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Post by sparks on Nov 13, 2017 14:41:14 GMT -5
So, after realizing that my fresh OJK was not quite as good as my 2009 batch, I set out to see what changes I could encourage on my own without having to wait almost 10 years for the same result. I decided I would take the tobacco baking that others have done and utilize it in a bulk tobacco situation. It was really a random test, with some direction from threads I read elsewhere about how to do this. This is what I did. I have a pan which I used that is similar to a Pyrex, only metal. It has a metal lid that slides on to the top as well. Convenient as it's all a nice little enclosed atmosphere for the tobacco. If you don't have this, you could just use tinfoil. I cut a piece of parchment to line the bottom, for no apparent reason that I thought it better to not have the tobacco in contact with the metal bottom. Probably not a big deal, but what the hell, I had parchment paper handy. I spread a couple oz. out in the pan and off we went. - Set oven to 180˚
- Place oven safe dish of water on bottom rack.
- Place container on bottom rack for 1 hour.
- At 1 hour mark, remove tobacco and stir.
- Re-cover and place back in oven for 1 hour.
- At 2 hour mark, remove tobacco. Stir and spray with distilled water until moist.
- Raise oven temp to 200˚
- Re-cover and place back in oven for 1 hour.
- At 3 hour mark, remove tobacco and stir.
- Re-cover and place back in oven for 1 hour.
- At 4 hour mark, remove tobacco and let cool.
So, after 4 hours in the oven, the tobacco was visibly darker, though not in a significant way. The most prominent aroma to me was Burley. Nary a hint of VA to my nose, but what do I know.
I loaded a bowl and fired it up. Not a significant change, but it seems to have softened the rough edges a bit. What doesn't exist is any increase in the sweetness of the Red Virginia. This would indicate to me that while baking this type of tobacco may smooth a blend out, it's certainly not going to replicate the effects of a few years stored away.
I might give this another go for a longer period, but I suspect the most that will happen is a slightly more homogeneous blend. If you want the sugary sweet VA's that you get from aging, you better put your patience pants on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 15:01:44 GMT -5
Wow, thanks. I have been wondering about putting a tray in the oven. Without water I would think you might get a toasted flavor out of this. I love this idea, but I don't love the idea of Xuan sticking a shotgun in my face
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Post by sparks on Nov 13, 2017 15:08:05 GMT -5
Wow, thanks. I have been wondering about putting a tray in the oven. Without water I would think you might get a toasted flavor out of this. I love this idea, but I don't love the idea of Xuan sticking a shotgun in my face   |
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Post by herbinedave on Nov 13, 2017 15:32:06 GMT -5
GL Pease has a write up somewhere online about baking tins. I know the Cajun did if with some success!
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Post by Ronv69 on Nov 13, 2017 15:36:34 GMT -5
I thought you were going to add the tobacco to a batch of brownies!
I would suggest that you jar it and leave it in a Texas attic for a summer.
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Post by Darin on Nov 13, 2017 15:39:12 GMT -5
Sounds like a fun afternoon! Try it without the water pan and pulling the tobacco every 20 minutes or so to spritz. Also, this works better if you add a little sugar to the water ... 1 TBPS of chocolate syrup per ounce of water works well. OJK has enough Virginia in it that the pressure cooker / mason jar method might have a better result. Good luck and happy cooking!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2017 15:40:05 GMT -5
Wow, four hours. I would not have thought to go that long. And only the one addition of water? The tobacco did not end up crunchy?
Concerning the effect on the red Virginia, there's not a lot in OJK, is there? (It's been a long time since I smoked it.) You might taste a difference in a blend with a higher percentage of red VA.
Interesting stuff, Sparks. Thanks.
