thewingedsloth
Junior Member
working on it
Posts: 243 
First Name: maybelater
Favorite Pipe: Todays pipe......
Favorite Tobacco: Semois mixes.
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Post by thewingedsloth on Jan 21, 2022 17:30:56 GMT -5
So after a time it is "time" to discuss the 800lb gorilla in the room.
I always thought burly was tobacciana rustica.
The nutty start(if you have quality burley) or the hot, astringent, burnt nut flavor if you buy cheap tobacco..
The only thing I feel is agreed upon is how unpleasant burley is for pipe tobacco.
Sure, in cigarettes it gives that "quick hit" and in pipe tobacco it fills the same role.
I myself keep a few tins of pure burley onhand for when I need a boost of Nicotine. having a few too many cocktails?. a bowl of burley will fix you right up!.
But honestly, burley tastes bad past mid-bowl. nothing can fix how it goes bad either..
Butley is a low sugar leaf with no chance to be "aged" as many other tobaccos can. So it can not be a part of that wondeful dance of flavors other tobaccos engage in.
So what to do with it?
Frankly, many folk joke about cornell and diehl being buried in burley... I also would take liberties with how we all should view C&D's burley problem...and make no mistake it IS a problem.
Burley tobacco is the "Feed corn" of tobaccos. nobody eats feed corn, we like sweet corn. but in cigarettes burley makes sense..just like we make high fructose corn syrup out of feed corn.
So are we not being held back from quality tobaccos by the need to sell burley?
YES!!!
Burley had a place in the working mans life.. He had few spare moments to enjoy a bowl. Factory work breaks left little time to have a bowl of complex satisfying tobacco..opting instead for a quick hit of nicotine and training an entire generation for cigarettes.
If One takes a moment they may see the synergies of burley and big tobacco.
So why are blenders still trying to push this rough edged tobacco upon us?
The easy answer is they have too much of it. the complex answer is that some of us need extra nicotine and burley does a good job of bringing that to the smoker.
So what to do?
I personally find burley and perique to work well. the spicy, peppery, fruit and the rough edges of burley seem to play well.
So while I do detract from burley, the purpose of this post is to start a discussion that ends with the right way to handle burley.
add your story of why you like or dislike burley
and what you would like to see done with this version of the tobacco leaf.
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Post by darktater on Jan 21, 2022 17:46:21 GMT -5
again, wide brushes often paint poorly....
If you don't like burley, don't smoke burley. If you do like it, smoke it.
Personally I feel burley should be considered in exactly the same way as any other varietal. Blended in the proper proportions, of the proper varieties, you can get a wonderful smoke. Or you can get something (that you consider) a terrible smoke.
C&D seems to be getting by just fine, so I would guess there are enough of us who enjoy burley for them to stay in business as is. The assumption that we are being held back from quality tobacco by burley doesn't seem to hold much water. There are a huge number of blends available in a large number of styles both with burley and without.
There is no 'one' way to handle burley, anymore than there is 'one' way to handle Virginia's, or Latakia, or Orientals. Pipe smoking is entirely too subjective for there to be 'one' way to handle a tobacco, or 'one' proper type of pipe, etc, etc.
I think everyone should just smoke what THEY like, in a pipe THEY like, and call it good.
That being said, I don't feel any need to evangelize for the pipes I like, or the tobaccos I like, or anything else for that matter. Life is short, enjoy what you enjoy.
Happy smokes
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thewingedsloth
Junior Member
working on it
Posts: 243
First Name: maybelater
Favorite Pipe: Todays pipe......
Favorite Tobacco: Semois mixes.
Location:
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Post by thewingedsloth on Jan 21, 2022 17:55:48 GMT -5
Oh dark tater,
how insightful your opening remark.
I too, agree that wide brushes can be an issue but implied complexity can show detail where none normally would be.
but thank you for the reply!
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Post by Silver on Jan 21, 2022 17:57:10 GMT -5
Yeah, totally disagree with you on burley, but its a matter of individual taste. And - burley is present in a great many blends to balance and round out flavor profiles. Of course, YMMV, and that's okay, too.
