herman
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Post by herman on May 10, 2019 11:33:51 GMT -5
Hi all got another question, Is there a difference to the taste of tobacco in different briars that were dug up in different parts of the world , as in Italy compared to other reigons of the world. thanks for your replies . Herman
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Post by puffy on May 10, 2019 15:05:50 GMT -5
I know where my pipes were made..I have no idea though where the briar they're made from was grown.
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Spartacus
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Post by Spartacus on May 10, 2019 15:46:10 GMT -5
I know where my pipes were made..I have no idea though where the briar they're made from was grown. I have pipes that say they use Mediterranean Briar but that's as close as I have seen to naming a location.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 16:02:01 GMT -5
I have many briars that are stamped Italy, Algerian or Greek briar. It’s those stamped “imported briar “ are the ones I most often concerned about..
Yes I do find that many tobacco’s smoke much differently depending on the region of the briar. Only thing I’ll add is.....I never had a bad smoke in any of my Algerian or Greek briar Pipes. Italian can be hit or miss for me.....same with those marked “ imported briar “....JMHO......YMMV.
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Post by sperrytops on May 10, 2019 16:04:34 GMT -5
Italian pipes almost always use Italian briar. Other pipe makers will either use Algerian briar or Greek briar. I believe the Algerian briar is a bit cheaper than the Greek briar and you generally see that briar in commercial manufactured pipes, and the Greek briar in higher end custom pipes. I could be wrong, so other thoughts certainly welcome.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 16:25:10 GMT -5
Italian pipes almost always use Italian briar. Other pipe makers will either use Algerian briar or Greek briar. I believe the Algerian briar is a bit cheaper than the Greek briar and you generally see that briar in commercial manufactured pipes, and the Greek briar in higher end custom pipes. I could be wrong, so other thoughts certainly welcome. Back in the 70’s and prior the best briar on the market was Algerian, especially the oil cured Algerian briar. That’s what Dunhill used from ‘68 and prior. For me nothing smokes quite like a pipe made with either Algerian or Greek briar. Even the makers that use the current stock of Greek briar make some superb smoking pipes👍👍👍
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Post by sperrytops on May 10, 2019 17:25:03 GMT -5
Italian pipes almost always use Italian briar. Other pipe makers will either use Algerian briar or Greek briar. I believe the Algerian briar is a bit cheaper than the Greek briar and you generally see that briar in commercial manufactured pipes, and the Greek briar in higher end custom pipes. I could be wrong, so other thoughts certainly welcome. Back in the 70’s and prior the best briar on the market was Algerian, especially the oil cured Algerian briar. That’s what Dunhill used from ‘68 and prior. For me nothing smokes quite like a pipe made with either Algerian or Greek briar. Even the makers that use the current stock of Greek briar make some superb smoking pipes👍👍👍 Good call out , Ted. I had forgotten that at one point Dunhill was using the Algerian briar and curing it with oil.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on May 10, 2019 17:28:30 GMT -5
Hi all got another question, Is there a difference to the taste of tobacco in different briars that were dug up in different parts of the world , as in Italy compared to other reigons of the world. thanks for your replies . Herman Possibly on the break in period, but after a nice hard cake has been formed, I doubt there's any difference- at least to my palate.
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Post by monbla256 on May 10, 2019 21:07:16 GMT -5
Italian pipes almost always use Italian briar. Other pipe makers will either use Algerian briar or Greek briar. I believe the Algerian briar is a bit cheaper than the Greek briar and you generally see that briar in commercial manufactured pipes, and the Greek briar in higher end custom pipes. I could be wrong, so other thoughts certainly welcome. Back in the 70’s and prior the best briar on the market was Algerian, especially the oil cured Algerian briar. That’s what Dunhill used from ‘68 and prior. For me nothing smokes quite like a pipe made with either Algerian or Greek briar. Even the makers that use the current stock of Greek briar make some superb smoking pipes👍👍👍 Ted, It's correct to say that Dunhill used oil cured Algerian briar in their pipes but it was used only in the Shell series and the Bruyerre series. For the rest of there lines, they used oil cured Creek and Italian briar. Sadly with the unavailability of Algerian briar the shells are not as gnarly as were the pre-68!
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Post by Dramatwist on May 10, 2019 21:19:45 GMT -5
...I think it has more to do with the way the briar is processed and worked... just my 2 cents...