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Post by sparks on Nov 13, 2017 16:02:16 GMT -5
OJK has enough Virginia in it that the pressure cooker / mason jar method might have a better result. Good luck and happy cooking! I wish I had a pressure cooker, I would be interested in trying that out. Other than the obvious difference of adding pressure in addition to heat, what reactionary differences do you think are happening that would change the result? Try it without the water pan and pulling the tobacco every 20 minutes or so to spritz. Also, this works better if you add a little sugar to the water ... 1 TBPS of chocolate syrup per ounce of water works well. That sounds interesting. What difference does the sugar in the water make? Wow, four hours. I would not have thought to go that long. And only the one addition of water? The tobacco did not end up crunchy? Concerning the effect on the red Virginia, there's not a lot in OJK, is there? No, the tobacco did not end up crunchy at all. Covering with tinfoil plus the water dish in the oven I think helped. There is a decent amount of Red Virginia in OJK I think. Enough so that there is noticeable difference in the aged OJK I have as far as sweetness. I know that didn't come from the Burley. |
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Post by trailboss on Nov 13, 2017 16:08:13 GMT -5
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Post by Darin on Nov 13, 2017 16:14:32 GMT -5
It's the Maillard Reaction and works with higher sugar content leaves (ie. Virginias) .... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction
When toasting Burley, the natural sugar content is fairly low. Adding a little in between the toasting helps to smooth and mellow the flavor.
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Post by crapgame on Nov 13, 2017 17:57:39 GMT -5
Great Ideas!!!I think i need to try this!!!
I have some Acadian perique VA tobacco...I wonder what that would be like to cavendash?
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Post by sparks on Nov 13, 2017 18:23:46 GMT -5
I'm assuming the pressure cooker allows you to reach the necessary temperature without scorching or burning the tobacco as an oven might do? Do you have the details of the mason jar/pressure cooker method? |
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sablebrush52
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Post by sablebrush52 on Nov 13, 2017 18:43:41 GMT -5
GL Pease has a write up somewhere online about baking tins. I know the Cajun did if with some success! Greg has written on this and you can read it here: www.glpease.com/FAQ.html#AGEHis response, for those of you who don't want to read through the section on aging, is simple and concise: Q - I've read about heating the tobacco in a microwave. Is this a good idea? A - In a word, NO! Heating any tobacco that you like is not a good idea, as it will change the character of the blend. He continues on from there. Bottom line, blenders do this when they create a blend because they're looking for specific flavors. Heating the tobacco more will change the blend. You might like the change or you may find it unpleasant, but under no circumstances is heating a blend a way to give it the flavor it will achieve when aged properly. Sound of bubbles bursting... |
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Post by oldcajun123 on Nov 13, 2017 18:54:34 GMT -5
I had success with this with Erinmore, made all the difference in the world, 6 hrs in oven, unopened tin at 180 degrees, placed tin on cookie sheet in case of accident, the smell was luscious, made me want to eat it, which I didn't.
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Post by sparks on Nov 13, 2017 19:01:16 GMT -5
Bottom line, blenders do this when they create a blend because they're looking for specific flavors. Heating the tobacco more will change the blend. You might like the change or you may find it unpleasant, but under no circumstances is heating a blend a way to give it the flavor it will achieve when aged properly. Sound of bubbles bursting... No bubbles bursting here. As I concluded with my little experiment, It became obvious that there was no chance of duplicating the effects of some good old fashioned cellaring. I was certainly curious if it would take the harshness out of fresh OJK though. Somewhat, but some of the other suggestions may help in that arena. |
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Post by sparks on Nov 13, 2017 21:59:15 GMT -5
Darin , I took your advice and mixed up some chocolate syrup and distilled water. 0 min. - Sprayed tobacco down until moist, placed in 200˚ oven. 30 min. - Removed. Stirred tobacco, but did not spray again as it was still pretty moist. Back in oven. 60 min. - Removed. Sprayed. Stirred. Back in the oven. 90 min. - Removed, Stirred but did not spray. Back in the oven. 120 min. - Removed, let cool and bagged. So a total of another 2 hours in the oven using the chocolate topping I mixed up. The tobacco was perfect moisture level when I removed it. I noticed that the tobacco touching the sides was significantly more dry than the rest, but it wasn't much. I suspect if I did not have parchment paper on the bottom, the tobacco would "toast" more than it did. It's also important to note that this is the same tobacco from earlier that I baked for 4 hours, so I suspect that will influence the final product, but I'm not sure how much. Smoking a bowl of it now. Wow, it is noticeably smoother. The harshness that was evident in both the fresh and even the 4 hour baked is gone. There is a pronounced "cocoa" flavor, but not sweet. What a difference. Having smoked every variety of C&D Burley straight, I can say for sure they don't do much to it in the processing. Whatever casings are added are minimal, which is why I suspect much of their Burley can be almost "raw" and harsh. This has been a fun experiment.
