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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 13, 2021 10:30:16 GMT -5
I recently purchased a Former (Hans Nielsen) billiard 1-0-9.15 pipe on eBay ($90). Due to the heat of the moment on my part, I broke my own rule about checking for authenticity. As it turns out, thanks largely to www.pipephil.eu, it’s a fake! The stamping and markings are wrong! In fact, the pipe in question has a completely different marking inconsistent with an authentic Former or Bentley. My evidence: the pipe in question shows “Bentley” written on one side of the shank, “Switzerland” on the opposite side and lastly “1-0-9.15” marking on the shank. According to pipephil an authentic Former has, “Pipe probably carved during the Swiss period for Georg Huber's tobacco shop in Munich (GE). See (enlarged view) "G over H" stamping near Former's signature.” www.pipephil.eu/logos/en/logo-f3.html#formerpipesI asked the seller about it, including giving him a WAY OUT to SAVE FACE and citing my source to back up my claim. All I received in return is hostility, telling me that I’m playing games while providing no evidence of his own to support its authenticity. Had the seller responded in a gentlemanly manner, I would have accepted the pipe because I GAVE HIM A WAY OUT, chalked it up as a valuable lesson of “Buyer Beware” and concluded the matter. Instead, judging solely on his actions, leads me to conclude he’s been caught with “his fingers in the cookie jar.” Long story short: the seller’s offered a refund once the item is returned including paying for return shipping charges. As it’s coming from Serbia, it’ll be some time before it reaches me. My Lesson: - due your due diligence, - if the price is too good to be true best to avoid, and - before you buy or make an offer best to get a second opinion. Lastly, if you own a Former’s pipe I’d appreciate hearing from you. If anyone else wants to weigh in or thinks they know what this illusive pipe is I’d appreciate your thoughts too. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 13, 2021 10:37:27 GMT -5
A real Former is way out of my league. I have a couple of Norup pipes that are as close as I will ever get to a Chonoswitsch. The stuff that dreams are made of.
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 13, 2021 10:39:34 GMT -5
Again, I got caught up in the moment as the price was too good to be true. Appreciate your thoughts Ron.
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 13, 2021 10:47:33 GMT -5
It happens. PayPal is your friend. I have bought a couple of fakes, but they were much less ambitious fakes. Feel free to ask for opinions on any other investment grade pipes. Also, be sure to read everything you can find on Former before you send it back. There are a lot of conflicting articles about several of the Danish pipe makers. Many had their logo go through several generations and even carved for other shops. My only Danish vice is Preben Holm, who started very young putting his name on pipes he carved. He was VERY proud of his name. As far as beauty, quality and smokability, you can't go wrong with RDpipes.
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 13, 2021 10:52:28 GMT -5
"Some years ago, three Danish pipe makers of excellent repute put their heads together and decided to collaborate on a project that became a benchmark in Danish pipe production. The brand of Norup was established by Lars Christensen, Hans Jonny Nielsen (a.k.a. Former) and Jess Chonowitsch. They worked together designing and making pipes as far back as 1968. Unfortunately, the Norup company no longer exists. Courtesy, The Pipe Smoker"
Yet, despite the auspicious names attached, these pipes have limited popularity and low prices. Mine are exceptional smokers.
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Post by terrapinflyer on Feb 13, 2021 11:18:04 GMT -5
I don't play in that league, but you have my sympathy. I've been perusing the bay for a week or so, just looking for an inexpensive fixer-upper to play with, Kaywoodie, Grabow, Weber &c. ebay is a cesspit on that low end and obviously on the high end as well. I'm patient and I know something will come along. (Vintage Rare Unique Antique Smoking Pipe, followed by a fuzzy pic of something with a burnout and a broken bit or MM cob that was left out in rain for $90) Again, sympathy for your rotten experience.
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Post by Darin on Feb 13, 2021 11:31:40 GMT -5
That sucks! I've stayed away from Flea-Bay due to these kinds of stories. Hope he makes things right! terrapinflyer ... are you looking for a couple restoration projects? I've got a bin full that aren't moving very fast here.  |
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 13, 2021 11:38:44 GMT -5
No sympathy necessary Emily but thank you anyway. The crazy thing is, in my opinion, it’s a beautiful looking pipe BUT it’s not a Former. The $90 price is irrelevant.
As previously stated, had the seller approached this in a gentlemanly manner I would have given him the benefit of the doubt and accepted the pipe anyway. The fault is mine alone and I freely admit it. My surprise is in the manner the seller behaved. My assumption is if you are a reputable dealer and this is your business, you would do everything to safeguard your reputation. As Ron stated earlier, mistakes happen. However, when you reply with hostility and counter with “false” accusations without any substantiation, my only conclusion is “you’ve been caught.”
on the bright side, I’ll eventually get a refund once the pipe is returned.
