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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 13, 2023 23:11:29 GMT -5
This isn’t going to go over well here, but vaccination, unfortunately, is not just an individual choice. It’s a choice about everyone around us. When you're right, you're right. No agreement here. You gonna force a needle in me and walk away? 😉 |
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 13, 2023 23:18:09 GMT -5
I should have also noted without any bias that there is PLENTY of information now coming around about long COVID symptoms and it's pretty nasty. All those myocardial issues, reproductive issues, thrombosis, the whole nine with years long symptoms and side effects. The journal Nature in fact just released a report about it that there are potentially around 65 million folks with serious adverse effects living with long covid heart damage, microclotting and all that. Multi-organ damage, kidneys, brain, everything.But I'd also say that it's laughable if you think getting shot up is stopping your sickness and spreading of the virus. Every single person I know who got all the shots and a booster have gotten it and gotten others around them sick after the fact. It's a fantasy. You're just shooting up side effects and still going to get COVID and then spread it to your loved ones, anyway.
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Post by urbino on Jan 13, 2023 23:23:38 GMT -5
Do I get fries with that medical advice?
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Post by trailboss on Jan 13, 2023 23:29:29 GMT -5
I made the choice not to get vaxxed, but I am a healthy mule. Got Covid once and for me it was no big deal.
If I had other underlying health issues, my choice might have been different.
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 13, 2023 23:29:46 GMT -5
That's simply a statement and not any medical advice.
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Post by don on Jan 14, 2023 1:45:45 GMT -5
I have no idea what or who to believe anymore concerning communicable disease and vaccines. I got COVID six months into the pandemic, was pretty sick but no where near as bad as I was with H1N1 about a decade back. A friend nearly died from COVID-19, but recovered. My job required the vaccine to be able to work. Got that and one booster. I had the Omichron strain last year, which barely caused me to feel sick. Since my first bout of COVID or maybe after the vaccine, I now suffer from chronic fatigue, a speech stutter and have migraines in runs that can go as long as two weeks straight. A day without a headache is special. I don’t know if the virus, the vaccine, both or something else led to these symptoms. It is all very frustrating. Sleep often makes the headaches worse if you can believe that.
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 14, 2023 7:26:21 GMT -5
I have no idea what or who to believe anymore concerning communicable disease and vaccines. I got COVID six months into the pandemic, was pretty sick but no where near as bad as I was with H1N1 about a decade back. A friend nearly died from COVID-19, but recovered. My job required the vaccine to be able to work. Got that and one booster. I had the Omichron strain last year, which barely caused me to feel sick. Since my first bout of COVID or maybe after the vaccine, I now suffer from chronic fatigue, a speech stutter and have migraines in runs that can go as long as two weeks straight. A day without a headache is special. I don’t know if the virus, the vaccine, both or something else led to these symptoms. It is all very frustrating. Sleep often makes the headaches worse if you can believe that. I think that's the issues - it'll be very difficult to discern what's causing what, as there's no control off which to base the changes that are being observed. Therefore, it'll be damn near impossible to make any real conclusions on whether or not the 'extra complications' that people are experiencing are from the virus or the vaccine or both (especially many people were symptomless and therefore may deny they had the virus, when in fact, they did). |
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 14, 2023 12:21:17 GMT -5
I have no idea what or who to believe anymore concerning communicable disease and vaccines. I got COVID six months into the pandemic, was pretty sick but no where near as bad as I was with H1N1 about a decade back. A friend nearly died from COVID-19, but recovered. My job required the vaccine to be able to work. Got that and one booster. I had the Omichron strain last year, which barely caused me to feel sick. Since my first bout of COVID or maybe after the vaccine, I now suffer from chronic fatigue, a speech stutter and have migraines in runs that can go as long as two weeks straight. A day without a headache is special. I don’t know if the virus, the vaccine, both or something else led to these symptoms. It is all very frustrating. Sleep often makes the headaches worse if you can believe that. Wife and I are both fully vaccinated and boosted, because we've both got other conditions. We haven't had Covid, but we have had serious issues with brain fog and other weird things like terrible headaches, blurred vision, extreme fatigue, sleeplessness and such. It's hard to say that it's caused by the vaccine, but we suspect that it had something to do with it. We are mostly coming out of it, we hope. We had the Moderna vaccine for all 4 shots. I hate that they have made this political and that we aren't allowed to talk about it. I don't feel like we can trust the CDC anymore at all. They keep approving ineffective medicines for alzheimers and other things that cost more than anyone can afford and make a fraction of a percent difference in a few patients. The shutting down of free speach on the subject is the worst. The "intelligencia" is afraid that some people will be stampeded if they here something that someone else doesn't approve of. I don't know. Darwin had something I think. But why in the world would we be funding any kind of biological lab in China? Who ever thought that was a good idea? I don't trust the CDC at all but I respect those who believe in it. People need to believe in something. |
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Post by trailboss on Jan 14, 2023 14:36:26 GMT -5
This isn’t going to go over well here, but vaccination, unfortunately, is not just an individual choice. It’s a choice about everyone around us. My body, my choice. My neighbor who I get along with well, several months ago went on a Facebook rant about how everyone should have been forced to get vaccinated because people like him have compromised health issues. I watched him pound scotch and whiskey for years, constant Pizza deliveries while he probably weighs 400 pounds, knees are shot, clogged arteries, and God only knows what else. His parents recently passed away after living long relatively healthy lives, so I don’t see much of a genetic issue. But I should get the shot because he has compromised health |
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 14, 2023 17:54:33 GMT -5
"Two years after the first Covid shots went into arms, a growing chorus of researchers is calling for a new generation of vaccines that provide broader and more long-term protection against the disease.
