Zach
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Post by Zach on Dec 9, 2021 8:44:08 GMT -5
The casing vs. topping bit was mostly just to further aid Henry who's got questions about additives used in tobaccos. Me personally, I taste Mac Baren HH Pure Virginia as pretty doped up with casing. Lots of sweetener, vanilla, vinegar.
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henry
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Post by henry on Dec 21, 2021 19:41:53 GMT -5
To date my favorite reviewer description is one that compares English Blends to a steak dinner. If so what does that make my go to, non aromatic cavendish? Unflavored jello with saltines?  Low grade burley that's been cooked in sugar. Sorry, I had to go there!
If you're looking for a smoke that does really taste like the char on a steak, look no further than Black XX twist from Sam Gawith, or the Black Twist from Gawith Hoggarth. Black XX twist tastes uncannily like the char on burnt meat, coupled with the taste of what a candle wick smells like right when you blow out a candle and smell that wick smoke. No added flavoring, they take brown flue cured Virginia leaf and they stove it until it turns black and gets a charred taste to it.
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Black Twist & Black XX seem to be out of stock with most when I checked. Perique apparently has that quality (have never tried it straight) and has been classified by some as a unami taste. I would be interested in blends that offer some char without a lethal dose of nicotine. |
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Zach
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Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Dec 21, 2021 20:28:33 GMT -5
Yes, the Gawith tobaccos come in about two batches per year it seems for the US market, and little occasional restocks of a few blends sometimes strewn about the year. They can either sell out in minutes, or with the two main shipments, they still all sell out within a few weeks.
Perique is nothing like the twist tobaccos. You could order some long cut perique from C&D if you wanted to try it straight and for blending into your blends for more fruity/figgy/tangy ferment flavor if you add it to Virginias. Hard to describe just one flavor for perique as most of it is Acadian perique meaning that they blend a little bit of pure Louisiana perique with another type of easier made perique-style fermented leaf to homogenize the flavor profile and stretch out their stash. Pure single-barrel genuine perique from Louisiana St. Jame's Parish is much harder to come by. It's all often sold out before the season's through, sometimes it's sold out before the seeds even go into the ground!
All said, there is absolutely no char flavor to perique. The Gawith twists have that character to them because they are flue cured Virginias that are then put through a stoving process.
If you are looking for sort of a charred flavor you're looking for flue cured leaf that's potentially been stoved similar to Gawith twists. Essentially you're only looking for Gawith twists as that's all I can think of outside of latakia or dark fired kentucky that gets that profile to it. If you have not tried Dark Fired Kentucky or Tennessee leaf, seek that leaf out in blends.
I can suggest G.L. Pease Jack Knife Plug for a perfect introduction to a sweet and smoky/char dark fired Kentucky flavor. Look no further. It's a plug of sweet Virginia and dark fired Kentucky leaf.
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Zach
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Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Dec 21, 2021 20:50:32 GMT -5
Indian air cured leaf of a few different varieties do tend to also masquerade a bit across profile lines. You have Kasturi (An Indian air cured leaf, and strong!) can sometimes taste a bit smokey, a bit like perique, mostly like cigar leaf and some type of burley but it's very good at blending those types of flavors all in one leaf. It's very nicotine strong too. Other forms of Indian leaf that have been stoved or flue cured can also tend to get a bit of that char flavor but you're not going to find that in a blend on the market. (Other than Gawith blends like Gawith Hoggarth twist, and Dark Plug and Dark Flake)
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henry
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Post by henry on Dec 21, 2021 20:51:15 GMT -5
