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Post by Plainsman on Apr 13, 2023 23:50:32 GMT -5
And of course, the 1897 is yet another John Browning design.
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Post by toshtego on Apr 14, 2023 4:36:22 GMT -5
Gunbroker has a few with decent prices on some replicas. Cimarron is supposed to be coming out with a replica but I haven't heard anything else. I doubt that one could be manufactured in the USA because of the design. Probably the most unsafe trigger ever put on a shotgun, but not an unsafe gun. I had a chance to examine one my friend had over his fireplace. It belonged to his grandfather and it wasn't a Trench Gun. It's ingenious how it's made, the smooth and easy takedown and all. That said, I don't think that I would want one. There are better shotguns for hunting and home defense and bayonets are obsolete. A M97 was my choice gun from 1970 to 2005. I know the gun with its trigger, hammer characteristics and no Safety. I am comfortable with it. As to the bayonet being obsolete, I was not a combat rifleman, so I will leave that conclusion to those who were. I do not feel a need for the military doodads on the Trench Model. The plain old 20 inch barrel with cylinder bore is fine for me. My Mossberg has a 24 inch slug barrel with sights. Since it chambers 3.5 inch shells, it is larger and heavier than the M97. The fast handling of the M97 is the main attraction for me. Kind of like the M1 Carbine versus the Garand rifle. |
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Post by trailboss on Apr 22, 2023 23:43:45 GMT -5
Got the dear John letter, carbine ammo is gone.
Getting a spam can of M2 ball…
Needed the carbine ammo more.😕
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Post by toshtego on Apr 23, 2023 8:30:01 GMT -5
Got the dear John letter, carbine ammo is gone. Getting a spam can of M2 ball… Needed the carbine ammo more.😕 Ammunition disappears fast. So many people stocking their bunkers for after the dystopian era following the apocalypse.  |
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2023 11:08:09 GMT -5
I got a thousand rounds of Federal 22lr for 50 bucks and I have 120 rounds of 350 Legend coming for $75. I don't think that the government store is all that cheap anymore.
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Post by toshtego on Apr 23, 2023 11:36:29 GMT -5
I got a thousand rounds of Federal 22lr for 50 bucks and I have 120 rounds of 350 Legend coming for $75. I don't think that the government store is all that cheap anymore. You reminded me that I took in trade a Ruger .22LR semi-auto with scope and banana magazine along with 500 rounds of ammo. It has been in the safe ever since. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2023 12:49:37 GMT -5
I got a thousand rounds of Federal 22lr for 50 bucks and I have 120 rounds of 350 Legend coming for $75. I don't think that the government store is all that cheap anymore. You reminded me that I took in trade a Ruger .22LR semi-auto with scope and banana magazine along with 500 rounds of ammo. It has been in the safe ever since. I bought a brand new Ruger 10-22 a couple of years ago and I need to shoot it someday soon. I still have my Remington Nylon 66 and a 1911-22 pistol. I haven't shot a round in 2 years besides a round of 22 mag rat shot to kill a rat. |
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Post by trailboss on Apr 23, 2023 13:06:31 GMT -5
I got a thousand rounds of Federal 22lr for 50 bucks and I have 120 rounds of 350 Legend coming for $75. I don't think that the government store is all that cheap anymore. No it isn’t certainly anymore. M2 ball has tripled in price, but when I get around to reloading I have easily 1k of brass. You cannot shoot the M1 Garand with modern 30.06 without using and adjustable gas plug (which I have but have never used) The carbine ammo was not a great price, but there never seems to be a great price for that caliber.😕 |
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Post by Plainsman on Apr 23, 2023 13:36:11 GMT -5
I’m not shooting my carbine much anymore. Not after I saw auction results for an identical late-war Winchester, like mine, but with far inferior wood. $4500. She stays mostly in the safe now. Mine was USN issue, not Army. Said to have mostly been used to shoot sharks and wild pigs.
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2023 14:52:41 GMT -5
I’m not shooting my carbine much anymore. Not after I saw auction results for an identical late-war Winchester, like mine, but with far inferior wood. $4500. She stays mostly in the safe now. Mine was USN issue, not Army. Said to have mostly been used to shoot sharks and wild pigs. Thanks for reminding me that I sold my very nice Winchester Carbine for $125 in the 80s. Sigh. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2023 15:41:57 GMT -5
While on the subject, I realized that I'm still missing stuff besides my favorite Ropp Cherrywood. Like 250 rounds of 450 Bushmaster. I searched out all of my 22 ammo during the last big shortage when there wasn't any, anywhere, at any price and I had 3500 rounds. I have the 1700 rounds I've bought since then, but I don't know where the original 3500 rounds are. If I kick the bucket, you guys need to volunteer to clean out the barn.
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Post by trailboss on Apr 23, 2023 16:50:03 GMT -5
One of my favorite rifles to shoot is my Mossberg M44, .22 bolt action. A lead lapped barrel it was used as an inexpensive way to train new soldiers, mine had not been shot much when I purchased it from the CMP… a very accurate rifle.
