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Post by trailboss on May 9, 2019 22:26:50 GMT -5
I smoked one partial cigarette in my life, and thought I was going to have collapsed lungs...got a few in my mouth when I picked up the wrong beer can in the days of my Yute....but I have always hated the littered butts on the landscape. I worked for a fortune 500 company and the president put in a climate controlled smoking gazebo...he simply asked that all smokers use the receptacles for waste...that was too much for the cigarette smokers and after a few months of them throwing butts on the ground, the gazebo was removed, and the men and women found themselves out at the curb to get their fix...getting sprayed by rainwater from the passing rigs. Cigarettes disposed from car windows are responsible for starting fires also...my dad smoked Pall Mall non- filters because in the Army, he could tear the butt, dump the tobacco and roll-up the biodegradable paper, resulting in less "field days" where they had to pick up trash... I don't think anyone smokes non-filters now.
www.resilience.org/stories/2019-05-08/cigarette-butt-pollution/Sadly, cigar smokers and pipe smokers I think are guilty by association, as people associate smoking as a nasty habit, even though we do not contribute to the nonsense. |
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Post by Ronv69 on May 9, 2019 22:44:17 GMT -5
I have seen this many times.
When I was in the Scouts, the first thing we did when we got to a campsite was to police the grounds and pick up trash, which was mostly cigarette butts before we set up our tents.
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Post by trailboss on May 9, 2019 22:53:59 GMT -5
I know that we used to give horses a cigar to kill any worms they had so...if that was indeed a cure, I have a hard time finding fault with this, knowing a little bit about fish and aqueous susceptibility....
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Post by smellthehatfirst on May 10, 2019 0:48:18 GMT -5
The craziest damn thing about acetate filters is that they don't do anything. They make a cigarette smoke awful, but they don't actually filter anything out of the smoke stream.
The brown color found in a used cigarette filter is artificially induced. They dip the acetate filters in an acidic solution that turns brown upon exposure to alkaline cigarette smoke.
The filter is entirely decorative, but the filter alone is responsible for thousands of tons of waste every year.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on May 10, 2019 0:50:16 GMT -5
I worked for a fortune 500 company and the president put in a climate controlled smoking gazebo...he simply asked that all smokers use the receptacles for waste...that was too much for the cigarette smokers and after a few months of them throwing butts on the ground, the gazebo was removed, and the men and women found themselves out at the curb to get their fix...getting sprayed by rainwater from the passing rigs. The cigarette companies have always worried about butt pollution, and they used to hand out "pocket ashtrays" to dispose of butts. What stopped that practice was that focus groups indicated that flicking butts away from the smoker was a core part of the identity as a smoker. Litter as rebellion. A horrible thing. |
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stone
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Post by stone on May 10, 2019 2:53:31 GMT -5
It's always been a pet peeve of mine. Littering with cigarette butts just doesn't seem to count!
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Post by elric on May 10, 2019 5:56:35 GMT -5
I smoked one partial cigarette in my life, and thought I was going to have collapsed lungs...got a few in my mouth when I picked up the wrong beer can in the days of my Yute....but I have always hated the littered butts on the landscape. I worked for a fortune 500 company and the president put in a climate controlled smoking gazebo...he simply asked that all smokers use the receptacles for waste...that was too much for the cigarette smokers and after a few months of them throwing butts on the ground, the gazebo was removed, and the men and women found themselves out at the curb to get their fix...getting sprayed by rainwater from the passing rigs. Cigarettes disposed from car windows are responsible for starting fires also...my dad smoked Pall Mall non- filters because in the Army, he could tear the butt, dump the tobacco and roll-up the biodegradable paper, resulting in less "field days" where they had to pick up trash... I don't think anyone smokes non-filters now.
www.resilience.org/stories/2019-05-08/cigarette-butt-pollution/Sadly, cigar smokers and pipe smokers I think are guilty by association, as people associate smoking as a nasty habit, even though we do not contribute to the nonsense. Over the last 20 years I've spent quite a bit of time in hospitals. The large public hospital 20 kilometers away has a very strict non-smoking policy. It's not unusual to see patients in gowns with an IV pole in one hand, a cigarette in the other. Security goes through stages where they'll turn a blind eye & at other times have a zero tolerance where they hand out $500 fines to smokers. Every single time where security turns a blind eye, smokers will flick their butts wherever. In spots where smokers will congregate, the piles of accumulated butts is not only disgusting, it is something that's so obvious that it will draw complaints that I'm sure leads to the zero tolerance crackdowns. Whenever I try to explain this to my fellow patients, they just shrug their shoulders as if to say 'not my problem'. There's one word for it; ignorance. The last time I was admitted there I found my own little spot to smoke my pipe in peace. Security left me be. While on the subject, the attitude of privately run hospitals is very different. A smaller local hospital that's run by Catholic health, has a courtyard where patients can smoke. Despite the 'smoke-free zone' signs that are required by law, no-one gives the patients a hard time. In actual fact, security stumbled across me twice smoking my special medicine (for nerve pain) where I played innocent & said g'day despite the overwhelmingly obvious aroma. Both times the guards just grinned. Bless them. |
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Post by Darin on May 10, 2019 7:18:31 GMT -5
About 10 years back, I was on my bike behind a car and saw the driver dump the entire ashtray into the road at a stop light. Due to the timing, I knew we'd be stopped again at the next block. So, I picked up the butts quickly and, at the next light, told the driver "you dropped this". They started to flip me off and drive away so the hand full of butts went into their back window. I'm sure that didn't change the ignorance or attitude of the moron but it made me feel better. I remember yelling out, "the world is NOT your toilet"!!
