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Post by dominique on Oct 3, 2019 12:53:29 GMT -5
Hello everybody. I keep reading about those great defunct blends of yore and the efforts going into resurecting them. Bengal slices, 965, sobranje, etc., forever lost to me. My question is have you ever experienced a re-creation of those blends which was so close as to be virtually undistinguishable from the original? It seems that the variations in equipment, tobacco sourcing, quirks of the blender and more, doom any kind of close reproduction. I am already amazed that the characteristics of a blend can be maitained throughout its production. So could you let me know if some reasonable substitutes exist or should I say R.I.P. and move on?
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Post by sperrytops on Oct 3, 2019 13:13:21 GMT -5
It appears you are new member to the Forum. Welcome to the Patch from Northern California. A great place for discussions like you pose above. I have not smoked all the tobaccos available, not by a long shot. And my greater range of experience comes from the last ten years. So a lot of those blends like 965 which have disappeared and are spoken of with such reverence are unknown to me. But there are many smokers here who have smoked the golden oldies and will be able to offer some input.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 13:32:49 GMT -5
There are dozens of recreations and some swear they are matches while others who have not had the blends in twenty years say they are not correct. Go figure.
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Spartacus
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Post by Spartacus on Oct 3, 2019 15:09:11 GMT -5
Tobacco flavors and strength change with time. Like wine, you can't compare the same bottle of wine bottled in 1989 to one bottled in 2019. There are differences in crops from year to year. There are to many factors affecting it.
If you enjoy what you smoke life is good. I just tried to compare the Peterson Nightcap to Dunhill Nightcap. It can't be done. All the Dunhill has age on it and the Peterson doesn't. They taste different for that reason. If you don't have or can't get Dunhill Nighcap the Peterson version was really good. Smoke the Peterson and enjoy!
When I started out I chased the old stuff; Balkan Sobranie, Syrian Latakia, McClelland Frogs and other McClelland's, Gallagher Condor, the list goes on. I thought it was the end all to be all. It's what all new tobaccos should be measured against. I didn't want to miss out on what others had. I wasted a lot of money and time cellaring old out of production tobaccos. There are some great blends in that list that I love but there are new blends that cost a lot less and are just as good. I don't worry unicorn tobaccos anymore. Now I find what I really like and cellar the heck out of it.
For those that were able to cellar all the old blends when they were available, that is great. Sitting on the porch on a cool evening smoking a bowl of Frog Morton Cellar is about as nice as sitting on the porch on a cool evening smoking a bowl of Director Cut or FVF.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2019 15:35:41 GMT -5
Just read a TR review of McConnell Marleybone, their version of 965. One reviewer found it a bit different, being more Oriental forward, but just as enjoyable.
To add credence to his opinion, he mentioned that he has -400- Pounds of 965 cellared.
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Post by dominique on Oct 3, 2019 22:15:25 GMT -5
Thank you for your welcome. I think Spartacus is to the point recommending to find blends to your licking, we certainly are not lacking choices, and cellaring some, if only as a memento to our changing, evolving tastes. But my question was also about how close can you get to the original taste of a blend, my feeling is: not very much. 400 Lb of 965? A Dunhill survivalist.
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Post by Legend Lover on Oct 4, 2019 9:27:07 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum, brother. Pop over to the welcome section and tell us a little bit about yourself. I think that you are right in thinking that blenders don't get terribly close to the original blend, but I also agree with Spartacus in that different crops, different growing conditions etc. can affect blends. I wonder if even the same blend made by the same manufacturer (without being bought over in between) 20 years apart might not taste the same either. Also, if you're comparing the blend from 20 years ago then that blend has aged somewhat. Other than that you are going with memory of what you THINK it tasted like, and feelings and memories like that are extremely subjective. |
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Post by trailboss on Oct 4, 2019 9:33:40 GMT -5
Over the years I have heard in a couple instances of Russ Oulette being able to closely nail a few blends in re-creating, namely Warhorse... and I believe that one of his “Knight” blends (black or white?), is really close to the old Balkan Sobranie.
Of course, some will always take the contrarian view...
Spartacus post is spot on in many regards.
