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Post by JimInks on Oct 4, 2017 10:48:59 GMT -5
I've seen this debate go on and on for years now, but haven't really seen it addressed here. How many of you prefer artisan pipes over factory pipes (some of which have some hand crafting) like Savinelli, Peterson, Comoy, etc.? Do you see many differences in smoking quality? How much do the aesthetics of the craft matter to you?
How many of you are content with factory pipes? Do you feel the added expense involved with artisan pipes are worth an differences you light find? Do you get enough of what you require in a pipe with them?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2017 11:14:18 GMT -5
I will someday get a Danish Freehand, but am in no hurry. The pipes that were given to me and the ones I found from days of old fit the bill fine. I cannot imagine pipes that smoke that much better. At some point a pipe becomes as much art as pipe. Then it moves onto more art than pipe. Not that I have an opinion, mind you
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Post by anarchisthermit on Oct 4, 2017 11:19:37 GMT -5
I only have experience with 3 factory brands, Savinelli, Kaywoodie, and Briar Works International and 1 artisan, Todd Barnard, aka sasquatch and/or BST. A dirty little secret of pipe making, anyone can with the right equipment, a little skill and patience can drill 2 holes in a block of wood so they meet as they should. Ultimately what you pay more for is the attention to detail, especially the stem work and all internal flows. While I don't get overly hung up on looks, if I buy a billiard I want a billiard. Not a billiard like pipe.
The old expression is "Familiarity breeds contempt". I also think familiarity breeds contentment. I would guess most of us have started this journey with factory pipes. Which has basically ingrained in us what a pipe looks like and smokes like. Then if we are lucky we get a chance at an artisan pipe. I don't know if they are "worth" the price. But I am damned glad I bought the one.
As a certified "Old Fart", I only recognize 2 quality levels in pipes. 1) Those that deliver consistently pleasurable smokes and 2) those that don't. I keep one and get rid of the other. Life is too short to smoke crappy pipes. Luckily, I have found a bunch of "affordable" factory pipes that are consistently good.
And then there are legions of people who say a corn cob is fantastic. they are not wrong.
You pays your money and makes your choice.
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Post by papipeguy on Oct 4, 2017 11:26:47 GMT -5
I have commission/custom pipes from several carvers. In general, these pipes are all better smokers than "factory" pipes but their real allure for me is that I had some say in their creation. After deciding on a shape I tend to let the artist do his or her thing because I feel that I'm buying a piece of art. I do have a personal limit on what I will spend but still manage to get something special without going crazy in the dollar department/ Now, higher grade pipes from the big makers like Savinelli, Peterson and others are very nice but I also set a limit on what I will spend on them. I think that when a factory pipe starts approaching the high $200's or $300 then it's time to consider a commission. So far, it's all worked out for me and there are a lot of very talented young carvers that are worth consideration.
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Post by oldcajun123 on Oct 4, 2017 12:03:58 GMT -5
I like em all, if they smoke good so much the better. Remember a Fat Woman keeps you shady in the summer and warm in the winter.
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Post by That Falls Guy on Oct 4, 2017 13:22:56 GMT -5
I've appreciated fine wood and wood grain almost all of my life. However, My opinion is that a 'factory' pipe made out of a good piece of briar is just as good as an Artisan pipe. You are not paying for better briar in an artisan pipe, you are paying for the labor and creativity put into the pipe by its maker. And they deserve it! As a 'connoisseur of the art' so to speak, (if I were better off financially),I'd buy a lot of these just for the craft,and overall talent put into them. But, when it comes down to actually smoking better, comparing apples to apples, I don't think that there would be much difference.
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Post by johnbrandt on Oct 4, 2017 13:51:49 GMT -5
I guess I'm old fashion I love my Peterson pipes all ways smoke well but then again over $200 I do look twice. I have a couple of hand craved pipes but at work I stick with a smaller pipe.
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Post by crapgame on Oct 4, 2017 15:42:50 GMT -5
Factory pipes for the most part here..i do know a gentleman that just started to carve pipes and sells them for a Very good price.Mind you he has made very few but he does have the talent to make some very nice pipes once he gains more experience.
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Zach
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Post by Zach on Oct 4, 2017 15:57:38 GMT -5
It's all about the draft. If the draw is open and fine, no whistling and constriction, then it will smoke great. Of course it needs to be made of decent briar, but I don't think ebauchon vs. high-grade plateaux briar makes any difference in terms of smoking qualities after the break in. Platueax and high grade briar essentially looks better but is cut from the outside edges of the burl, rather than the center of the block. Briar is also a fairly flavorless wood once cured so even further goes to make no difference to me. I have really, really fine smoking pipes from Dr. Grabow, Savinelli, and various other older factory pipes that just smoke very well. The only pipes that seem to smoke terribly to me end up being a screwed up airway, every single time.