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 21:38:53 GMT -5
Back in the 70’s and prior the best briar on the market was Algerian, especially the oil cured Algerian briar. That’s what Dunhill used from ‘68 and prior. For me nothing smokes quite like a pipe made with either Algerian or Greek briar. Even the makers that use the current stock of Greek briar make some superb smoking pipes👍👍👍 Ted, It's correct to say that Dunhill used oil cured Algerian briar in their pipes but it was used only in the Shell series and the Bruyerre series. For the rest of there lines, they used oil cured Creek and Italian briar. Sadly with the unavailability of Algerian briar the shells are not as gnarly as were the pre-68! Michael, Thanks for the clarification, which I was aware of and should have added in my example.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 22:38:29 GMT -5
...I think it has more to do with the way the briar is processed and worked... just my 2 cents... The best answer yet.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on May 10, 2019 23:27:45 GMT -5
Hi all got another question, Is there a difference to the taste of tobacco in different briars that were dug up in different parts of the world , as in Italy compared to other reigons of the world. thanks for your replies . Herman In my experience, not really. When a pipe is fresh and not broken in, the taste of the wood can come through, but after the bowl has formed a sufficient carbonized layer, that mostly or completely goes away. With the exception of very experienced carvers, and cutters, the vast majority of us can't tell whether a pipe is made from Algerian, Calabrian, Ligurian, or other Spanish or Grecian briar. But we love our myths, like the one about Dunhill using Algerian briar. Pick up a copy of the 1928 edition of "About Smoke" and you will read that they used Calabrian briar, which is from Italy, and they also used Grecian briar. They may very well have used some Algerian in the making of their shells at some point, but that's not where Dunhill says they sourced. Algerian briar was considered an inferior grade, too soft to hold up to use. You will find a lot of cheap "no-name" pipes that are stamped "Algerian Briar". Comoy and Barling did use Algerian briar and they both carried out their own harvesting operations in Algeria. They both like the working characteristics of Algerian briar, but were also very selective about what they ultimately used, and didn't use methods to speed up the curing process, preferring to air cure their wood for years before cutting, curing more before shaping, and curing it again before finishing. Barling was probably the only major maker who specialized in Algerian briar, at least until 1954, when they lost their harvesting operations due to the Algerian war for Independence, and they capitalized on the fascination that the popularity of Orientalism provided in the early years of the last century. They played up the myth of "old wood" that exists to this day. But reading their literature form the 1920's you won't find mention of 100, 150, or 200 year old wood. They used burls that were in the neighborhood of 65 years of age, which makes perfect sense.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 4:18:02 GMT -5
Dunhill did not start making their own pipes until 1920. Up until that time the pipes were imported from France and only finished by Dunhill. If you look at the very old catalogs you will see they had a good relationship with Sommer of Paris selling many Sommer figural pipes as their own.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 4:33:02 GMT -5
I have many briars that are stamped Italy, Algerian or Greek briar. It’s those stamped “imported briar “ are the ones I most often concerned about..
Yes I do find that many tobacco’s smoke much differently depending on the region of the briar. Only thing I’ll add is.....I never had a bad smoke in any of my Algerian or Greek briar Pipes. Italian can be hit or miss for me.....same with those marked “ imported briar “....JMHO......YMMV. I believe that the stamp "Imported Briar" means that the pipe was manufactured just after WWII when briar had just become available again.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 7:03:16 GMT -5
I have many briars that are stamped Italy, Algerian or Greek briar. It’s those stamped “imported briar “ are the ones I most often concerned about..
Yes I do find that many tobacco’s smoke much differently depending on the region of the briar. Only thing I’ll add is.....I never had a bad smoke in any of my Algerian or Greek briar Pipes. Italian can be hit or miss for me.....same with those marked “ imported briar “....JMHO......YMMV. I believe that the stamp "Imported Briar" means that the pipe was manufactured just after WWII when briar had just become available again. Thanks Ron, makes sense.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on May 11, 2019 11:17:58 GMT -5
I have many briars that are stamped Italy, Algerian or Greek briar. It’s those stamped “imported briar “ are the ones I most often concerned about..
Yes I do find that many tobacco’s smoke much differently depending on the region of the briar. Only thing I’ll add is.....I never had a bad smoke in any of my Algerian or Greek briar Pipes. Italian can be hit or miss for me.....same with those marked “ imported briar “....JMHO......YMMV. I believe that the stamp "Imported Briar" means that the pipe was manufactured just after WWII when briar had just become available again. Kaywoodie began stamping their pipes "Imported Briar" in 1937. Before that they used more specific stampings for Algerian and Grecian. That was common among the various British makers at that time. BBB began to make some of their own pipes in the late 1880's while continuing to import French turned bowls, Charatan did the same, etc. French carvers were considered the superior craftsmen. Dunhill also bought stummels from BBB and possibly Charatan, before going into the production of their pipes in-house, and they never made all of their own pipes. Another Dunhill myth. To give those who might be interested a little insight into the state of affairs in the British pipe making industry, consider this. In 1928, Barling sought to amend the Merchandise Marks Act. What Barling wanted to change was the requirement for stamping the COM, or country of origin, stamp so that pipes stamped "Made In England" or "Made In London, England" had to actually be made in England or in London. Up to that point, you could have imported a pipe made on Mars and stamped it "Made In England". The reason Barling wanted this amendment is simple. After the 1906 St Claude carvers' strike, Barling made the decision to stop using French made bowls and to make everything in house. They were the only manufacturer to do this. Everyone else was still importing a portion of their stock from France. Barling noted that there was a certain cachet attached to an English made pipe, and wanted to cash in on it. So they applied to have the Act amended. There was an immediate uproar in the trade, and guess who lead the opposition to Barling's machinations? Dunhill. They said in court that such a change would be a "disaster" for the English pipe manufacturing industry. Comoy was more blunt about it. They said that the most skilled carvers were French and that British workers could not maintain the same level of quality. Barling lost the fight and thus pipes made in laLaLaLaBingBang can be stamped "Made In England".