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Post by Cramptholomew on Oct 4, 2019 10:47:16 GMT -5
I'd like someone to recreate Gawith and Hoggarth Black Irish XXX Twist, only better, stronger, faster.
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Post by Legend Lover on Oct 4, 2019 11:09:03 GMT -5
I'd like someone to recreate Gawith and Hoggarth Black Irish XXX Twist, only better, stronger, faster. That's the tobacco version of daft punk. |
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Post by pepesdad1 on Oct 4, 2019 11:32:41 GMT -5
Welcome to the Patch, dominique! Hope you enjoy your stay here.
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Post by isett2860 on Oct 4, 2019 12:04:25 GMT -5
Welcome.
As Trailboss and others have said.
Spartacus post is spot on in many regards.
In my 4 years, I was doing the “chase the icons” but have now learned to embrace the ones
that are available now and enjoy them.
Still doesn’t answer your main question I know.
But many of them we will never know what the original was like, so enjoy the match if you like it.
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Post by monbla256 on Oct 4, 2019 16:09:07 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum, brother. Pop over to the welcome section and tell us a little bit about yourself. I think that you are right in thinking that blenders don't get terribly close to the original blend, but I also agree with Spartacus in that different crops, different growing conditions etc. can affect blends. I wonder if even the same blend made by the same manufacturer (without being bought over in between) 20 years apart might not taste the same either. Also, if you're comparing the blend from 20 years ago then that blend has aged somewhat. Other than that you are going with memory of what you THINK it tasted like, and feelings and memories like that are extremely subjective.  |
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Post by LSUTigersFan on Oct 4, 2019 20:16:09 GMT -5
I got bit by the "I must have this tin and that tin..." bug, but there are so many great tobaccos out there, find what you like first and then chase something special. While I am sure there are some magical blends out there that I've missed, I enjoy what I can easily get right now.
My two cents.
And, GEAUX TIGERS!!
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Oct 4, 2019 22:35:06 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum, brother. Pop over to the welcome section and tell us a little bit about yourself. I think that you are right in thinking that blenders don't get terribly close to the original blend, but I also agree with Spartacus in that different crops, different growing conditions etc. can affect blends. I wonder if even the same blend made by the same manufacturer (without being bought over in between) 20 years apart might not taste the same either. Also, if you're comparing the blend from 20 years ago then that blend has aged somewhat. Other than that you are going with memory of what you THINK it tasted like, and feelings and memories like that are extremely subjective. I guarantee they wouldn't be, or taste, the same! But I also know that I probably couldn't tell the difference, which, if blended carefully and right, would be tiny. And, welcome, dominique.....Français ou Française? |
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Post by trailboss on Oct 5, 2019 1:26:04 GMT -5
I do not know how much tobacco can take a turn from year to year with environmental fluctuations, but knowing a bit about vegetables and fruits, I am surprised that for the most part the blenders are able to remain as consistent as they are, year by year.
Recreating a blend that has been long out of production and trying to factor in what has taken place during the aging process from samples seems to be a task that my compromised palate cannot comprehend...glad there are people out there trying though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2019 8:04:48 GMT -5
Blends do change. Capstan Blue from late 70s has a Lakeland scent. Astley's #44 has more perique than it use to. Dunhill recipes are pretty well documented since the contract has moved from manufacturer to manufacturer. The issue is sourcing. This would be compounded with trying to recreate blend from single manufacturer like McClelland since the recipes were never sold and sourcing would be even harder
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Chuckus
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Post by Chuckus on Oct 5, 2019 8:17:20 GMT -5
I'd like someone to recreate Gawith and Hoggarth Black Irish XXX Twist, only better, stronger, faster. The six million dollar twist? |
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Post by dominique on Oct 5, 2019 12:58:27 GMT -5
You are right Mac I am French born and raised, but that was 50 years ago so who knows.
So: save time and money and find a blend or blends you really like and enjoy until they go off the rail unless you want a hobby within a hobby and go hunting for lost cellars and crypts.
Off subject: Monbla256 I read about your favorite pipes being Edward's, unfamiliar with them so I read up and found they were made of Algerian briar, checked eBay and found 3 older ones cheapish, I am looking forward to that. But you know eBay, it's
like a flea market with everything locked in display cases 6 feet away.
My pleasure to join, thank you for the advice.
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