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thewingedsloth
Junior Member
working on it
Posts: 243
First Name: maybelater
Favorite Pipe: Todays pipe......
Favorite Tobacco: Semois mixes.
Location:
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Burley
Jan 21, 2022 18:00:38 GMT -5
via mobile
Ronv69 likes this
Post by thewingedsloth on Jan 21, 2022 18:00:38 GMT -5
thank you both for your input!
this thread is to illict such reponses and I thank you both for replies!
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thewingedsloth
Junior Member
working on it
Posts: 243
First Name: maybelater
Favorite Pipe: Todays pipe......
Favorite Tobacco: Semois mixes.
Location:
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Burley
Jan 21, 2022 18:14:37 GMT -5
via mobile
Ronv69 likes this
Post by thewingedsloth on Jan 21, 2022 18:14:37 GMT -5
The end results are the end of large scale burley production
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Post by urbino on Jan 21, 2022 20:18:25 GMT -5
I'm not aware that anybody's pushing burley on anybody. If people don't like it, they won't buy burley blends, blenders won't be able to sell it, and they will stop producing such blends. Since that hasn't happened -- and since some of the most popular blends are burley blends (e.g., Haunted Bookshop) -- it would seem many people like burley rather a lot.
Your vote is being registered in your buying habits, like everyone else's.
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Post by trailboss on Jan 21, 2022 20:24:20 GMT -5
Aged Burley is a whole nuther animal than the fresh stuff.
Greg Pease:
“ Q: What about that Burley stuff?
A: Burley is quite the chameleon. It can hide in a blend, taking on the characteristics of the dominant tobaccos around it, while providing increased body, a heavier mouth feel to the smoke. My guess is that you'd be surprised to learn all the myriad places Burley can be found camouflaged, lurking under cover of its surroundings!
And, all Burley is not created equal. Just like any other leaf, there's good and there's not so good. So, it's unwise to condemn all Burleys, as so many do, just because of a bad experience with inferior leaf.”
Jacknife plug, Stonehenge, Windjammer are all premium blends with burley that fit the bill for me.
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Post by sperrytops on Jan 21, 2022 21:39:53 GMT -5
I am not a fan of Burley, but when included in a blend with other tobaccos can produce some remarkably flavorful blends. KBV's Notorious for example.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 21, 2022 21:53:20 GMT -5
You are sick. I assume that you smoke that tasteless Virginia stuff that tastes like hot air. Burley IS pipe tobacco.
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Jan 21, 2022 22:06:35 GMT -5
I'm a dyed-in-wool burleyphile. While I do smoke everything, I'm often smoking burley blends all day. Burley and Virginia are the two primary varietals used in pipe tobaccos for good reason. The rest are condimentals. As others have said, you're going to smoke what you like to smoke.
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Post by sperrytops on Jan 21, 2022 22:09:03 GMT -5
You are sick. I assume that you smoke that tasteless Virginia stuff that tastes like hot air. Burley IS pipe tobacco. Yers, I am sick. lol |
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 21, 2022 22:26:31 GMT -5
You are sick. I assume that you smoke that tasteless Virginia stuff that tastes like hot air. Burley IS pipe tobacco. Yers, I am sick. lol I was referring to the OP. You can't help it, being a Kalifornian. 😉🤠 |
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Post by username on Jan 22, 2022 0:27:37 GMT -5
C&d is certainly doing for burley blends what McClelland did for virginias. I love me a lot of the c&d burley blends.