I have a St. Regis pot shape pipe, a straight pipe, that was drilled out well to higher end Rick Newcombe specification to I think 3.5mm in the stem and 4.2 I think it may have been in the shank/stummel/into bowl and I promise you, if I blind folded you and had you smoke a bowl out of it and told you it was a really nice Dunhill pot, you would not notice or know any different. It's all about that draft. Paying $300+ for a pipe is paying for the brand and the bigger pipes with much more attention to detail. I will eventually get some higher grade pipes above the $200 pricepoint, but they will most likely be because I'd like some high grade Italian pipes like some Ardor and high grade Savinellis. Ardor and other high end makers do also offer some especially large and intricately carved pipes that you are just never going to get from factory pipe. Non-standard shapes and whatnot.
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Post by PhantomWolf on Oct 4, 2017 16:16:14 GMT -5
I am a 'factory pipe' smoker out of necessity. At the moment, I just do not have hundreds of dollars a month to spend on pipes(especially while I am still busy spending that amount on building my initial cellar). I have always had an eye for art though and I love and want so many pipes. haha Also like John said, customization is a huge selling point for me as well. Maybe this year for Christmas I will commission a pipe. I have even considered buying the tools and trying my own hand at the craft.
Until then, I am glad there are so many reasonable options out there for the working pipesman to enjoy the hobby with. Brebbia, Savinelli, LaRoca, and Bjarne to name a few are all factory pipes I have picked up at just under the $100 range and I cannot imagine being any happier with their quality. As ThatFallsGuy said 'You aren't paying for better briar.' It comes down to quality assurance and beyond that, I'd assume it's all aesthetes and intangibles. There is certainly something in that though. As a guitarist, when I play one of my Gibsons and I think about the American craftsmanship and attention to detail, I can almost feel/hear the difference that it makes- Whether the difference is real or perceived, it is real to me.
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Post by herbinedave on Oct 4, 2017 16:39:36 GMT -5
I enjoy my 1970 and under estate "factory" pipes, but I also have a large collection of what you refer to as artisan pipes. To each their own as this debate could go on forever and many of the important points where already discussed. I smoke what I like and another persons thoughts or views will probably not sway it in either direction.
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kraken
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Post by kraken on Oct 4, 2017 20:37:17 GMT -5
I have a few of both. I'm certainly not unhappy with my factory pipes, especially the Savinellis. And I have a ton of lower end estate pipes I bought on eBay to clean up or practice refinishing on. Those lower end pipes have value. But I like my artisan pipes better. Being an artistic person myself I like the idea of buying my pipe directly from the person who made it. And one of my artisan pipes is easily the best smoker I have. One other thing to mention is that artisan pipes don't have to be expensive. I've bought three that cost less than my savs and smoke just as well. Like someone else mentioned, you can find pipemakers that are up and coming and buy from them.
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Post by paulllaser on Oct 4, 2017 20:41:15 GMT -5
For me, the quality of the smoke is paramount. Price does not necessarily correlate with quality of smoke. I have several examples of basket pipes that are great smokers and some name pipes that are not. The better smokers seem to find their way into my smoking rotation with greater frequency. That said, I'm always on the prowl for favorite makers such as the Becker family and Castello, Radice, and Ardor pipes. They rarely disappoint me. Machine made Savinellis are usually good smokers. The feel of certain shapes tend to add something to the smoking experience also. If a pipe feels good in the hand, it is a big plus.
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Post by sparks on Oct 5, 2017 8:24:59 GMT -5
I started out as most people do, with factory estate pipes. In general, I never had an issue with them, and several still grace my pipe racks. Once I started making my own pipes, my preference obviously went to those, but I still had favorites on the factory side.
The real turning point for me was when my preference for a specific shape started influencing my purchases. There were a few companies that put out a Bing, but they were not quite "it" for me. Then, I discovered Scottie Piersel and started working with her on perfecting the shape that really suited me. The rest is history. 95% of my recent purchases have been commission pieces from her, and likely it will continue that way.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 9:00:29 GMT -5
Well I am that frugal guy who will smoke out of anything. Then I splurge and buy a really nice pipe and keep it mostly unsmoked because I don't want to mess it up.
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Oct 6, 2017 2:51:02 GMT -5
I don't experience any intrinsic superiority of one approach to pipe making over the other. I enjoy my Barlings, Sasienis, Comoys, Castellos, and Ser Jacopos as much as my Von Ercks, Talberts, Tatums, Piersels, Cannoys, Fillenwarths, and Curtzs. I have no issue with the traditional draw of my Brit wood (those guys actually did know what they were doing, Mr Newcombe's preferences notwithstanding) and I also like the open draw of many of my artisan made pipes.
