elric
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Post by elric on Jul 3, 2019 20:20:05 GMT -5
Just received three Chinese made Road Town pipes. A Poker, a Fat Shank Pot & a bent Billiard Sitter.
The bowls have a black coating. [Why? 'Carbon' coating indicates cheap to my mind]
Was discussing on the 'What's in the mail' thread about the Chinese nasty habit of using toxic chems like formaldehyde in the manufacture of textiles, building products & even food.
Breaking in the Poker first [my first briar Poker] it actually draws well. An odd taste developed & then my mouth & tongue started to become irritated. The blend is not at all bitey [Holiday Match mixed 50/50 with 310 Modern English] 20 minutes after putting down the pipe, my tongue is still tingling.
I'd like to know what constitutes the black lining. Lead? Mercury? Formaldehyde even?
Not worth the risk. I'm thinking it would be wise to remove the coatings with sandpaper.
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Post by scrooge on Jul 3, 2019 20:26:53 GMT -5
SMART!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 21:08:10 GMT -5
elric..........some pipe makers use “ Black as Night “ lightly stained in the chamber. On the pipes I made a while back I used a very dark pipe mud, filled the chamber and let harden for a couple of days. The chamber stayed dark and broke in easily. Some of my new pipes I break in with a light coat of honey in the chamber, works well👍👍👌
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Post by trailboss on Jul 3, 2019 21:39:13 GMT -5
This tells me all I need to know about anything Chinese made in reference to pipes...yeah it is about cobs, but there have been too many instances about bad toothpaste, and dog food from China that is not fit for man nor beast. The wife bought me a jar of chopped Garlic, and a jar of peppers from the dollar store, both tasted chemically laden...yeah, from China.
Nothing like smoking caulk at the bottom of the bowl.
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elric
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Post by elric on Jul 3, 2019 21:48:21 GMT -5
elric ..........some pipe makers use “ Black as Night “ lightly stained in the chamber. On the pipes I made a while back I used a very dark pipe mud, filled the chamber and let harden for a couple of days. The chamber stayed dark and broke in easily. Some of my new pipes I break in with a light coat of honey in the chamber, works well👍👍👌 From what I've read, the purpose of the black lining is to encourage cake to protect the briar. Is that correct? I'd imagine that Black as Night would be a safe product. The Chinese however, I simply do not trust. We have a big problem here with Chinese clearing shelves of Aussie made baby formula & sending it to China for huge profit for e.g. The Chinese themselves don't trust Chinese baby food makers since 300,000 babies were poisoned by melamine laced baby formula over 10 years ago. I've heard the honey trick before. It's an excellent idea. [For one thing, honey does not go off] Apart from one pipe that has too thin a chamber wall though, I try to keep my pipes free from cake. It's one of the reasons why I prefer pipes with a thick chamber wall. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2019 22:01:40 GMT -5
elric.......From what I've read, the purpose of the black lining is to encourage cake to protect the briar. Is that correct? I'd imagine that Black as Night would be a safe product. Yup, it’s a safe product that’s used by many pipe makers. Yes it helps cake form evenly and a bit faster. I’ll stick with honey or my cigar ash pipe mud.👍 I do remember reading an article or two pertaining to the Chinese baby formulas. Also the Chinese dog treats that were sold in the Country about two years ago that killed roughly 2,000 of dogs in the USA. One well known brand, even had TV commercials was “ Milo “ . Now Milo is made here in the States and still don’t trust the company!!!