Yes, the Gawith tobaccos come in about two batches per year it seems for the US market, and little occasional restocks of a few blends sometimes strewn about the year. They can either sell out in minutes, or with the two main shipments, they still all sell out within a few weeks. Perique is nothing like the twist tobaccos. You could order some long cut perique from C&D if you wanted to try it straight and for blending into your blends for more fruity/figgy/tangy ferment flavor if you add it to Virginias. Hard to describe just one flavor for perique as most of it is Acadian perique meaning that they blend a little bit of pure Louisiana perique with another type of easier made perique-style fermented leaf to homogenize the flavor profile and stretch out their stash. Pure single-barrel genuine perique from Louisiana St. Jame's Parish is much harder to come by. It's all often sold out before the season's through, sometimes it's sold out before the seeds even go into the ground! All said, there is absolutely no char flavor to perique. The Gawith twists have that character to them because they are flue cured Virginias that are then put through a stoving process. If you are looking for sort of a charred flavor you're looking for flue cured leaf that's potentially been stoved similar to Gawith twists. Essentially you're only looking for Gawith twists as that's all I can think of outside of latakia or dark fired kentucky that gets that profile to it. If you have not tried Dark Fired Kentucky or Tennessee leaf, seek that leaf out in blends. I can suggest G.L. Pease Jack Knife Plug for a perfect introduction to a sweet and smoky/char dark fired Kentucky flavor. Look no further. It's a plug of sweet Virginia and dark fired Kentucky leaf. Jack Knife Plug intrigues. One reviewer: The taste is incredible. The umami never ends -- currants, mace, molasses, beef jus, the gruyere-covered croutons on your french onion soup, cloves and honey, tangy whiffs of smoke from a far-off diesel. It's everything I'm looking for. |
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Dec 21, 2021 20:53:35 GMT -5
Hey, that's good! I really was thinking "What's a good smokey, char-rich-esque profile.. and the savory/umami flavor" does fit Jack Knife Plug a bit. I think of Jack Knife Plug more along the lines of a savory sweet Virginia plug with Dark Fired Kentucky. The Dark fired leaf when sippes slowly makes it savory, buttery, smokey. You should try it.
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Post by CrustyCat on Dec 22, 2021 7:49:02 GMT -5
Yeah, my palette is lame. I just mostly taste tobacco and I either like what I’m getting or I don’t. But I do seem to like some things that have Perique in it.
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Dec 22, 2021 10:00:54 GMT -5
Kevin, in my personal experience it took the first year or two of pipesmoking and sampling a broad range of genres before I could tell the differences in what leaf added what flavor characteristics. Tastes and palate can change quite a bit over time and many blends I thought I liked quite a bit during my first few years I no longer smoke at all. We have a lot of choices on the pipe tobacco market today. If you ever want to sample the individual component leaf you can go to C&D blenders and order yourself just 1 oz of each and start getting a feel for how each tastes on it's own. www.smokingpipes.com/tobacco/by-maker/cornell-diehl/bulk/index.cfm?tag=143 |
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henry
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Post by henry on Dec 22, 2021 14:19:05 GMT -5
I returned to pipe use after decades of no smoking. My taste preferences now as compared to then are quiet different. Nothing about human experience of the world is static it seems.
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Post by sperrytops on Dec 22, 2021 14:45:54 GMT -5
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Post by sperrytops on Dec 22, 2021 14:55:40 GMT -5
The casing vs. topping bit was mostly just to further aid Henry who's got questions about additives used in tobaccos. Me personally, I taste Mac Baren HH Pure Virginia as pretty doped up with casing. Lots of sweetener, vanilla, vinegar. The HH line from MacBaren was designed for no toppings and minimal casings. If you taste sugar and vinegar, that's likely the natural flavor of pure Virginia which is high in sugar and also has a naturally vinegar flavor, a la McClellands. |
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Dec 22, 2021 15:15:08 GMT -5
Mac Baren use vinegar as a natural mold inhibitor, and it is cased.
"WE ENHANCE THE NATURAL AROMAS OF TOBACCO
The Mac Baren Master Blenders have worked hard to find the best way to enhance the natural aromas of every single tobacco, so it should come as no surprise that the recipes that allow us to do this are a secret that is only handed down to a handful of people within the company.
Finding the right combination of ingredients to bring out certain characteristics of a particular tobacco without radically changing its natural aromas is a genuine art-form, which very few people in the world know how to do.
The process, which is referred to as “casing”, is very simple. Simply fill a small tank with water, add certain ingredients and boil for about 4 hours. Once this is done, the liquid is added to the tobacco which is subsequently left to stand to ensure the ingredient to be included in the leaf.
The quality of the ingredients is fundamental for the successful outcome of the casing process. Here at Mac Baren, we only use the finest, all-natural ingredients. If you had the opportunity to visit our pantry, you would find excellent cocoa, licorice, Belgian chocolate, cane sugar, honey and much, much more in it."