The U.S. is currently recording around 430 Covid deaths per day, on average, according to NBC News’ tally. That includes many people who received at least two Covid shots: Six in 10 adults who died of Covid in August were vaccinated or boosted, according to a report by KFF, a nonprofit health think tank. And for the most part, vaccinated people don’t avoid infections or reinfections anymore."
~60% of folks dying are vaccinated. Some data points last summer even pointed to an alarming statistic that a majority of the deaths were vaccinated at certain weeks.
As someone who is a self-professed polymath and who very in-depth researched every white paper on Covid and vaccine efficacy since the beginning of this, and often in detriment to my own mental health, I'll say there is absolutely no public data available to this day that ever showed efficacy against infection, even after two shots and a booster. It was pure bluffing. Data simply did not exist it was only theoretical. I even went as far as stealing all the latest science white papers from Elsevier just to get my hands on all the latest data points I could POSSIBLY get. Many science white papers are behind very expensive paywalls, and I literally stole all of them as they were published.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 14, 2023 22:13:51 GMT -5
I've had 3 doctors tell me basically the same thing. And if you look at the available papers, 9 out of 10 is Chinese. I don't have any particular bad opinions on Chinese people in general, but it does look suspicious.
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 14, 2023 22:21:43 GMT -5
Many academic publishers in various countries working in the epidemiology field happen to be Chinese. That and of course, when you're already working on gain of function for horseshoe bat corona viruses you're kind of ahead of the game.  |
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Post by Zach on Jan 14, 2023 22:46:55 GMT -5
For publicly available published papers I can link to several that have American docs and researchers but there are plenty out there. Here's one in which the BNT162b2 vaccine is reviewed for 5-11 year old children in which they say that the vaccine's effectiveness is a whopping 36%.
"Our estimates of the effectiveness of two doses of the BNT162b2 vaccine against all SARS-CoV-2 infections of 36.8% (95% CI, 35.3 to 38.2) and against PCR-confirmed SARS-CoV-2 infections of 65.3% (95% CI, 62.0 to 68.3) among children 5 to 11 years of age during the omicron wave are lower than those in previous studies that were conducted when other variants were predominant." They then claim that it was 90% against the Delta ancestral strain in July 2021 in a 3-phase trail amongst 2,268 children around the US, Spain, Finland, and Poland.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 14, 2023 22:46:57 GMT -5
Many academic publishers in various countries working in the epidemiology field happen to be Chinese. That and of course, when you're already working on gain of function for horseshoe bat corona viruses you're kind of ahead of the game. 👍 |
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Post by Zach on Jan 14, 2023 22:53:08 GMT -5
My body, my choice. My neighbor who I get along with well, several months ago went on a Facebook rant about how everyone should have been forced to get vaccinated because people like him have compromised health issues. I watched him pound scotch and whiskey for years, constant Pizza deliveries while he probably weighs 400 pounds, knees are shot, clogged arteries, and God only knows what else. His parents recently passed away after living long relatively healthy lives, so I don’t see much of a genetic issue. But I should get the shot because he has compromised health There's that cultist mentality logic that I see all too often. I'm assuming he's vaccinated, yet he also believes others have to be vaccinated in order for his vaccine to work? I love that one! |
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 14, 2023 23:29:30 GMT -5
A thing about the Pfizer, Modern, and BioNTech, viral vector vaccines (J&J,AstraZeneca),and purified protein vaccine made by Novavax is they made antibodies for the ancestral WUHAN-1 lineage. sometime in mid 2021 they added in like 15-30 micrograms of BA.1 (Omicron) mRNA to attempt and cover ancestral severity which was worse symptomatically, and to cover the newest variant. When BA.1 was discovered in South Africa it contained a very "alarming" 30+ mutation hops out of nowhere. Just popped up in South Africa far more advanced than the previous. Anyway, fast forward and what people think is covering the whole thing is custom tailored mRNA for a couple strain variants but meanwhile we've had immune-evasive strains, such as BQ.1, BQ.1.1, BF.7, XBB, and XBB.1 come onto the scene. All this is to say that the way we're doing cutting edge human experimentation under the FDA EUA has to change weekly and become variant specific very soon to even be effective. This is a dangerous game considering thousands of subvariants mutating constantly.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 14, 2023 23:39:34 GMT -5
I have read several scientific articles about new discoveries in medicines that have been tested against all forms of Covid and the virus it evolved from 100%.They are doing the normal development process instead of rushing it into people. But it's looking like a pill that knocks it out. One compound blocks the specific place that the protein spike has to use to infect the cell. Another blocks the a protein used by all forms of flu virus. If we last long enough, there's light at the end of the tunnel.