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elric
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Post by elric on Jul 3, 2019 22:10:38 GMT -5
This tells me all I need to know about anything Chinese made in reference to pipes...yeah it is about cobs, but there have been too many instances about bad toothpaste, and dog food from China that is not fit for man nor beast. The wife bought me a jar of chopped Garlic, and a jar of peppers from the dollar store, both tasted chemically laden...yeah, from China. Nothing like smoking caulk at the bottom of the bowl.  That's what I think of Chinese products. Aren't MM cobs really cheap in the U.S.? Why would anyone go past an MM cob? I've got 3 & intend to buy three more. Wouldn't buy any other than a Missouri Meerschaum. [Haven't tried other U.S. cobs like Aristocob. Just sticking to what I know & like] Not only does the jarred Chinese chopped garlic taste nasty, the taste stays in ones mouth for a long time. One local pizza shop lost me for good when he used Chinese garlic on my pizza. I could still taste it the next day even after brushing my teeth twice. For some odd reason, even fresh Chinese garlic is nasty. It's so bad that there was a report on a local current affair show after the fruit & veg market had been flooded with cheap Chinese garlic. Many shops had to throw it out because no-one bought the stuff twice. For my entire life, I've always bought Aussie grown food. I'm not 100% sure but I think that most imported fresh food is either irradiated or sprayed before cleared by Quarantine. |
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elric
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Post by elric on Jul 3, 2019 22:41:23 GMT -5
elric .......From what I've read, the purpose of the black lining is to encourage cake to protect the briar. Is that correct? I'd imagine that Black as Night would be a safe product. Yup, it’s a safe product that’s used by many pipe makers. Yes it helps cake form evenly and a bit faster. I’ll stick with honey or my cigar ash pipe mud.👍 I do remember reading an article or two pertaining to the Chinese baby formulas. Also the Chinese dog treats that were sold in the Country about two years ago that killed roughly 2,000 of dogs in the USA. One well known brand, even had TV commercials was “ Milo “ . Now Milo is made here in the States and still don’t trust the company!!! Cigar ash was exactly what I needed when 'breaking in' my MM cobs. Had to make do with ash from a couple of blends that worked [Ash from SPC Plum Pudding & Mississippi River was the best] Six babies died, 54,000 hospitalised, thousands needed dialysis, many needed kidney transplant. Melamine was added because it gives the appearance of a higher protein content when added to milk. In-other-words, they poisoned hundreds of thousands of babies because they were flogging an inferior product. I'll never understand that rationale. Killed around 2,000 dogs? How sad. Phenobarbital is often found in U.S. made pet food would you believe. Only one way for that to find itself in pet food. [Think about it] My dogs are only fed a 100% raw diet. Their turds turn white in a few days, they have healthy gums, pearly white teeth, neutral breath & best of all, a raw diet extends a dog or cats life.
My 50kg Rotti lived to 14yo, a brilliant age for a dog that size.
The other consequence of a raw meaty [soft] bone diet is that dogs/cats are more satisfied & become less food focused.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jul 3, 2019 23:04:46 GMT -5
Most makers use a mix of USDA pharma grade charcoal and a binder, like syrup or even sour cream. Some use the charcoal and what is called "water glass" (sodium silicate). It's mixed into a paste and painted in the chamber. None if it is harmful but depending on what liquid binder they use, it can give an off taste at first. I don't use a bowl coating on my pipes.
That said, I have no idea what the Chinese are using...
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chasingembers
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Post by chasingembers on Jul 4, 2019 2:06:45 GMT -5
A few artisans I've had the fortune of dealing with over the past few decades like the chamber coating because they feel it gives a finished look to their work.
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Post by Legend Lover on Jul 4, 2019 4:51:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the Chinese, but my Morgan bones came with a coated bowl. I've no idea what it is though.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jul 4, 2019 13:19:33 GMT -5
A few artisans I've had the fortune of dealing with over the past few decades like the chamber coating because they feel it gives a finished look to their work. It does, especially for pictures. Just about every high-end pipe on SP has bowl coat. It also makes it easy to hide flaws in the chamber... ;-) |
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Post by roadsdiverged on Jul 4, 2019 13:26:24 GMT -5
It also makes it easy to hide flaws in the chamber... ;-) That was my thought. I will always prefer no coating. |
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Post by trailboss on Jul 4, 2019 14:18:36 GMT -5
It also makes it easy to hide flaws in the chamber... ;-) That was my thought. I will always prefer no coating. I never thought about it that way... sure makes sense. |
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jul 4, 2019 15:14:15 GMT -5
That was my thought. I will always prefer no coating. I never thought about it that way... sure makes sense. yup. I could've bowl coated the pipe I just sold for a discount - because I got some dye splatter in the chamber. But, since I don't bowl coat, it keeps me honest. (And somewhat dumb, I guess. Haha.) I may bowl coat in the future, just for aesthetics. We'll see, though. |
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Jul 4, 2019 17:37:06 GMT -5
I'd first try very hot water and a toothbrush to see if the dubious coating might come off. If not, sand paper the rest.
I have 0 problems with a trusted bowl coating.
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elric
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Post by elric on Jul 4, 2019 19:16:45 GMT -5
I'd first try very hot water and a toothbrush to see if the dubious coating might come off. If not, sand paper the rest. I have 0 problems with a trusted bowl coating. Trusted being the operative word. Me no trust Chinese. |
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jul 4, 2019 19:22:26 GMT -5
I'd first try very hot water and a toothbrush to see if the dubious coating might come off. If not, sand paper the rest. I have 0 problems with a trusted bowl coating. Bowl coating isn't bad. And, it is visually appealing. It may help cake development, too, maybe. |
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Post by danno44 on Jul 4, 2019 20:20:08 GMT -5
Don’t mess with removing the coating. I’d be just as concerned what the pipe itself and stem are made from. Take all 3 pipes and throw in trash. Buy a few MM cobs. For Briar, several brands are inexpensive and reputable, Rossi, Dr G just to name 2.
