25:07 GMT -5
I disagree; however, the healthcare mafia has taken it upon themselves to use any means possible to financially break users of tobacco to pad their bottom lines simply because smokers are a minority, politically unorganized and, therefore, low hanging fruit. They're doing it because they can. My health care provider is a large HMO here in California. I go in for injections once a month and see my MD on a regular basis. Every single time I go in, I am asked by the person taking my blood pressure "Do you smoke?" I say "Yes." They say "Are you interested in quitting?" I say "No." They are relentless.
I don't get on well with my doctor at the VA. She's the type of square that thinks a bottle of wine is reckless drinking. haha But she and I were in agreement when she said worrying about quitting is worse for you than smoking 2-3 packs a month.
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 12, 2019 18:01:49 GMT -5
Can I ask this relates question please... What, in your opinion, is the deal with tobacco products... the effect that smoke has on the body or the effect that nicotine has on the body, or both... If both, what do you think is their bigger concern? The smoke or the nicotine? Paddy, sad to say that in the States, and especially California, it doesn't seem to matter anymore. It's all one big evil in the health care industry's mind. And they have a very big lobby. As do insurers who don't want to spend money on treating lung cancer. Why would the health care lobby be against smoking, as it generates revenue for their industry? |
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 12, 2019 18:05:03 GMT -5
The country is run by the bureaucrats and their rules. I am reading a book about the current state of the legal system that says that on average each American commits 3 felonies every day.
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