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 14, 2023 23:43:33 GMT -5
One of the latest in recent development is a nasal spray. Like you mentioned also differing routes in pills and sprays looking to block the spike protein. But yeah, there's hope that another route gives us a safer way out of this.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 15, 2023 0:11:22 GMT -5
Thanks to everyone for keeping this thread friendly.
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Post by bonanzadriver on Jan 15, 2023 3:56:58 GMT -5
I too wanna thank folks for keeping reasonably cool heads. That being said, I'm hesitant to trust any gubmit organization without them proving themselves worthy of said trust. Given the BS from WHO, CDC and Fauci, Mr. Science himself, I think there's plenty of reason to exercise healthy skepticism here. Some studies have shown deaths among young athletes being up 5X last year alone. The questions I have are... Why? Were they Vax'd, Un-Vaxd, had the Wuhan Flu, didn't have it?  ? The pentagon has stopped requiring military folk be jabbed, etc... The fact that this thing got so politicized, people losing their minds on both sides, and the squelching of the hundreds of thousands of bad reactions and over 3,000 deaths from the jab here in the states alone, all of this cause me to be concerned and damn curious. |
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Post by turbocat on Jan 15, 2023 17:45:20 GMT -5
Is Something Going On? Sorry, this runs through my mind every time I see this thread.
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Post by cgvt on Jan 15, 2023 18:05:54 GMT -5
I think I'll just leave this here...  |
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Post by toshtego on Jan 15, 2023 18:18:03 GMT -5
Oh the Humanity!
Personally, I will take the Hindenburg over more of these Vax arguments!
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Post by turbocat on Jan 15, 2023 18:23:15 GMT -5
It seems that the term “Conspiracy Theory” is thrown around a lot by people who often confuse it with deductive reasoning, a practice which some can’t comprehend.
It’s interesting to note that the term “Conspiracy Theory” was first introduced into our lexicon by the CIA in the early 1950’s under project Bluebird. They paid journalists to use the term in their articles. This is a matter of public record which was admitted to by the CIA during the review of the CIA’s practices by congress in 1974 in case you were thinking it was a conspiracy theory;)
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Post by trailboss on Jan 15, 2023 19:24:28 GMT -5
The people that declined the vaccine, have no problem with those that do...everyone I know that has declined it supports those that think it is in their best interest to get vaccinated.
Not so much deference from some others.
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 15, 2023 19:46:23 GMT -5
I haven't even seen anyone talking about any conspiracies here? I only see people talking about an extremely factual, poorly rolled out vaccine trial.
To jump to mentioning conspiracy here when one hasn't been mentioned would be a logical fallacy. It's also something we often see stemming from social media lately where someone just boldly and mindlessly states that something is racist, antisemitic, or a conspiracy in order to shut someone up quickly and avoid having to think.
It's also in no way conspiracy to question why 100+ young folks are suddenly dying per month now of heart inflammation and blood clotting issues when pre-pandemic we'd see about 30 of these deaths in an entire year. Regardless of whether it's coming from Covid organ damage or from vaccines. Why can't someone ask these questions? Are they too scary? These are facts.
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Post by roadsdiverged on Jan 15, 2023 20:00:43 GMT -5
I think he was just joking?
This is the only COVID discussion that ive actually enjoyed reading. Good job keeping it civil and informative fellas.
Normally I try to avoid the topic all together
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Jan 15, 2023 20:06:14 GMT -5
As long as it can remain civil and not political it should be just fine to speak about it. I'm also glad that it has remained civil, but what else would I expect amongst pipe smoking gentleman? It may very well be just meant as a joke but it's also the case that nobody has ventured off into any conspiracies simultaneously.
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Post by Ronv69 on Jan 15, 2023 20:27:10 GMT -5
I think I'll just leave this here... You were joking, right? I seem to remember that you agreed with us about statins. |
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Post by turbocat on Jan 15, 2023 20:31:44 GMT -5
One thing I’ve come to appreciate about this forum is that it has a wide mix of people from different places, beliefs, politics, etc. and by and large there is great coexistence here. Tobacco, the great uniter! Most social media suffers (and benefits with traffic) from us vs them almost always framing everything. I’m glad it’s not that way here.
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