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herman
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Post by herman on May 11, 2019 11:31:04 GMT -5
Boy its mind-boggling how all you people know all these things. I am impressed. Herman
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Post by oldcajun123 on May 11, 2019 12:43:50 GMT -5
My favorite pipes and briar have been the Amorelli , Sicilian briar. They have never disappointed me, the briar has been touted as some of the best.
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Post by sperrytops on May 11, 2019 13:29:18 GMT -5
Boy its mind-boggling how all you people know all these things. I am impressed. Herman Indeed.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2019 15:29:27 GMT -5
I believe that the stamp "Imported Briar" means that the pipe was manufactured just after WWII when briar had just become available again. Kaywoodie began stamping their pipes "Imported Briar" in 1937. Before that they used more specific stampings for Algerian and Grecian. That was common among the various British makers at that time. BBB began to make some of their own pipes in the late 1880's while continuing to import French turned bowls, Charatan did the same, etc. French carvers were considered the superior craftsmen. Dunhill also bought stummels from BBB and possibly Charatan, before going into the production of their pipes in-house, and they never made all of their own pipes. Another Dunhill myth. To give those who might be interested a little insight into the state of affairs in the British pipe making industry, consider this. In 1928, Barling sought to amend the Merchandise Marks Act. What Barling wanted to change was the requirement for stamping the COM, or country of origin, stamp so that pipes stamped "Made In England" or "Made In London, England" had to actually be made in England or in London. Up to that point, you could have imported a pipe made on Mars and stamped it "Made In England". The reason Barling wanted this amendment is simple. After the 1906 St Claude carvers' strike, Barling made the decision to stop using French made bowls and to make everything in house. They were the only manufacturer to do this. Everyone else was still importing a portion of their stock from France. Barling noted that there was a certain cachet attached to an English made pipe, and wanted to cash in on it. So they applied to have the Act amended. There was an immediate uproar in the trade, and guess who lead the opposition to Barling's machinations? Dunhill. They said in court that such a change would be a "disaster" for the English pipe manufacturing industry. Comoy was more blunt about it. They said that the most skilled carvers were French and that British workers could not maintain the same level of quality. Barling lost the fight and thus pipes made in laLaLaLaBingBang can be stamped "Made In England". Hmm, well I read it somewhere and like a lot of things there are no set rules to go by obviously. Appreciate the clarification though.
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Post by Dramatwist on May 11, 2019 15:35:24 GMT -5
Boy its mind-boggling how all you people know all these things. I am impressed. Herman ...if you spend enough time with this stuff, it gets absorbed... it's simply experience...
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Mac
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Post by Mac on May 11, 2019 17:01:06 GMT -5
Boy its mind-boggling how all you people know all these things. I am impressed. Herman ...if you spend enough time with this stuff, it gets absorbed... it's simply experience... Just to clarify one thing: It's not " all of us people knowing all of these things"! You heard from the Bard of Barling.... But certainly as a group there is a lot of knowledge, and it's impressive.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on May 11, 2019 17:32:44 GMT -5
...I think it has more to do with the way the briar is processed and worked... just my 2 cents... Todd Barnard aka Sasquatch, a frequent poster on the pipemakers forum, says that he can more readily identify the processor/distributor that a block came from than the country of origin. The work put into the briar makes it somewhat homogeneous.
Most of the processors work with raw briar from more than one country, anyway.
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Post by Dramatwist on May 11, 2019 18:01:08 GMT -5
...if you spend enough time with this stuff, it gets absorbed... it's simply experience... Just to clarify one thing: It's not " all of us people knowing all of these things"! You heard from the Bard of Barling.... But certainly as a group there is a lot of knowledge, and it's impressive. ...agreed... it's "society" knowledge...
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on May 11, 2019 21:09:06 GMT -5
Our little segment of Society loves to use anecdotal information. Sometimes it's accurate, and often it isn't. As much as possible I try to find source materials in the form of company literature, catalogs trade publications, etc, to document the information I supply, whether in an article, like the Barling Pipedia page, or posts on fora. For example, how do I know that BBB started turning, finishing, and mounting their own bowls in he late 1880's, 1888 if I remember correctly? I read BBB's announcement regarding setting up operations in a trade publication from 1888. And I get a lot of newspaper and trade materials from other pipe history buffs. The point of all of this is to give pipe enthusiasts access to verifiable information, rather than speculation, so that they can make more informed decisions regarding what they collect. And it helps with spotting rather "iffy" collectible pipes.
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