Besides, the attainment of a great smoking experience is only 25% equipment. The other 75% is technique.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 6:04:51 GMT -5
I have some of everything. I enjoy GBD, BBB, Singleton, Willmer, Savinelli, even Custombilt, Mincer, Mastercraft and similar. When I can't get a pipe to smoke well, it goes away. I also have hald a dozen or so craft pipes. So far, all of those have been good smokers. My favorite hand made pipe is one I got from Ron at a bargain price. RD pipes are top notch. I also really love my Don Warren poker/nosewarmer.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2017 14:43:42 GMT -5
I have some of everything. I enjoy GBD, BBB, Singleton, Willmer, Savinelli, even Custombilt, Mincer, Mastercraft and similar. When I can't get a pipe to smoke well, it goes away. I also have hald a dozen or so craft pipes. So far, all of those have been good smokers. My favorite hand made pipe is one I got from Ron at a bargain price. RD pipes are top notch. I also really love my Don Warren poker/nosewarmer. Congrats on post #1000 Don. I have both in my regular rotation; however, they were completely different experiences. Both Ron, RDPipes, and Basil, Red Dog Pipes, will make as good a smoker as can be found and it's a pleasure doing business directly with these gentlemen. It's an effortless experience to maximize smoking pleasure as they do all the heavy lifting and their pipes are beautiful. All I do is enjoy. On the other hand, I learned more about pipes and smoking them with manufactured estate pipes. Many of them are gone now after I destroyed them with files, drills, chemicals or other unwise experiments; nevertheless, the exercise provided extremely useful knowledge. My seven day collection of Pre-Cadogan GBD 549 bulldogs are as mechanically sound as any in my regular rotation, so much so I refurbished an older rack from the same era specifically for the collection. My unfinished Savinelli Lumberman probably see as much action as any of my others in the work barn. The primary takeaway for me has been it's not necessary to drop serious jack to put together a high level briar rotation which will satisfy all needs on an extremely enjoyable functional level.
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redzin
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Post by redzin on Oct 7, 2017 12:32:33 GMT -5
I would say I prefer artisan pipes over the factory made pipes. However, I will say I am a big fan of the early (1960-1980's) Danish Stanwells. Everyone one I have owned smoked great and was well made. Also, I do own a couple of Italian Mario Grandis, and both are well made and great smokers as well. The artisans are my freehand collection, both Danish and American mostly from the 1960-1980's. There are some variations on how well each smoke; my favorites being Ben Wade, Bjarne, and Randy Wiley. I say the Danish are artisans because they ventured away from the conventional shapes. That's why I enjoy the freehands so much.
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Post by simnettpratt on Oct 7, 2017 22:32:38 GMT -5
I haven't been able to afford an artisan pipe yet, but my pipes smoke randomly well, which doesn't seem to be affected by what they are. My one Dunhill I got for Christmas is one of my worst smokers; tight draw and smokes really wet, my best smoking pipe remains the $80 Brigham Mountaineer I won in the old cartoon contest. One day I plan on having Ryan Alden make me a belge, but that's far down the road, any smoking money is going to go on tobacco for a good while. All my cobs smoke perfectly
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2017 23:13:04 GMT -5
My pipes get handled. I don't polish them. I do keep them clean and wiped off. I just remember an old friend, forty-five years older at the time. We used to sit and smoke our pipes and tell tales, mostly true, always humorous. His pipe was an old briar that had a bowl that was burnt around the top to where it lost about a quarter inch or more. The cake on the side had a big gouge, almost putting a hole in the side. His daughters gave me it after he died. Thing is, you couldn't get him to smoke another pipe, maybe a cob. Do I think I enjoyed my smokes more than he did his? I doubt it. If I ever gift a pipe I would probably do what I could to make it look really nice. Since I'll never sell one I'll just enjoy them without being too anal
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Post by pappyjoe on Oct 8, 2017 8:04:10 GMT -5
I have 2 Artisan pipes. One has been a great smoker from the day I bought it. The other was sent back after the first day I smoked it because the drilling wasn’t right and it had a bad draw. It wouldn’t pass a cleaner either. The artisan finally sent a new one that was good.
I have an affinity for Italian made pipes and have never had a problem with my Savinellis, Rinaldos, Armellinis, etc.
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Post by trailboss on Oct 8, 2017 10:42:37 GMT -5
That sounds like a picture perfect reason to start a GBD thread....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2017 11:05:28 GMT -5
That sounds like a picture perfect reason to start a GBD thread.... I'll get some pics up this week and start a thread. For me, they are the perfect "flake pipe." Slippery slope I know but the mechanics on the old GBD 549s are pretty incredible for factory pipes and the bowl dimensions scream flake.