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jitterbugdude
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Post by jitterbugdude on Nov 14, 2017 4:41:08 GMT -5
Do you have the details of the mason jar/pressure cooker method? I've made about 5 pounds of Cavendish from Virginia leaf using the pressure cooker method. The stuff tastes like candy when done. Method: Pack a mason jar(s) with moist Virginia tobacco. I've used shredded and whole leaf. The whole leaf I use in plugs and the shredded is ready to blend as soon as it's cooled. Place mason jar into a pressure cooker with a few inches of water in the cooker. Place lid and process for 4 hours. You want enough heat so that your dial max's out (which is usually about 15 psi). After 4 hours, let cool. Remove jar, open and enjoy. The more moisture you add the darker and sweeter your tobacco will be. I've also used this method with several of my blends (that contained Perique) and there was no noticeable difference in the taste. Works great for pure Virginias though . When you take the finished tobacco out of it's jar you will need to air it out for a few hours to a few days to dry it back to a normal level (which will also prevent mold growth). |
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Post by Darin on Nov 14, 2017 6:59:16 GMT -5
sparks ... awesome! It doesn't work with cased / topped Burley but, as you stated, C&D often leaves it quite natural. I use this method on whole-leaf burley prior to pressing or blending it. Thanks, jitterbugdude for posting your pressure cooker method. Randy and some others over at FTT Forums taught me this and it works great. One thing to note is that it may take more than 4 hours and it's OK to refill the water in the pot and keep cooking. I've gone all the way out to 12 hours. Just keep an eye on the jars and make sure they stay moist inside. Here's some Red FCV that underwent the process:  
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jitterbugdude
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Post by jitterbugdude on Nov 14, 2017 9:46:55 GMT -5
Awesome... How's it taste?
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Post by Darin on Nov 14, 2017 10:21:02 GMT -5
Awesome... How's it taste?
Agreed! 
For anyone wanting to try this at home without whole-leaf ... McClelland #5100 will respond well to this process.
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Post by daveinlax on Nov 14, 2017 11:44:33 GMT -5
I left a couple of sealed tins out in my garage in Southern Arizona since January. I wonder how they will turn out?  |
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Post by Darin on Nov 14, 2017 11:55:57 GMT -5
Only one way to find out! 
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Post by Nevadablue on Nov 14, 2017 12:01:05 GMT -5
Wow, thanks. I have been wondering about putting a tray in the oven. Without water I would think you might get a toasted flavor out of this. I love this idea, but I don't love the idea of Xuan sticking a shotgun in my face ......... ....... .... U gotta aim... Interesting subject. Now I need to look for more info. |
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Post by slowroll on Nov 14, 2017 13:24:52 GMT -5
I've had some interesting results just pressing blends for a few days, maybe I'll try this one these days. Since I mostly smoke lat blends, not sure if it'll do anything.
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Post by Darin on Nov 14, 2017 15:21:54 GMT -5
A short (10-15 second) burst in the microwave doesn't change the flavors ... I've done this hundreds of times.
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duffer
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Post by duffer on Nov 15, 2017 11:58:44 GMT -5
Interesting thoughts. Appreciate the post. I think I will let my tobacco grow old with me.
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Post by slowroll on Nov 25, 2017 19:14:49 GMT -5
Tried the baking, had great results with Haddo's Delight and HH vintage Syrian. 200-ish degrees for 5 hours.
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Post by trailboss on Nov 25, 2017 20:05:09 GMT -5
A short (10-15 second) burst in the microwave doesn't change the flavors ... I've done this hundreds of times.
My modus operandi..... all it does is lower the moisture content with that amount of time. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 20:09:20 GMT -5
If I recall correctly, Lucky Strikes promoted their tobacco as Toasted.
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Post by danno44 on Nov 25, 2017 20:24:56 GMT -5
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