"Different aromas are developed for every single blend. This takes an enormous amount of work that is full of secrets which we are the sole keepers of."
Get to know Per Jenssen for further info  |
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henry
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Post by henry on Dec 29, 2021 15:40:46 GMT -5
Zach I was exploring whole leaf tobacco online related to char flavor (Total Leaf Supply). If purchased is it just a matter of grinding or cutting for use?
Thanks.
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Zach
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If you can't send money, send tobacco.
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First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
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Post by Zach on Dec 29, 2021 15:55:27 GMT -5
Yes. I've purchased from Total Leaf Supply and they've got top notch leaf, can highly recommend. For more variety also check out leafonly.com
They offer a cheap starter shredder that can quickly make you some shag cut. I've also painstakingly sat and de-stemmed and cut my ribbon and shag with good sewing scissors.
Total Leaf Supply offer red mahogany and bright lemon leaf and organic as well and a mixture of those Virginias make a wow factor level of a Virginia smoke on their own. For more variety, you can attempt some blending with red, bright, some dark fired leaf, latakia.
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henry
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Post by henry on Dec 29, 2021 21:17:31 GMT -5
Think I'm going to give them a try. My research indicates you can get good results with herb scissors (multi blade) so I'll hold off on the shredder. I'm guessing I can store uncut leaf in an amber mason jar (they're very useful). As you're buying by the pound should be a serious reserve.
Thanks Zach
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Post by urbino on Dec 29, 2021 22:06:14 GMT -5
Sounds like a fun experiment. Keep us updated on how it goes.
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henry
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Post by henry on Dec 30, 2021 23:06:38 GMT -5
Have some Tennessee / Kentucky Dark Fire Cured LO Solid Leaf, Virginia Flue Cured (BK) & some latakia on order. What can you tell me about aging Zac? (Pre or post cut, etc)
Thanks again.
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Zach
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If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
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Post by Zach on Dec 31, 2021 4:13:17 GMT -5
It's better if you cut it up into more manageable pieces for jar storage, and dry the tobacco before jarring. You will get mold storing it fresh and wet as there are no mold inhibitors on the leaf. You can possibly get some powdery mold growths on the leaf, which you can wipe off with a wet cloth and spritz with some vinegar water, simple sugar casing as a natural inhibitor.
I've got the Virginia flue cured (BK grade) in jars at crispy dry, and I've got latakia by the quarter pound bags and organic orange Virginia flue cured (BFR) grade sat out dry in quarter pound bags the past year. It's ok for it to sit out like this for a time dry at ambient, low humidity but of course when you want to prep the leaf you will then need to properly rehydrate the leaf while whole to avoid the brittle leaf crumbling/powderizing from handling and if blending you'll probably want to make casing and case the leaf before you shred it.
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Dec 31, 2021 15:53:33 GMT -5
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henry
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Post by henry on Dec 31, 2021 21:37:20 GMT -5
Thanks Zach. As I've already ordered (above) I'm focused on casing recipes right now. A lot of variety. Have you tried juniper water as an ingredient? It got a strong sell on a y-tube video.
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henry
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Post by henry on Jan 2, 2022 18:14:32 GMT -5
After some web research it's for sure there is no consensus on casing cured whole leaf. Have no idea how much the leaf I ordered will have been aged.
Some say no need with any WLT order, some like casing ingredients such as malic & citric acid, juniper berry, prune, and calcium propionate among others.
As I understand the main point to casing is anti-mold, not adding flavor. I'd just like to enjoy what I've ordered within about a year and a half time frame.
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Post by Darin on Jan 2, 2022 18:34:54 GMT -5
I don't case anything but Natural Burley and, even then, it's very light and only molasses. Spray, toast and repeat about four times.
As for shredding ... roll up the leaf into a tight "cigar" and then cut to the desired thickness with a sharp knife.