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Post by Goldbrick on Jan 22, 2022 1:50:41 GMT -5
You are sick. I assume that you smoke that tasteless Virginia stuff that tastes like hot air. Burley IS pipe tobacco. Another wide brush, but one I can paint with also. Old blends like P.A. Edgeworth, Carter Hall and their many match blends, plus newer blends like Amphora's Burley Blend and Storm Front make up a large part of my rotation, and I know I'm not alone. I enjoy many Virginia's , and my taste buds pine for many of the wonderful Virginias that McClelland once produced ...I enjoy the English tobaccos also, but to limit myself to one type, of remove any form of tobacco from my hobby, would paint me into a very small corner with that same wide brush. If you can live without burley, more power to you... it leaves more for the rest of us. |
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Jan 22, 2022 11:28:21 GMT -5
thewingedsloth A couple misconceptions with your malignment of burley leaf. Your profile states your favorite tobacco is "Semois" which is burley leaf. Burley leaf is not a Nicotiana Rustica strain of tobacco. Towards the end of your post, you mention that you like smoking burley with perique. Perique is burley tobacco heat and pressure fermented. So we have right from the start that burley is your favorite tobacco, and that to take the edge off your burley, you prefer to smoke some burley with your burley! Black cavendish tobacco is most often burley leaf. Dark fired Kentucky is burley. Burley comes in several variants, many of which are not the highest in nicotine content. Many primings of mahogany and red VA have more nicotine in the leaf. Have you sampled each leaf varietal raw and on their own? Burley is low in sugar and so it's easier on the tongue. Virginia leaf is higher in sugar content and so it's easier to get tongue bite. The most classic of codger blends are a typical mixture of VA and burley to meld flavors of both and make smoking easier on the mouth. Burley readily absorbs casings a bit better than Virginia leaf, which tends to be a bit oilier and so you get a commonality amongst most aromatic mixtures where they usually contain mostly burley leaf. Here's a list search on Tobacco Reviews for burley-based blends. Take a look through this list and you may find that some of your favorites are in there. www.tobaccoreviews.com/Search?BlendType=Burley%20Based
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 22, 2022 13:03:20 GMT -5
I smoke some Virginia tobacco, but no "straight" Virginia. I don't like Best Brown but I do like Firedance Flake, which is the same tobacco with an aromatic topping. I like it mixed with Burley, or in an English.
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Post by sperrytops on Jan 22, 2022 13:04:03 GMT -5
I was referring to the OP. You can't help it, being a Kalifornian. 😉🤠 I tries hard. |
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Post by Professor S. on Jan 22, 2022 13:34:14 GMT -5
I had become convinced that Burley, and to some extent Virginias were the bane of my tobacco experience. I agree with all those who have emphasized the contributions of both in controlled amounts to create premium blends. Here is my case in point. I recently bought some P.S.17 English Luxury from haebar and it has rapidly become my new favorite. It's deep, complex, and wonderfully flavorful. I was intrigued, so I looked to see if it is still available, what's in it, and why I've never before tried it. I was as delighted to discover that it is still available as I was surprised at the ingredients list. The description is "...bright Virginia, unflavored black Cavendish, white Burley and Cyprian Latakia." What?!? My beloved Lat was last on the list?  I've been scrupulously avoiding anything and everything with Burley and Virginia in the description, and now I have discovered that one of my absolute favorite blends is concocted primarily of both. My point in all this? Don't be too hasty. There is a chemistry as well as an artistry to creating tobacco blends. If you become too dogmatic, you might miss out on some great stuff. |
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Post by terrapinflyer on Jan 22, 2022 18:58:09 GMT -5
There's plenty of room for all. If you prefer Scotch, is bourbon crap? If you drink bourbon, is Irish unworthy? I usually reach for Virginia, with or without condiments, with or without heavy flavors. Sometimes I reach for an unadorned burley like Two Timer or Breckinridge. 'Sall good.