My .02
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elric
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Post by elric on Jul 4, 2019 20:55:21 GMT -5
Don’t mess with removing the coating. I’d be just as concerned what the pipe itself and stem are made from. Take all 3 pipes and throw in trash. Buy a few MM cobs. For Briar, several brands are inexpensive and reputable, Rossi, Dr G just to name 2. My .02 A bit drastic don't you think? I've persevered with the Poker & I didn't awake with palsy, a mini-stroke, speech deficit nor any other nasty affliction so I should survive. The Poker is actually not a bad smoker & I see no reason why the other pipes would not be also. I've got 3 MM cobs & intend to buy 3 more. And I've got around 30 pipes in my rotation with about 60 unsmoked briars sitting in boxes. I don't need more pipes but PAD is an affliction that is hard to resist. Whenever I see a good pipe on ebay that's going for a bargain I can't help myself. There's a Chinese Road Town bent Poker that I'm keen to buy .... just not from the dodgy scammer who ripped me off. |
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joeman
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Post by joeman on Jul 5, 2019 16:05:08 GMT -5
For anyone who's bought a Chinese made pipe...yikes...every single one I've laid hands or eyes on has been...well...not even worth the few dollars someone paid for it. I'd not trust their 'bowl coating'.
I've made pipes, and I've refurbished many...and I do use coatings (unless the person I'm doing work for asks for no coating). True, a bowl coating could be hiding a flaw...but lots of artisans and quality pipe companies use them. I for one can taste the wood during the first few smokes, and don't like it. The bowl coating I employ was developed by a pipe makers guild, and the several ingredients are ALL food grade...you could literally eat the bowl coating. This coating does help the initial layer of cake to begin, and it gives zero taste to the smoke.
Just say no to Chinese pipes.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Jul 5, 2019 16:53:16 GMT -5
For anyone who's bought a Chinese made pipe...yikes...every single one I've laid hands or eyes on has been...well...not even worth the few dollars someone paid for it. I'd not trust their 'bowl coating'. I've made pipes, and I've refurbished many...and I do use coatings (unless the person I'm doing work for asks for no coating). True, a bowl coating could be hiding a flaw...but lots of artisans and quality pipe companies use them. I for one can taste the wood during the first few smokes, and don't like it. The bowl coating I employ was developed by a pipe makers guild, and the several ingredients are ALL food grade...you could literally eat the bowl coating. This coating does help the initial layer of cake to begin, and it gives zero taste to the smoke. Just say no to Chinese pipes. wasn't there hubbub awhile ago about them selling knock-offs of artisan pipes? |
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Jul 6, 2019 21:29:55 GMT -5
For anyone who's bought a Chinese made pipe...yikes...every single one I've laid hands or eyes on has been...well...not even worth the few dollars someone paid for it. I'd not trust their 'bowl coating'. I've made pipes, and I've refurbished many...and I do use coatings (unless the person I'm doing work for asks for no coating). True, a bowl coating could be hiding a flaw...but lots of artisans and quality pipe companies use them. I for one can taste the wood during the first few smokes, and don't like it. The bowl coating I employ was developed by a pipe makers guild, and the several ingredients are ALL food grade...you could literally eat the bowl coating. This coating does help the initial layer of cake to begin, and it gives zero taste to the smoke. Just say no to Chinese pipes. wasn't there hubbub awhile ago about them selling knock-offs of artisan pipes? The eBay seller who handles overseas sales for "HS Studio" and "Road Town" used to sell counterfeit Danish/Italian pipes.
Selling pipes under actual Chinese brands seems like a much better move. They're all real briar pipes, some have hand cut stems, and many of these pipes seem to have very happy purchasers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 21:32:28 GMT -5
You ^^^^^^^^^ like I’d buy a $7,000.00 Pipe without holding it in my hand.......if I were wealthy!! I’m sure you remember that pipe was posted on the site for over a year.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Jul 6, 2019 21:33:57 GMT -5
Breaking in the Poker first [my first briar Poker] it actually draws well. An odd taste developed & then my mouth & tongue started to become irritated. The blend is not at all bitey [Holiday Match mixed 50/50 with 310 Modern English] 20 minutes after putting down the pipe, my tongue is still tingling. I'd like to know what constitutes the black lining. Lead? Mercury? Formaldehyde even? Not worth the risk. I'm thinking it would be wise to remove the coatings with sandpaper. Communist China is a lawless regime. You cannot count on a commercial supplier doing anything but cutting corners.
With that said, the cheapest ways to make a bowl lining in China are the same as the best ways to make a bowl lining: stains for color, water glass as a fixative, carbon black as a lining.
If it tastes awful, that could have come out of any pipe with a lining, from any country.
I've had some awful, awful times smoking pipes with a dip stain, from England and Ireland. It wasn't because they were trying to poison me, it was just dip stain or sloppy work with a brush.
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Melamine (formaldehyde resin) turns up in Chinese dog food and baby formula because suppliers are trying to cheat their downstream vendors, and it can fool protein tests.