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 13, 2021 12:32:29 GMT -5
There are tons of great deals on eBay right now, for people who take their time to do their homework. For people who just drop in and buy the first cheap thing that catches their eye, it's an educational experience. I've been on both sides.
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Post by pepesdad1 on Feb 13, 2021 12:42:48 GMT -5
"you can't go wrong with RDpipes." That is a fact!!! If it looks too good to be true...it probably isn't...good rule to live by!
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Post by terrapinflyer on Feb 13, 2021 13:27:56 GMT -5
That sucks! I've stayed away from Flea-Bay due to these kinds of stories. Hope he makes things right! terrapinflyer ... are you looking for a couple restoration projects? I've got a bin full that aren't moving very fast here. Ayuh, I am. Nothing fancy, just something to play with. |
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Post by Darin on Feb 13, 2021 13:30:22 GMT -5
Check yer phone! |
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Post by terrapinflyer on Feb 13, 2021 13:30:49 GMT -5
There are tons of great deals on eBay right now, for people who take their time to do their homework. For people who just drop in and buy the first cheap thing that catches their eye, it's an educational experience. I've been on both sides. Yes, I have heard that advice and I am taking it. I'm in no hurry. Thanks. |
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Post by terrapinflyer on Feb 13, 2021 13:34:11 GMT -5
@darin Will do!
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Post by daveinlax on Feb 13, 2021 16:47:51 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone would fake a $90 dollar pipe but can you post a link to the eBay Listing? I know the Bentley brand mostly from the Dan Pipe Catalogs.  |
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 13, 2021 17:16:56 GMT -5
I don't know why anyone would fake a $90 dollar pipe but can you post a link to the eBay Listing? I know the Bentley brand mostly from the Dan Pipe Catalogs. Sure, will forward via pm thanks. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 13, 2021 17:19:18 GMT -5
I would love to see the pipe too. A Danish pipe that nice that appeals to you for $90 is something. We might want to divert the return.
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 13, 2021 17:22:00 GMT -5
Ron, as I am a gentleman, will forward you link via pm.
Take a look, I’d appreciate your thoughts.
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 13, 2021 19:18:08 GMT -5
Big shout out to Daveinlax for pointing me in the right direction!
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BrunoT
Junior Member
Looking forward to the next bowl
Posts: 294 
First Name: Bruno
Favorite Pipe: Ser Jacopos, Canadians, Dunhill
Favorite Tobacco: My Own Blend Everest
Location:
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Post by BrunoT on Feb 13, 2021 21:35:11 GMT -5
I'm not very much into Danish stuff, and I haven't seen the listing, but you mention it's stamped Bentley: those are quite popular over here in collections, but AFAIK it's a production brand, supervised by Former at some point perhaps.
To play the devil's advocate, I can understand why the seller would think you're playing games if you'd compare that to an actual Former pipe, especially at that price.
If it's legit (and I doubt even a borderline dishonest seller would go through the trouble at such a price), and you like it, I'd say you got yourself a good deal. That's my anecdotal opinion though, I've no expert authenticity advice to offer.
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Post by qmechanics on Feb 14, 2021 0:25:11 GMT -5
I would take it up with Ebay. If they agree with you , Ebay will refund the money to you directly. It is then up to the seller to see if he or she wants the pipe returned at his or her expense. It happened to me during the month of Feburary in the year 2020 with a pipe that I bought from S.YANIK; A pipe that arrived a month or so after purchase with damage. After sending him pictures of the damage, Yanik agreed to refund the money, once I shipped the pipe back to him. After presenting my issues with this arrangement, Yanik offered a surrogate address in NYC. Ebay rules however do not give sellers those options. In cases involving damage and other issues (like fraud),the seller must pay for return shipping and return all funds. So I went to Ebay. Ebay agreed and refunded the money. S. Yanik, being who he is, banned me from his Ebay auctions (at least for now). Overall, Yanik makes real nice meerschaum pipes. I do not discourage folks from buying and trying one or any number of his pipes. Just be careful, Yanik can be a bit prickly if trouble starts. Maybe the rules have changed but damage and fraud are two things eBay cannot afford to go on without consequence. |
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 14, 2021 9:34:28 GMT -5
I'm not very much into Danish stuff, and I haven't seen the listing, but you mention it's stamped Bentley: those are quite popular over here in collections, but AFAIK it's a production brand, supervised by Former at some point perhaps. To play the devil's advocate, I can understand why the seller would think you're playing games if you'd compare that to an actual Former pipe, especially at that price. If it's legit (and I doubt even a borderline dishonest seller would go through the trouble at such a price), and you like it, I'd say you got yourself a good deal. That's my anecdotal opinion though, I've no expert authenticity advice to offer. Thanks Bruno, appreciate your thoughts. |