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Jan 23, 2022 19:46:31 GMT -5
I had become convinced that Burley, and to some extent Virginias were the bane of my tobacco experience. I agree with all those who have emphasized the contributions of both in controlled amounts to create premium blends. Here is my case in point. I recently bought some P.S.17 English Luxury from haebar and it has rapidly become my new favorite. It's deep, complex, and wonderfully flavorful. I was intrigued, so I looked to see if it is still available, what's in it, and why I've never before tried it. I was as delighted to discover that it is still available as I was surprised at the ingredients list. The description is "...bright Virginia, unflavored black Cavendish, white Burley and Cyprian Latakia." What?!? My beloved Lat was last on the list? I've been scrupulously avoiding anything and everything with Burley and Virginia in the description, and now I have discovered that one of my absolute favorite blends is concocted primarily of both. My point in all this? Don't be too hasty. There is a chemistry as well as an artistry to creating tobacco blends. If you become too dogmatic, you might miss out on some great stuff. A wonderful case in point. Very few will enjoy smoking any of these sole components on their own consistently and maybe especially so for burley, but you get the right mixture of the various elements and at the right percentages for your liking and then you find out what you thoroughly enjoy.
I recall a time some years ago when I thought similarly that burley didn't really go in a great English blend. I figured, a really tasty English blend is Virginias, Orientals, Latakia, and Perique and occasionally some black cavendish and Oriental-forward in great Balkans. I was surprised to find blends such as Gawith Hoggarth Mixture #25 (burley, Virginia, Latakia) and Morley's Best (Burley, Virginia, Latakia) to be really excellent takes on a simple English mixture that offered more body and nicotine, and I'd encourage you to give these examples a try if you haven't.
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Post by trailboss on Jan 23, 2022 19:52:58 GMT -5
Just to add.
What one does not like today, does not mean that it will not be liked tomorrow… especially with age on it.
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mrtalkradio
New Member
Fixing the World One Broadcast at a Time
Posts: 38
First Name: George
Favorite Pipe: All
Favorite Tobacco: Virgina
Location:
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Post by mrtalkradio on Jan 24, 2022 4:57:14 GMT -5
Lennon and McCartney.....Virginia and Burley, they can stand on their own, but together their better. You don't get Burley, it gets you. If you smoke a pipe long enough you'll realize all roads lead through Burley. I always see the term "codger' used to describe anyone who smokes SWR, CH, Half and Half, Prince Albert etc. As if it's some outdated ancient tobacco ruin. Fact is they are fantastic blends and used everyday by thousands of Pipe Smokers. Why? Burley.
One of the Finest Tobacco's you'll ever smoke
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msokeefe
Junior Member
Posts: 464
First Name: Mark
Favorite Pipe: Petersen Red 03 bent apple spigot, Savinelli 310 KS
Favorite Tobacco: Father Dempsey, Presbyterian, Wilke’s Crystal Palace, Westminster, Black House
Location:
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Post by msokeefe on Jan 24, 2022 9:40:59 GMT -5
So after a time it is "time" to discuss the 800lb gorilla in the room. I always thought burly was tobacciana rustica. The nutty start(if you have quality burley) or the hot, astringent, burnt nut flavor if you buy cheap tobacco.. The only thing I feel is agreed upon is how unpleasant burley is for pipe tobacco. Sure, in cigarettes it gives that "quick hit" and in pipe tobacco it fills the same role. I myself keep a few tins of pure burley onhand for when I need a boost of Nicotine. having a few too many cocktails?. a bowl of burley will fix you right up!. But honestly, burley tastes bad past mid-bowl. nothing can fix how it goes bad either.. Butley is a low sugar leaf with no chance to be "aged" as many other tobaccos can. So it can not be a part of that wondeful dance of flavors other tobaccos engage in. So what to do with it? Frankly, many folk joke about cornell and diehl being buried in burley... I also would take liberties with how we all should view C&D's burley problem...and make no mistake it IS a problem. Burley tobacco is the "Feed corn" of tobaccos. nobody eats feed corn, we like sweet corn. but in cigarettes burley makes sense..just like we make high fructose corn syrup out of feed corn. So are we not being held back from quality tobaccos by the need to sell burley? YES!!! Burley had a place in the working mans life.. He had few spare moments to enjoy a bowl. Factory work breaks left little time to have a bowl of complex satisfying tobacco..opting instead for a quick hit of nicotine and training an entire generation for cigarettes. If One takes a moment they may see the synergies of burley and big tobacco. So why are blenders still trying to push this rough edged tobacco upon us? The easy answer is they have too much of it. the complex answer is that some of us need extra nicotine and burley does a good job of bringing that to the smoker. So what to do? I personally find burley and perique to work well. the spicy, peppery, fruit and the rough edges of burley seem to play well. So while I do detract from burley, the purpose of this post is to start a discussion that ends with the right way to handle burley. add your story of why you like or dislike burley and what you would like to see done with this version of the tobacco leaf. I have been described as burly, I don’t understand your burleyphobia. Stop the H8! |
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Post by don on Jan 24, 2022 13:26:36 GMT -5
Lennon and McCartney.....Virginia and Burley, they can stand on their own, but together their better. You don't get Burley, it gets you. If you smoke a pipe long enough you'll realize all roads lead through Burley. I always see the term "codger' used to describe anyone who smokes SWR, CH, Half and Half, Prince Albert etc. As if it's some outdated ancient tobacco ruin. Fact is they are fantastic blends and used everyday by thousands of Pipe Smokers. Why? Burley.