Melamine (formaldehyde resin) turns up in Chinese textiles because customers ask for it. ("Permanent Press")
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elric
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Post by elric on Jul 6, 2019 22:11:00 GMT -5
Breaking in the Poker first [my first briar Poker] it actually draws well. An odd taste developed & then my mouth & tongue started to become irritated. The blend is not at all bitey [Holiday Match mixed 50/50 with 310 Modern English] 20 minutes after putting down the pipe, my tongue is still tingling. I'd like to know what constitutes the black lining. Lead? Mercury? Formaldehyde even? Not worth the risk. I'm thinking it would be wise to remove the coatings with sandpaper. Communist China is a lawless regime. You cannot count on a commercial supplier doing anything but cutting corners.
With that said, the cheapest ways to make a bowl lining in China are the same as the best ways to make a bowl lining: stains for color, water glass as a fixative, carbon black as a lining.
If it tastes awful, that could have come out of any pipe with a lining, from any country.
I've had some awful, awful times smoking pipes with a dip stain, from England and Ireland. It wasn't because they were trying to poison me, it was just dip stain or sloppy work with a brush.
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Melamine (formaldehyde resin) turns up in Chinese dog food and baby formula because suppliers are trying to cheat their downstream vendors, and it can fool protein tests.
Melamine (formaldehyde resin) turns up in Chinese textiles because customers ask for it. ("Permanent Press")
You could be right that the 'carbon' lining is non-toxic. Considering their nasty habit of putting profit before any other consideration & so blatantly, it's just as possible that it's lined with something nasty either intentionally or through contamination.
[Seriously, who would even think for one moment that they'd get away with poisoning baby formula? Look at how it's affected the Chinese baby formula market. Ten years later Chinese mothers still wont buy Chinese formula]
That's my point, I will not put my health at risk by giving the makers the benefit-of-a-doubt.
"Cutting corners" is one thing, poisoning over 300,000 babies/toddlers is another thing entirely [The very definition of evil IMO]
The Poker is a good smoker so I'm persevering with it. Although I'm on bowl #3, I'm still getting an odd heating and tingling in my mouth.
I've broken in a few pipes with the dreaded carbon lining [me no like] and have not once experienced this odd sensation. I'll be sanding whatever it is from my other Chinese pipes.
Melamine is formaldehyde? Didn't know that.
Formaldehyde is such a dangerous toxin, that I hope that whoever put that into food intended for babies & toddlers was put before a firing squad.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2019 22:18:46 GMT -5
elric........get a proper fitting wood dowel and wrap 220 grit sandpaper around dowel and bottom. Sand all the chambers on the Chinese pipes if it’s effecting you. So far I’ve had no issues. Good luck👌👍👍
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captblack
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Post by captblack on Jul 8, 2019 11:25:15 GMT -5
I have been eyeballing the Chinese made pipes on eBay, but some things aren't adding up for me. The price of the pipe itself is less than the cost of a decent grade briar wood blank on the open market. Its not like China factories have a secret source for super cheap briar wood blanks that other countries and artisans don't have access to.
So, by selling a finished briar pipe at less than the cost of raw briar, one of three things is happening:
- The PRC Government is subsidizing pipe factories (possible, happens in other industries)
- The manufacturer is selling below margin to get market exposure (possible but unlikely)
- The pipe itself is made of something other than briar wood (possible)
- The pipe is made of inferior quality briar that is cheaper (possible but the pictures show a nice grain)
I may pick one up just to give it a try and write up a review. That will help clear things up - at least for me.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 11:38:06 GMT -5
I have been eyeballing the Chinese made pipes on eBay, but some things aren't adding up for me. The price of the pipe itself is less than the cost of a decent grade briar wood blank on the open market. Its not like China factories have a secret source for super cheap briar wood blanks that other countries and artisans don't have access to. So, by selling a finished briar pipe at less than the cost of raw briar, one of three things is happening: - The PRC Government is subsidizing pipe factories (possible, happens in other industries) - The manufacturer is selling below margin to get market exposure (possible but unlikely) - The pipe itself is made of something other than briar wood (possible) - The pipe is made of inferior quality briar that is cheaper (possible but the pictures show a nice grain) I may pick one up just to give it a try and write up a review. That will help clear things up - at least for me. There are cheap none briar pipes on the Chinese. If you see a Chinese Meerschaum just stay clear, they are made with Meer powder and resin and pressed. Only God knows what kind of fiberglass your smoking. I purchased a number of Chinese briars and only had issues with one, needed the draft opened a bit more. Made from briar, pear wood and cherry I’ve found. If you have any questions feel free to ask!!! You can also PM me👍 |
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Jul 8, 2019 13:34:32 GMT -5
There's a few artisan chinese pipe makers out there I would definitely trust.
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That's what I think of Chinese products. 
