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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 26, 2019 12:42:10 GMT -5
I've posted this question on other forums so I decided to ask it here also.
I've been smoking a tin of D&R's London Dock and found that I like it. This version has a nice cherry vanilla flavor IN MY OPINION and I will probably buy more of it.
I checked tobaccoreviews.com and read about the older, discontinued versions but I can't find any real history about London Dock. Who produced it first and when? Who made the version with the Tonquin flavoring? When did it switch from an English Blend to an aromatic?
Inquiring minds... well, at least, I want answers. I'm working on a blog post about London Dock and would like to add in some accurate history.
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Feb 26, 2019 13:04:10 GMT -5
I can't imagine anything worse than my favourite English blend becoming an aromatic. I imagine there were more than a few unhappy customers.
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 26, 2019 13:27:02 GMT -5
I can't imagine anything worse than my favourite English blend becoming an aromatic. I imagine there were more than a few unhappy customers. You mean other than a good aromatic blend being turned into an English? That's one of the interesting things I'm finding. Some sources refer to London Dock having rose essence and Tonquin bean flavoring. The American Tobacco version was an English. Middleton's version was rum flavored. There was a Sail version floral essences and sweet/sugar. No one knows which was the original or if any of them were like the original. So far, I've found out that London Dock was originally made by Bloch Brothers in Wheeling, WV. before the 1960s. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2019 15:27:17 GMT -5
I remember it being on the shelf in my local drugstore circa 1970's. That must have been the Middleton version. JimInks may have the answer. |
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Post by trailboss on Feb 26, 2019 16:10:57 GMT -5
I don’t understand a blend changing hands and altering the recipe.
That is like going into a restaurant, ordering apple pie only to be given a slice of chocolate pie.
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 26, 2019 16:27:37 GMT -5
I don’t understand a blend changing hands and altering the recipe. That is like going into a restaurant, ordering apple pie only to be given a slice of chocolate pie. I think it's more like ordering an apple pie from different restaurant but some have cinnamon while another one has nutmeg and walnuts. The third one just has apples and sugar. LOL. Seriously, I'm beginning to believe that the original was an aromatic and one of the later companies made lost the recipe and made it an English. Mark Ryan said he found an old London Dock smoker who helped finalize the current version. |
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Post by That Falls Guy on Feb 26, 2019 17:16:08 GMT -5
I can't imagine anything worse than my favourite English blend becoming an aromatic. I imagine there were more than a few unhappy customers. You mean other than a good aromatic blend being turned into an English? That's one of the interesting things I'm finding. Some sources refer to London Dock having rose essence and Tonquin bean flavoring. The American Tobacco version was an English. Middleton's version was rum flavored. There was a Sail version floral essences and sweet/sugar. No one knows which was the original or if any of them were like the original. So far, I've found out that London Dock was originally made by Bloch Brothers in Wheeling, WV. before the 1960s. To be more precise, Joe, I believe that is was made by the Christian Aper Tobacco Company, which was a division of Bloch Brothers. Here is a pic showing a 1941 copyright.......
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 26, 2019 17:28:40 GMT -5
You mean other than a good aromatic blend being turned into an English? That's one of the interesting things I'm finding. Some sources refer to London Dock having rose essence and Tonquin bean flavoring. The American Tobacco version was an English. Middleton's version was rum flavored. There was a Sail version floral essences and sweet/sugar. No one knows which was the original or if any of them were like the original. So far, I've found out that London Dock was originally made by Bloch Brothers in Wheeling, WV. before the 1960s. To be more precise, Joe, I believe that is was made by the Christian Aper Tobacco Company, which was a division of Bloch Brothers.
Can you tell me more about them? Maybe a link to more information? |
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Post by That Falls Guy on Feb 26, 2019 17:31:38 GMT -5
That's about all I know about it. Bloch Brothers bought out a lot of smaller companies, of which Christian Aper was one.
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Post by kbareit on Feb 26, 2019 17:31:44 GMT -5
I found an article about Bloch Bros. 75th anniversary. It stated that they bought the Christian Aper tobacco co. of St. Louis in 1952 and that London Dock was one of the blends that came over with the purchase.
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Post by That Falls Guy on Feb 26, 2019 17:44:47 GMT -5
That sounds about right. Christian Aper Company started in 1859. So I guess the answer to Joe's original question is that London Dock was originally made by Christian Aper Tobacco Company.
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 26, 2019 18:15:49 GMT -5
I found it but your spelling is off. It was the Christian Peper Company.
"In 1952, another tobacco business that had developed from a wholesale grocery business was acquired -- Christian Peper Tobacco Company. This St. Louis tobacco manufacturing concern had been founded in 1852 and originally produced plug chewing tobacco and twist. In the 1860's, the Peper Company made its original smoking tobacco. The high-grade smoking tobacco business was entered into during the late 1920's with the development of Wellington and Crosby Square."
Now I just have to track down some information on that company.
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Post by zambini on Feb 27, 2019 1:33:53 GMT -5
Maybe a little off topic but here in Mexico you can buy London Dock made by Norma de México. It's a plum flavoured black cavendish and burley blend.