One of the Finest Tobacco's you'll ever smoke
I love a lot of codger blends and HH Burley Flake is superb. To each, his own. |
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thewingedsloth
Junior Member
working on it
Posts: 243
First Name: maybelater
Favorite Pipe: Todays pipe......
Favorite Tobacco: Semois mixes.
Location:
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Post by thewingedsloth on Jan 28, 2022 15:52:32 GMT -5
Now that is what I call a lively thread!
As for my own burley yes, semois is burley but grown in far fields and simple handling. I think manil just dries, roasts, and packs. Another beloved blend is glp Jacknife plug, superb tobaccos.
I do think burley has a place but the quality should be as high as possible.
C&D have single handedly saved pipe smoking for me as I weaned off cigars and many blends were burley. #1-5 burley, my fav was #4. billybudd, old joe, bow legged bear, while I do not buy those now, purple cow is actually on my reorder list.
I left out dark kentucky etc. as this is a focus on common burley.
as for those fans of OTC burley blends I read they top burley with wait for it....a burley flavored topping!.. but I digress.
My main thrust of the bristle brush was to remind most burley is really not up to the task unless well prepared and of certain quality levels.
I think those such as C&D are burlys best hope and hope they know that.
I also have several blends that possess what I consider perfect burley use.
But if I have a bowl going bad after halfway it is usually a burley blend. And surprizingly the flavor when it goes off is about the same no matter the manufacturer. they seem to be involved with how quickly a blend goes "off" with C&D being the best of the lot so far.
The deeper context is to encourage discussion that finds the ears of those manufacturers. wide brush indeed....
I do hope everyone enjoyed the journey down burley road and will continue to develop the conversation.
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 28, 2022 19:26:31 GMT -5
One of my favourite tobaccos is amphora original, which I think is burley. Is cater hall too?
It's what I'm looking for in my tobaccos. I've a tin of aged burley flake from Solani but I've yet to open it.
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Zach
Pro Member
If you can't send money, send tobacco.
Posts: 4,360
First Name: Zach
Favorite Pipe: Too many currently, bound to change
Favorite Tobacco: Haunted Bookshop, Big 'N' Burley, Pegasus, Habana Daydream, OJK, Rum Twist, FVF, Escudo, Orlik Golden Sliced, Kendal Flake, Ennerdale
Location:
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Post by Zach on Jan 28, 2022 19:31:24 GMT -5
Carter Hall is burley and Virginia bright cased in molasses, whiskey, and cocoa.
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henry
Junior Member
Posts: 108
Location:
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Post by henry on Jan 28, 2022 20:27:54 GMT -5
As with barbeque sauce recipes or mixing a cocktail: burley is an ingredient that doesn't work that well as a stand alone. Most would not swig a bottle of Angostura Bitters but it's essential for many drinks. I don't eat black pepper by itself but wouldn't want to be without it. Ditto smoking Burley. It has its place. Much cavendish has some burley component. White burley makes a good base for blending.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 28, 2022 20:38:36 GMT -5
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