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 14, 2021 9:35:10 GMT -5
I would take it up with Ebay. If they agree with you , Ebay will refund the money to you directly. It is then up to the seller to see if he or she wants the pipe returned at his or her expense. It happened to me during the month of Feburary in the year 2020 with a pipe that I bought from S.YANIK; A pipe that arrived a month or so after purchase with damage. After sending him pictures of the damage, Yanik agreed to refund the money, once I shipped the pipe back to him. After presenting my issues with this arrangement, Yanik offered a surrogate address in NYC. Ebay rules however do not give sellers those options. In cases involving damage and other issues (like fraud),the seller must pay for return shipping and return all funds. So I went to Ebay. Ebay agreed and refunded the money. S. Yanik, being who he is, banned me from his Ebay auctions (at least for now). Overall, Yanik makes real nice meerschaum pipes. I do not discourage folks from buying and trying one or any number of his pipes. Just be careful, Yanik can be a bit prickly if trouble starts. Maybe the rules have changed but damage and fraud are two things eBay cannot afford to go on without consequence. Appreciate your thoughts and experience brother. |
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 14, 2021 11:42:46 GMT -5
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Post by trailboss on Feb 14, 2021 17:08:28 GMT -5
I would wait to see the pipe before deciding anything, $90.00 isn't a king's ransom, and it might actually be a great smoker. To get a pipe that carries the provenance of any of these makers, it is going to cost you some bucks if the pipe is in decent condition. Any collector of Hans Former Nielsen pipes (or anyone that knows of him) would likely be all over a pipe listing for $90.00. It could be that the seller unknowingly in his research, thought that he had a Bentley made by Hans. I was fortunate that I bought a couple beautiful estate pipes with the WO Larsen stamps only, (nothing that suggests the carver) on a whim, I contacted Tonni Nielsen and he said that he remembered making both pipes and agreed to supply the provenance...I got lucky, but even lacking that provenance, the pipes were well worth it.   |
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Post by taiguy66 on Feb 14, 2021 17:11:54 GMT -5
Wise words indeed Charlie.
Yes, it’ll be four weeks before the pipe arrives giving me plenty of time to decide.
Thanks to everyone who chimed in on this! Much appreciated gentlemen and lady!
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Post by urbino on Feb 14, 2021 18:16:04 GMT -5
I would wait to see the pipe before deciding anything, $90.00 isn't a king's ransom, and it might actually be a great smoker. To get a pipe that carries the provenance of any of these makers, it is going to cost you some bucks if the pipe is in decent condition. Any collector of Hans Former Nielsen pipes (or anyone that knows of him) would likely be all over a pipe listing for $90.00. It could be that the seller unknowingly in his research, thought that he had a Bentley made by Hans. I was fortunate that I bought a couple beautiful estate pipes with the WO Larsen stamps only, (nothing that suggests the carver) on a whim, I contacted Tonni Nielsen and he said that he remembered making both pipes and agreed to supply the provenance...I got lucky, but even lacking that provenance, the pipes were well worth it. Those are beauties, indeed. |
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Post by trailboss on Feb 14, 2021 19:26:02 GMT -5
Thanks!
WO Larsen was to the pipe community what Motown was to music.
Pretty much at the same place in time.
Both turned out hit makers that continue to deliver the goods.
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thewingedsloth
Junior Member
working on it
Posts: 243
First Name: maybelater
Favorite Pipe: Todays pipe......
Favorite Tobacco: Semois mixes.
Location:
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Post by thewingedsloth on Mar 30, 2021 12:28:44 GMT -5
Sorry to read about a fake pipe but glad for the information!
I buy my vintage pipes from restoration shops. Steve at rebornpipes.com (shamelss plug for a wonderful shop. Steve is a real craftsman and pipeman)
He goes into depth on each pipe and posts the entire restoration on his blog which I recommend everyone should read from time to time.
I get to see the pipe as it came to him, all the repairs are photographed, each pipe has a historical reference.
When I buy a pipe I am assured I am getting what I paid for.
There are many other restorers who offer great pipes at good prices as well.
If I was to buy on ebay it would take a lot of diligence and I doubt I would feel comfortable until it arrived.
Thanks for posting!
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Post by Plainsman on Mar 30, 2021 13:45:42 GMT -5
Went over to rebornpipes.com. The documentation of the work on the Canadian was outstanding. Amazing attention to detail and careful craftsmanship. Well worth a visit.
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