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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 22:17:21 GMT -5
I think the often repeated: Burley doesn't age well is an Internet myth.
I am smoking a 12 yr old batch of Sir Walter Raleigh and it is good . . . . boutique blend good!
Flavorful and smooth, it has truly improved over time. Pop the lid and it smells as good a fresh baked cinnamon rolls.
What is your experience and have you noticed a similar improvement in an aged Burley blend ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 22:28:10 GMT -5
I read where it gets more cigar-like, which would not be a good draw to me, but I have not found it that way. My rule of thumb: When they say it ain't it be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2018 23:12:57 GMT -5
Agree. Solani Aged Burley Flake seems smoother to me with age. I have some Uhle's 00 in the five year range ready to tap. Should be interesting.
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Post by trailboss on Feb 4, 2018 1:03:01 GMT -5
I cannot remember the guest from the PM magazine podcast (last 6 months or so), but he was pretty authoritatively saying that he smokes no burleys with less than 5 years age on them...since he has decades of smoking ahead of me, who am I to disagree?
I already had some cellared with a couple years, but it motivated me to buy more to set back.
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jitterbugdude
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Post by jitterbugdude on Feb 4, 2018 8:58:42 GMT -5
I am smoking a 12 yr old batch of Sir Walter Raleigh and it is good . . . . boutique blend good! Flavorful and smooth, it has truly improved over time. Regular SWR or the aromatic version? |
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Post by Darin on Feb 4, 2018 9:58:42 GMT -5
A lot of the confusion comes from the terminology used.
When you say "aged", there are several factors at play.
There's fermentation of sugars and anaerobic reactions taking place.
With Virginia leaf's higher sugar content, this seems more noticeable.
However, there are also ongoing enzymatic reactions occuring.
In Burley, these are likely the ones that help mellow it over time.
In addition, there's tricks used to shorten this time and to stop reactions.
Lots of reading out there on Tobacco leaf chemistry and it's super cool!
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davek
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Post by davek on Feb 4, 2018 11:04:26 GMT -5
They say burley does not mellow with stoving as well, and it surely does.
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Post by Darin on Feb 4, 2018 11:29:05 GMT -5
They say burley does not mellow with stoving as well, and it surely does. That's one of the tricks ... coat it and toast it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 15:18:21 GMT -5
I am smoking a 12 yr old batch of Sir Walter Raleigh and it is good . . . . boutique blend good! Flavorful and smooth, it has truly improved over time. Regular SWR or the aromatic version? Standard SWR J-Bug, though a few years on the aro might be interesting. Think it would mellow that overt liqueur topping. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2018 15:51:22 GMT -5
Warning on overt liqueur/liquor. I have some 80s Bond Street, which is Bourbon. The booze can take on a life of its own, as did my Lorillard Burgundy. I have to cut mine to enjoy them, but cutting them means they will last longer. The Bond Street came out as strong as a cologne, btw
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 5, 2018 10:19:00 GMT -5
The 5+ years old Classic Burley Kake I picked up in New Mexico on vacation is noticeably improved over the fresh.
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jitterbugdude
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Post by jitterbugdude on Feb 5, 2018 11:27:58 GMT -5
Regular SWR or the aromatic version? Standard SWR J-Bug, though a few years on the aro might be interesting. Think it would mellow that overt liqueur topping. Cool.. Thanks.. I might pick up a tub or 3 for when I'm retired (which is 4 years and counting) |
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Post by trailboss on Feb 5, 2018 15:09:08 GMT -5
The 5+ years old Classic Burley Kake I picked up in New Mexico on vacation is noticeably improved over the fresh. That is good to know, I had no idea when I bought 5 or 6 tins that it was an aro... smoked one, it was good, but I decided to let them age.. they have about 3 years on them. |
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Post by haebar on Feb 5, 2018 16:23:06 GMT -5
The 5+ years old Classic Burley Kake I picked up in New Mexico on vacation is noticeably improved over the fresh. That is good to know, I had no idea when I bought 5 or 6 tins that it was an aro... smoked one, it was good, but I decided to let them age.. they have about 3 years on them. The good thing about Classic Burley Kake is that the flavorings added are all natural; so there is probably nothing that will impede the aging of this fine blend. Checked my cellar and I have over a pound of this in tins. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 16:35:13 GMT -5
They say burley does not mellow with stoving as well, and it surely does. That's one of the tricks ... coat it and toast it. @darin what would you coat it with? |
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 5, 2018 18:08:45 GMT -5
That's one of the tricks ... coat it and toast it. @darin what would you coat it with? Flexseal works for everything. |
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Post by Darin on Feb 5, 2018 18:15:05 GMT -5
@darin what would you coat it with? Flexseal works for everything. Lol ... love that stuff! David, many different sugars can be used but the two I like most are molasses/treacle or chocolate. |
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Post by headrott on Feb 6, 2018 7:42:55 GMT -5
Not straight Burley, but C&D OJK is excellent with age on it. I have not popped my 12 oz. Jar yet, but I would guess my 3+ year aged jar of Pegasus will be excellent too.
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davek
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Post by davek on Feb 7, 2018 3:49:22 GMT -5
I did some quick and dirty experimentation yesterday. I dried a heavy burley blend that I made completely, crispy dry. Upon rehydration it seemed that the bite was significantly reduced. I wonder if the complete drying breaks down some ammonia compounds responsible for bite.