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Post by bigwoolie on May 10, 2019 13:44:22 GMT -5
Many, many year ago I cowboyed on a ranch in Wyoming, outside of Cody. I smoked cigarettes some, and the cigarette-sized Swisser Sweets when up in the back country riding fence and checking strays. I ALWAYS ground the stub out on heel of my boot, pulling my foot out of the stirrup and bringing it up where I could reach it. (I was young and limber then). I then dropped the cold filter in my saddle bags to be emptied when I got back to the ranch in the evening.
I hated the site of butts in the wilderness, and the thought of starting another Yellowstone fire gave me the cold sweats.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 14:14:29 GMT -5
Glass House's.
Throw the first stone.
There are many former cigarette smokers on this forum.
From field stripping to careless littering, I understand the scope of this thread, but there is an underlying pile on mentality that just perpetuates grief in general for all smokers.
Pipe smokers dumping on cigarette smokers is the snake biting its own tail, imo.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 15:00:48 GMT -5
+1
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Post by Darin on May 10, 2019 15:03:54 GMT -5
I did throw the first stone ... actually it was butts.  This is not "piling on" the smoking aspect. It's the littering of butts which pipe smokers do not do. If we were going around tossing our pipe cleaners on the ground in public then that would be a closer equivalent. You're just trying to be truculent again, aren't you? LOL |
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Post by trailboss on May 10, 2019 15:44:07 GMT -5
I think it is just the litterbugs biting their own tail.
I thought I was pretty clear about how my dad disposed of his butts responsibly, and Dewayne did the same.... that, is the difference between responsible smokers and non responsible ones.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 19:08:41 GMT -5
I did throw the first stone ... actually it was butts. This is not "piling on" the smoking aspect. It's the littering of butts which pipe smokers do not do. If we were going around tossing our pipe cleaners on the ground in public then that would be a closer equivalent. You're just trying to be truculent again, aren't you? LOL Perhaps. |
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Post by smellthehatfirst on May 10, 2019 20:08:07 GMT -5
I did throw the first stone ... actually it was butts. This is not "piling on" the smoking aspect. It's the littering of butts which pipe smokers do not do. If we were going around tossing our pipe cleaners on the ground in public then that would be a closer equivalent. You're just trying to be truculent again, aren't you? LOL I admit I do freely dump ash out of a bowl, right into the gutter.
My theory is that it's biodegradable, and the nicotine content should be minimal. Yes, my ash will end up in the Hudson river sometimes, but that should be pretty safe for flora and fauna.
I do not dump pipe cleaners so haphazardly, of course
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 20:13:37 GMT -5
Most my cigarette smoking life was none filters and when out in public I always field striped them so as not to leave any evidence. Use to really hate it when someone smoking filter cigarettes would come to the house and flick the butt into the yard. Always made them pick it before leaving. And just never understood the littering pigs driving on the road flinging there trash on to others property and the highways. I reckon if your raised by a pig, you'll be a pig.
And ash aint littering.
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Post by Legend Lover on May 11, 2019 5:39:18 GMT -5
The craziest damn thing about acetate filters is that they don't do anything. They make a cigarette smoke awful, but they don't actually filter anything out of the smoke stream. The brown color found in a used cigarette filter is artificially induced. They dip the acetate filters in an acidic solution that turns brown upon exposure to alkaline cigarette smoke. The filter is entirely decorative, but the filter alone is responsible for thousands of tons of waste every year. I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that. In school we had plastic bottles with a hole cut out of the cap so you could put a cigarette in the hole. We then put a wad of cotton wool behind the cap and lit the cigarette, using the bottle to 'smoke' it by squeezing the bottle. When the cigarette was finished, sure the filter was brown, but so was the cotton wool. Same with the fact that our pipe cleaners go brown when we're cleaning out our pipes. I think that's the tar. That said, you're right in the sense the the filters don't really filter anything out, otherwise the cotton wool wouldn't be brown. I'm just not so sure about the 'fake brown' you mention. You may be right, but, if they do put something in the filter to make it go brown, it's kinda redundant since the filter will go brown anyway, like the cotton wool does. |
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Post by smellthehatfirst on May 11, 2019 17:03:51 GMT -5
The craziest damn thing about acetate filters is that they don't do anything. They make a cigarette smoke awful, but they don't actually filter anything out of the smoke stream. The brown color found in a used cigarette filter is artificially induced. They dip the acetate filters in an acidic solution that turns brown upon exposure to alkaline cigarette smoke. The filter is entirely decorative, but the filter alone is responsible for thousands of tons of waste every year. I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that. In school we had plastic bottles with a hole cut out of the cap so you could put a cigarette in the hole. We then put a wad of cotton wool behind the cap and lit the cigarette, using the bottle to 'smoke' it by squeezing the bottle. When the cigarette was finished, sure the filter was brown, but so was the cotton wool. Same with the fact that our pipe cleaners go brown when we're cleaning out our pipes. I think that's the tar. That said, you're right in the sense the the filters don't really filter anything out, otherwise the cotton wool wouldn't be brown. I'm just not so sure about the 'fake brown' you mention. You may be right, but, if they do put something in the filter to make it go brown, it's kinda redundant since the filter will go brown anyway, like the cotton wool does.