The journey begins ... have fun! 🙂
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henry
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Post by henry on Jan 2, 2022 18:53:06 GMT -5
I don't case anything but Natural Burley and, even then, it's very light and only molasses. Spray, toast and repeat about four times. As for shredding ... roll up the leaf into a tight "cigar" and then cut to the desired thickness with a sharp knife. The journey begins ... have fun! 🙂 I enjoy the experimenting just not at the cost of spoiling anything. Multi blade herb scissors (cheap on amazon) have gotten raves for cutting whole leaf. Another interesting dispute: some strongly advocate adding vinegar to the casing mix while others reject it as imparting its flavor. |
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Post by Darin on Jan 2, 2022 19:10:32 GMT -5
I've used Apple Cider Vinegar infused with a touch of Cinnamon on a straight Virginia blend before and it was alright. Over time, my preference just turned to the natural tobacco flavors. Natural Burley, such as T90, can be pretty rough without some help though. My other method involves an extra fridge, crockpot and 6 weeks of babysitting so that doesn't happen much anymore. Lol
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henry
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Post by henry on Jan 3, 2022 16:08:35 GMT -5
I've used Apple Cider Vinegar infused with a touch of Cinnamon on a straight Virginia blend before and it was alright. Over time, my preference just turned to the natural tobacco flavors. Natural Burley, such as T90, can be pretty rough without some help though. My other method involves an extra fridge, crockpot and 6 weeks of babysitting so that doesn't happen much anymore. Lol interesting info I found online :
Any of the casing recipes I’ve seen have some sugar component to them (honey, chocolate, molasses, maple syrup, etc) which is also mold food. If you don’t want to add polypropylene glycol or other chemicals, then I would suggest using more natural preservatives such as alcohol and a pinch of salt in the mixture instead of water. 15% ethanol is typically the upper range that most yeast and other fungus can tolerate. I like rum personally, but vodka would be a neutral option.  I’ve successfully used a mix of 50/50 water and rum in my pipe mixes. I spray to moisten, toss to mix, let dry till it doesn’t feel “wet” any more, then jar.There seem to be 180 degree opinions on whether the sugars in casing inhibit mold. As I ordered the dark fired TN for the char flavor I'm not going to case that. Still undecided on the Virginia Flue and Latakia. Some say that Latakia should not be cased. |
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Post by Darin on Jan 4, 2022 12:55:49 GMT -5
Yes, I wouldn't use any simple sugars that weren't getting toasted. Also, drying properly before jarring is important.
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Jan 4, 2022 18:43:19 GMT -5
I don't case anything but Natural Burley and, even then, it's very light and only molasses. Spray, toast and repeat about four times. As for shredding ... roll up the leaf into a tight "cigar" and then cut to the desired thickness with a sharp knife. The journey begins ... have fun! 🙂 I enjoy the experimenting just not at the cost of spoiling anything. Multi blade herb scissors (cheap on amazon) have gotten raves for cutting whole leaf. Another interesting dispute: some strongly advocate adding vinegar to the casing mix while others reject it as imparting its flavor. Sutliff (Sutliff also produce Watch City blends and others), Mac Baren and some Gawith use vinegar as a natural inhibitor. Yes, you can taste the vinegar. C&D also use it but far less often. They do use it to case their white burley, for example. |
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Post by urbino on Jan 4, 2022 22:13:13 GMT -5
Weren't McClelland blends praised for their vinegariness?
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
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Post by Zach on Jan 4, 2022 22:24:04 GMT -5
Yes, though much of McClelland's tangy ferment flavor was the method the McNiel's used to ferment the red Virginias.
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 5, 2022 7:08:45 GMT -5
If you're looking for a smoke that does really taste like the char on a steak, look no further than Black XX twist from Sam Gawith, or the Black Twist from Gawith Hoggarth. Black XX twist tastes uncannily like the char on burnt meat, coupled with the taste of what a candle wick smells like right when you blow out a candle and smell that wick smoke. No added flavoring, they take brown flue cured Virginia leaf and they stove it until it turns black and gets a charred taste to it.
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I might add this to next month's order. Sounds like it might be interesting. Ok so the options I have are: Black bogie twist Black pigtail twist Black XXX twist I'm assuming the Black XXX is the same as the back XX that you're referring to. Have you tried the others? |
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I’ve successfully used a mix of 50/50 water and rum in my pipe mixes. I spray to moisten, toss to mix, let dry till it doesn’t feel “wet” any more, then jar.