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Post by trailboss on Oct 8, 2017 11:55:59 GMT -5
That sounds like a picture perfect reason to start a GBD thread.... I'll get some pics up this week and start a thread. For me, they are the perfect "flake pipe." Slippery slope I know but the mechanics on the old GBD 549s are pretty incredible for factory pipes and the bowl dimensions scream flake. I have to concur,even as billiards, canadians, lovats, etc.....they are great for flake, it is amazing how long of a smoke I can get out of one...sometimes my wife loses me for the evening when the siren call of lady nicotene calls, and my trusty GBD shows up for duty.
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Post by GRUMPY on Oct 8, 2017 14:41:38 GMT -5
Having only one artisan pipe, I don't think I'm an expert on them. I do see the attraction to ordering a pipe to your own specifications. You get the pipe in the shape, finish and stem of your choice. The are a few who make such pipes even I can afford.
I would define "Artisan" as having been made by the "Artist". Not made by others under his direction. Another question is the pipe made totally by the artist, or shaped by someone else, and hand finished by the artist? I'd say the former would only make it an artisan pipe.
I have many factory pipes which give me excellent service, and smoke quite well. I also see the the tobacco one uses as contributing to one's perception as to how well a pipes smokes. Some tobacco blends require knowing how to pack them. One tobacco smokes strong if packed too tightly, the same smokes well if the packing is moderate in it's packing. Not too tight or too loose.
My bottom line is my bottom line. Is the pipe with in my budget, or is it something I'd have to save up for. The later doesn't satisfy my PADS well. Said pipe would have to be very special for me to justify it's purchase. Realizing many make as much as I do in a month in a week or a day. Said income gives on the freedom to buy such costly pipes which would exceed my discretionary income. I'll not buy a pipe which would cut into my ability to make my obligations, such as food and mortgage payment. Maybe if the Pope or Dalai Lama made it.
My conclusion is buy the pipe which makes you happy, and fill it with the tobacco which does the same.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 9, 2017 1:40:25 GMT -5
Sink me! I found a beautiful pipe that has tickled my fancy 1.5 times what I say in my mind I won't go more for a pipe. Suffering from LackaJack I will get over it. But soft, what light throw yonder pipe stems shines? It is the flashlight and Tsuge is the Sun. Arise fair Tsuge-san and kill the flashlight Sun Wannabe, who is already sick and pail with grief that thou, the Tsuge Pipe art far more fair than she... 305 clams. 61 Fins. 30 Sawbucks and 1 fin. I dream on. I will have it. Odd's Fish, I am like a pebble under her warm running brook. Yet she calls to me, e'en from the sea she rolled out to. The Waves Be Chaunting the Lorelei Beautiful pipe dream wake unto me Starlight and tobacco are waiting for thee Sounds of the rude world heard in the day Are by the twilight all passed away. Beautiful pipe dream queen of my song Give in while I woo thee with soft songs not long Goo Goo Ga Joob
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Post by Artistik on Oct 9, 2017 7:56:29 GMT -5
I have only acquired two artesian pipes. While I will proudly admit that Basil's pipes are the best smokers I have, I find that Savinelli's and even a basket pipe or two I own smoke very well. Thankfully, because I do not have the money to spend on artesian pipes.
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Post by qmechanics on Jan 29, 2019 2:23:32 GMT -5
I prefer artisan pipes (Depending on one's definition, my collection has more factory than artisan pipes. The pipes that can be labeled artisan are typically within the mid-lower end of the market and/or made by lesser known carvers.). However I have a pipe buying budget geared towards the deal and have purchased almost all of my pipes around the lower end (<~100) of new factory pipe prices. Obviously, I am attracted to the second hand market.😁
The artisan pipes are unique and appreciated for their design, craftsmanship, care, finishes etc. . On that level I do get more pleasure smoking artisan pipes while acknowledging the fact that a good smoking pipe really comes down to good materials, construction and pipe mechanics. These things can be found in both artisan and factory pipes.
PS To add I would not forget the skill/understanding of the pipe smoker....
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Post by unknownpipesmoker on Jan 29, 2019 4:50:10 GMT -5
I've seen this debate go on and on for years now, but haven't really seen it addressed here. How many of you prefer artisan pipes over factory pipes (some of which have some hand crafting) like Savinelli, Peterson, Comoy, etc.? Do you see many differences in smoking quality? How much do the aesthetics of the craft matter to you? How many of you are content with factory pipes? Do you feel the added expense involved with artisan pipes are worth an differences you light find? Do you get enough of what you require in a pipe with them? It really gets confusing Jim because Sav and Pete both make factory pipes and artisan pipes. And some factory pipes are going for over five bills thesedays. For me, I think artisan pipes make a nice fancy gift, like a wedding present, or something. Other than that, I don't really see the need to spend so much money. It's nice to have a "one of a kind" gift.
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