They experimented with other filter materials. Cotton was a popular choice. One American brand tried on chrysotile asbestos. But acetate ended up dominant.
Cotton is hard to shape into a filter millions of times a day at industrial scale.
Asbestos was easy to shape, but the draw through a cigarette with an asbestos filter was poor. The expense was non-trivial.
Acetate was, of course, the poorest filter material. It's an inert plastic. Nothing "sticks" to it. But it's inexpensive, it's easy to mass produce in a pre-molded form, and if you dope it with an acid, it convincingly turns brown.
These do absolutely nothing for your health. None of them did. The "tars" are the flavor. The "tars" contain the nicotine. Anything that successfully filters out "tars" leads the smoker to smoke more, to get the desired satisfaction.
The less effective the filter, the happier the smoker is.
There are two fascinating books with lengthy discussions of the filter con job. I'm sure I've recommended both of them on here before.
- Ashes to Ashes, by Richard Kluger
This was written by a journalist, not an epidemiologist or a historian, so it comes off as a history of Phillip Morris as much as a history of the cigarette, or the conspiracy to deceive the public. That doesn't make it any less interesting.
- The Cigarette Century, by Allan Brandt
This book is really two books stapled together, both fascinating. Allan Brandt is a historian, specifically a historian of medicine, so he's much better prepared to tackle some of the "big" topics, and some of the complex/frustrating details of industry documents.
The first book is a cultural history of the cigarette in America. Where the heck did it come from? Why did people start smoking them in vast quantities in the 20th century?
The second book tackles specifically the problem that got the entire industry in hot water: the grand conspiracy to suppress information about smoking and health, and even go on to lie to the public. This is where it really gets into the weeds. The discussion of filter cigarettes is intense, and interesting.
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Post by Legend Lover on May 11, 2019 17:18:57 GMT -5
I'm not sure it's as clear cut as that. In school we had plastic bottles with a hole cut out of the cap so you could put a cigarette in the hole. We then put a wad of cotton wool behind the cap and lit the cigarette, using the bottle to 'smoke' it by squeezing the bottle. When the cigarette was finished, sure the filter was brown, but so was the cotton wool. Same with the fact that our pipe cleaners go brown when we're cleaning out our pipes. I think that's the tar. That said, you're right in the sense the the filters don't really filter anything out, otherwise the cotton wool wouldn't be brown. I'm just not so sure about the 'fake brown' you mention. You may be right, but, if they do put something in the filter to make it go brown, it's kinda redundant since the filter will go brown anyway, like the cotton wool does.
They experimented with other filter materials. Cotton was a popular choice. One American brand tried on chrysotile asbestos. But acetate ended up dominant.
Cotton is hard to shape into a filter millions of times a day at industrial scale.
Asbestos was easy to shape, but the draw through a cigarette with an asbestos filter was poor. The expense was non-trivial.
Acetate was, of course, the poorest filter material. It's an inert plastic. Nothing "sticks" to it. But it's inexpensive, it's easy to mass produce in a pre-molded form, and if you dope it with an acid, it convincingly turns brown.
These do absolutely nothing for your health. None of them did. The "tars" are the flavor. The "tars" contain the nicotine. Anything that successfully filters out "tars" leads the smoker to smoke more, to get the desired satisfaction.
The less effective the filter, the happier the smoker is.
There are two fascinating books with lengthy discussions of the filter con job. I'm sure I've recommended both of them on here before.
- Ashes to Ashes, by Richard Kluger
This was written by a journalist, not an epidemiologist or a historian, so it comes off as a history of Phillip Morris as much as a history of the cigarette, or the conspiracy to deceive the public. That doesn't make it any less interesting.
- The Cigarette Century, by Allan Brandt
This book is really two books stapled together, both fascinating. Allan Brandt is a historian, specifically a historian of medicine, so he's much better prepared to tackle some of the "big" topics, and some of the complex/frustrating details of industry documents.
The first book is a cultural history of the cigarette in America. Where the heck did it come from? Why did people start smoking them in vast quantities in the 20th century?
The second book tackles specifically the problem that got the entire industry in hot water: the grand conspiracy to suppress information about smoking and health, and even go on to lie to the public. This is where it really gets into the weeds. The discussion of filter cigarettes is intense, and interesting.
cheers for that. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 21:21:51 GMT -5
Had to pick up thousands of them in my youth. I always wished I could shove each one down the person's throat with a fork who threw them down.
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