The cool thing is that the magazine has a threaded rod that goes up the magazine…. Left in, you can shoot .22 short, unscrew the knurled knob and remove the rod, it accepts .22 longs.
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Post by toshtego on Apr 23, 2023 16:52:25 GMT -5
I’m not shooting my carbine much anymore. Not after I saw auction results for an identical late-war Winchester, like mine, but with far inferior wood. $4500. She stays mostly in the safe now. Mine was USN issue, not Army. Said to have mostly been used to shoot sharks and wild pigs. Sailors have to eat! My uncle, David, carried one while in the USN CB and liked it well enough. Some islands still had Japanese who refused to surrender. Then he was in China and really needed it. Seems someone was always attempting to steal Navy property. |
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Post by trailboss on Apr 23, 2023 17:03:17 GMT -5
I remember hearing the stories that supposedly some soldiers in the Korean War claimed that the rounds bounced off the frozen coats of advancing Chinese. Part of that perception might have been that the ball ammo in an M1 carbine seemed puny compared to the 30.06 M1 that the veterans fought with in WWII… kinda like comparing a punch from a mid weight and a heavyweight.
Jim Cirillo of the New York stake out squad used it to great effect, and in a symposium someone asked about the efficacy of the round in that regard. He asked for volunteeers willing to Don a frozen jacket to test the theory, he had no takers.
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Post by Plainsman on Apr 23, 2023 18:22:45 GMT -5
My real-world experience on smallish critters like woodchucks with mil ammo taught me that it was mostly “ineffective.” Not so my hollow-point reloads. Guys come with back “Oh, not so! It’s a terrific killer!” Don’t bother. Save yer breath.
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Post by trailboss on Apr 23, 2023 18:51:19 GMT -5
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Post by Plainsman on Apr 23, 2023 19:16:34 GMT -5
The traditional formula for calculating FPE does not take into account bullet design or caliber. So two 110gr cartridges @ 2000FPS will come out dead equal. If one is an FMJ and one is a state of the art HP that calculation becomes meaningless and WAY misleading.
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2023 23:02:51 GMT -5
I remember hearing the stories that supposedly some soldiers in the Korean War claimed that the rounds bounced off the frozen coats of advancing Chinese. Part of that perception might have been that the ball ammo in an M1 carbine seemed puny compared to the 30.06 M1 that the veterans fought with in WWII… kinda like comparing a punch from a mid weight and a heavyweight. Jim Cirillo of the New York stake out squad used it to great effect, and in a symposium someone asked about the efficacy of the round in that regard. He asked for volunteeers willing to Don a frozen jacket to test the theory, he had no takers. Mine would shoot through a new oil drum and 10 inches into the tree behind it. I have a hard time imagining it bouncing off frozen cotton. But I wasn't there, thank G-d. |
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Post by Plainsman on Apr 23, 2023 23:06:16 GMT -5
And the beat goes on.
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2023 23:07:29 GMT -5
The traditional formula for calculating FPE does not take into account bullet design or caliber. So two 110gr cartridges @ 2000FPS will come out dead equal. If one is an FMJ and one is a state of the art HP that calculation becomes meaningless and WAY misleading. It's perfect for what it's designed for. And as you say you can load hollow points and make it useful for other things. If you hit an enemy soldier in the abdomen with it then you have taken 3 people out of the fight. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Apr 23, 2023 23:14:09 GMT -5
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Post by trailboss on Apr 27, 2023 16:10:57 GMT -5
I guess that I got the two cartons of carbine ammo after all…10 round clips in bandoliers.
The M2 ball is Lake City mfg.
More details on my order status than the original post by them.
No mention of Lake City or clips in bandoliers in the original announcement.
The out of carbine ammo” statement was made after they had already alloted mine.
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Post by Plainsman on Apr 27, 2023 17:50:17 GMT -5
Glad you got what you wanted. Some desert fun coming up!
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Post by trailboss on Apr 27, 2023 18:40:08 GMT -5
I decided to look at gunbroker knowing that prices are inflated, but even so these prices seem like the best thing going by far..
I was contacted by the CMP asking for a new notarized declaratio before they can ship even though they already charged my cc…. Went to the bank yesterday, and got the forms notarized and mailed…. Glad they did not kick me to the curb and cancel what I am not locked in to.
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Post by trailboss on May 7, 2023 22:34:04 GMT -5
Got my M2 ball  Grumbling by the ammo nerds at CMP, this is 1969 Lake City, supposedly delinked machine gun ammo (not seeing the marks), and they cut back on the propellants that year and not as accurate. As gun forums go everyone is brilliant...I will see.I have a boatload of HXP that is dead nuts accurate. Carbine ammo arrives Tuesday. The two flyers are my fault...iron sights, shoot left eye, right hand dominant, just to say that the capability of the rifle exceeds mine.  |
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