I sprayed some of this with sugar water and toasted it, just around 200 degrees for 1/2 hour or so. Poof... I made SWR. The nutty burley taste was changed and it was a little more bitter. To me, I lost some flavor I liked. The bite was nearly eliminated though.
Mixing this with the only dried and rehydrated stuff was pretty tasty however. Although it did goop up a pipe, which I hate.
So, this was quick and dirty, as said. No time for blends to meld, marry, or even settle down and catch their breath for gosh sakes. But I do think complete drying cuts the bite some while retaining the burley taste pretty well. Today I intend to dry a batch of pure burley completely, spray with a very light sugar water solution, and toast ever so lightly.
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Post by Darin on Feb 7, 2018 6:22:31 GMT -5
Glad you tried it ... it works! |
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Post by trailboss on Feb 7, 2018 9:57:03 GMT -5
I can’t say that I ever get a burley bite, only sister Virginia seems to do so... I think I see continuing evidence of individual PH being a big factor.
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davek
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Post by davek on Feb 7, 2018 10:12:04 GMT -5
Seems like either too acid or too alkaline will bite. Burley is alkaline and sugar will generate an acid as it combusts.
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jitterbugdude
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Post by jitterbugdude on Feb 7, 2018 12:08:24 GMT -5
Seems like either too acid or too alkaline will bite. Burley is alkaline and sugar will generate an acid as it combusts. Actually Burley is acidic. It's just that its a little higher on the pH scale than Virginia. Maryland is also acidic but its higher on the pH scale than Burley Typical pH readings are: Virginia= to about a pH of 5.5, Burley is roughly 5.8 to 6 and Maryland is about a 6.6-ish |
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davek
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Post by davek on Feb 7, 2018 13:28:13 GMT -5
Hmm. I thought that Burley helps Virginia bite since it was alkaline, like Perique. So how does it do so? How does sugar work? I've a lot to learn and there are conflicting opinions online.
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Post by johnlawitzke on Feb 7, 2018 21:46:39 GMT -5
Not straight Burley, but C&D OJK is excellent with age on it. I have not popped my 12 oz. Jar yet, but I would guess my 3+ year aged jar of Pegasus will be excellent too. Yes, it will be. I have had 5 and 10 year old Pegasus. It still tastes a lot like fresh Pegasus, but age has really smoothed out the Burley harshness that you get with fresh Pegasus. |
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Post by headrott on Feb 8, 2018 4:04:18 GMT -5
Not straight Burley, but C&D OJK is excellent with age on it. I have not popped my 12 oz. Jar yet, but I would guess my 3+ year aged jar of Pegasus will be excellent too. Yes, it will be. I have had 5 and 10 year old Pegasus. It still tastes a lot like fresh Pegasus, but age has really smoothed out the Burley harshness that you get with fresh Pegasus. Thanks John for the info. (and for making me want to pop the jar of Pegasus. It's OK, I have another 1.5 pounds ageing in the cellar too).  |
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jitterbugdude
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Post by jitterbugdude on Feb 8, 2018 9:26:02 GMT -5
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Post by trailboss on Feb 8, 2018 12:09:45 GMT -5
Great resource Randy, thank you.
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Post by davek on Feb 9, 2018 3:34:24 GMT -5
That *is* a very nice, informative article. It answered some questions for me but raised some too. I'll be typing one handed from carpel tunnel surgery for a few more weeks so 'scuze my posts.
I have been smoking cigar leaf in a pipe. Lately I've purchased some bright leaf and some burley. I like the tang of the bright leaf added to blends and like the taste of burley period. They both bite me though, although it seems a different kind of bite with each. Bright leaf mixed w/ Perique eliminates bite and is tasty. Burley mixed w/ bright leaf cuts the bite some.
Little to no income for a while but lots of time to play so I wanna try things. Using what I have and making a mix to go around 50% with the cigar leaf would be good.
As an ex-cigar smoker I puff on the fast side. You can do that w/cigar leaf with no consequences and I enjoy it honestly.
So, it kinda says free base nicotine is something to consider maybe even more than PH. Yet cigar leaf is alkaline with a lot of free base and you get no bite.
Why does virginia bite? How does PH matter in bite? Why does burley mixed w/ bright leaf cut some bite?
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davek
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Post by davek on Feb 9, 2018 8:29:41 GMT -5
That *is* a very nice, informative article. It answered some questions for me but raised some too. I'll be typing one handed from carpel tunnel surgery for a few more weeks so 'scuze my posts. I have been smoking cigar leaf in a pipe. Lately I've purchased some bright leaf and some burley. I like the tang of the bright leaf added to blends and like the taste of burley period. They both bite me though, although it seems a different kind of bite with each. Bright leaf mixed w/ Perique eliminates bite and is tasty. Burley mixed w/ bright leaf cuts the bite some. Little to no income for a while but lots of time to play so I wanna try things. Using what I have and making a blend to mix around 50% with the cigar leaf would be good. As an ex-cigar smoker I puff on the fast side. You can do that w/cigar leaf with no consequences and I enjoy it honestly. So, the article kinda says free base nicotine is something to consider maybe even more than PH. Yet cigar leaf is alkaline with a lot of free base and you get no bite. Why does virginia bite? How does PH matter in bite? Why does burley mixed w/ bright leaf cut some bite? It's nice to have blending gurus around to educate me. |
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