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 27, 2019 8:28:37 GMT -5
Maybe a little off topic but here in Mexico you can buy London Dock made by Norma de México. It's a plum flavoured black cavendish and burley blend. I've heard about it but haven't talked to anyone who liked it. Have you tried that version? |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Feb 27, 2019 8:43:06 GMT -5
You mean other than a good aromatic blend being turned into an English? That's one of the interesting things I'm finding. Some sources refer to London Dock having rose essence and Tonquin bean flavoring. The American Tobacco version was an English. Middleton's version was rum flavored. There was a Sail version floral essences and sweet/sugar. No one knows which was the original or if any of them were like the original. So far, I've found out that London Dock was originally made by Bloch Brothers in Wheeling, WV. before the 1960s. To be more precise, Joe, I believe that is was made by the Christian Aper Tobacco Company, which was a division of Bloch Brothers. Here is a pic showing a 1941 copyright.......
I think in the 40s most people in America smoked burley blends. Aro probably held its presence in second place during that time period. I may be off here, but I seem to remember reading that somewhere. |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Feb 27, 2019 8:46:24 GMT -5
Maybe a little off topic but here in Mexico you can buy London Dock made by Norma de México. It's a plum flavoured black cavendish and burley blend. Im going to buy a couple pouches of that brand. Don't they make a version of old chum as well? They have some crazy blends, if I remember right. |
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 27, 2019 9:30:22 GMT -5
To be more precise, Joe, I believe that is was made by the Christian Aper Tobacco Company, which was a division of Bloch Brothers. Here is a pic showing a 1941 copyright.......
I think in the 40s most people in America smoked burley blends. Aro probably held its presence in second place during that time period. I may be off here, but I seem to remember reading that somewhere. You have to enlarge the photo a bit but what you take to be an "A" in the last name is a "P". What looks like the inside leg of the A is the "e" in Peper. |
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Post by That Falls Guy on Feb 27, 2019 10:02:15 GMT -5
I see it now! Well, at least it got you on the right track!
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Post by mel64us on Feb 27, 2019 10:30:15 GMT -5
I've posted this question on other forums so I decided to ask it here also. I've been smoking a tin of D&R's London Dock and found that I like it. This version has a nice cherry vanilla flavor IN MY OPINION and I will probably buy more of it. I checked tobaccoreviews.com and read about the older, discontinued versions but I can't find any real history about London Dock. Who produced it first and when? Who made the version with the Tonquin flavoring? When did it switch from an English Blend to an aromatic? Inquiring minds... well, at least, I want answers. I'm working on a blog post about London Dock and would like to add in some accurate history. Milan Tobacconist sells a blend called "Our London Dock". I have not tried it yet, but the reviews tell me it's very close to the original. |
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 27, 2019 10:51:16 GMT -5
I see it now! Well, at least it got you on the right track! Yes it did and I appreciate it. I kept searching for Christian Aper and kept finding Peper so I took a closer look at the packaging. The loose end I'm trying to track down now is where does the Sail version of London Dock come into play. The packaging for Sail London Dock looks to be an exact copy of the Peper version. |
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Post by pappyjoe on Feb 27, 2019 10:54:59 GMT -5
I've posted this question on other forums so I decided to ask it here also. I've been smoking a tin of D&R's London Dock and found that I like it. This version has a nice cherry vanilla flavor IN MY OPINION and I will probably buy more of it. I checked tobaccoreviews.com and read about the older, discontinued versions but I can't find any real history about London Dock. Who produced it first and when? Who made the version with the Tonquin flavoring? When did it switch from an English Blend to an aromatic? Inquiring minds... well, at least, I want answers. I'm working on a blog post about London Dock and would like to add in some accurate history. Milan Tobacconist sells a blend called "Our London Dock". I have not tried it yet, but the reviews tell me it's very close to the original. The Milan version is very close to the Middleton version which was made until John Middleton became a subsidary of Altria in 2007. |
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Post by zambini on Mar 4, 2019 0:38:11 GMT -5
Maybe a little off topic but here in Mexico you can buy London Dock made by Norma de México. It's a plum flavoured black cavendish and burley blend. I've heard about it but haven't talked to anyone who liked it. Have you tried that version? I've tried it. It's an aromatic for sure. It's pretty sweet and plum flavoured. It's all black tobacco and its cut is rather choppy more than ribbon like. It's one of the better OTC blends here but not a personal favorite. |
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Post by zambini on Mar 4, 2019 0:42:21 GMT -5
Maybe a little off topic but here in Mexico you can buy London Dock made by Norma de México. It's a plum flavoured black cavendish and burley blend. Im going to buy a couple pouches of that brand. Don't they make a version of old chum as well? They have some crazy blends, if I remember right. The main OTC here are Vermont Maple, Flanders, London Dock, Kentucky Club, Kentucky Club Aromatic,Bushnell Creek, Kahlua, and Kahlua Cherry. Those are all made by Norma de México. You can also find a line from Park Lane and Hampton. |
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