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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 23, 2018 18:53:02 GMT -5
Please remove if this is considered politics or religion.
On this day in 1836, 1500 Mexican troops entered San Antonio to begin the siege of the Alamo.
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Post by Dramatwist on Feb 23, 2018 18:55:03 GMT -5
...well remembered...
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Post by zambini on Feb 23, 2018 19:35:55 GMT -5
Bunch of ungrateful insurrectionists and foreign interventionists. I hear their sheep were ill mannered as well.
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 23, 2018 22:38:49 GMT -5
Bunch of ungrateful insurrectionists and foreign interventionists. I hear their sheep were ill mannered as well. I know that you have a different perspective on this. Remember that Santa Ana ripped up the Constitution of 1824 and all of the Mexican states rebelled. Coahilla y Tejas was only one of them, and only Tejas got away. The rebellious states were treated worse than the South after the American Civil War. I can't believe that Santa Ana was forgiven after the Pastry War. We don't like sheep in Texas. They have destroyed half the prairies in the state. |
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Post by puffy on Feb 23, 2018 22:43:23 GMT -5
Saw the movie. Didn't like the ending.
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Post by zambini on Feb 23, 2018 23:23:05 GMT -5
Bunch of ungrateful insurrectionists and foreign interventionists. I hear their sheep were ill mannered as well. I know that you have a different perspective on this. Remember that Santa Ana ripped up the Constitution of 1824 and all of the Mexican states rebelled. Coahilla y Tejas was only one of them, and only Tejas got away. The rebellious states were treated worse than the South after the American Civil War. I can't believe that Santa Ana was forgiven after the Pastry War. We don't like sheep in Texas. They have destroyed half the prairies in the state. I totally agree with you that Santa Ana was the worst in so many things. If anything his none stop comebacks to power were a sign of the long term political instability Mexico suffered. Frankly the polticial instability that affected Mexico between 1810 to around 1942 (or there abouts) is the cause of many ills. That still doesn't mean that the Alamo wasn't a battle pitting a legitimate government responding to legitimate internal concerns versus a bunch of insurrectionists and foreign interventionists with unpopular sheep.  |
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 23, 2018 23:59:41 GMT -5
I'm sure Santa Ana considered himself to be a "legitimate government" Too bad the rest of the country didn't agree, and he had the world's most mod army to back him up. I suppose we look like the Taliban to you.
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Post by zambini on Feb 24, 2018 1:36:43 GMT -5
Ronv69 Santa Ana led the internationally recognized government, no real point debating that. The idea that citizens challenged the legitimacy of the government through unsanctioned means i.e. arms makes them insurrectionists, no real point debating that. I imagine the Taliban would see the US intervention in Afghanistan and the regime change that went with it as illegitimate. I can't imagine too many countries would see the intervention of foreign citizens in their internal affairs, including insurrections, a good thing. One might even call such people foreign interventionists. I think the important thing about all this is that US-Mexico relations have evolved well past this argument. It shows the level of deep-seated trust and understanding on both sides with regards to the other. One can only hope that the relationship continues to improve. In the spirit of things I won't even heckle certain people's sheep.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 2:09:35 GMT -5
Ronv69 Santa Ana led the internationally recognized government, no real point debating that. The idea that citizens challenged the legitimacy of the government through unsanctioned means i.e. arms makes them insurrectionists, no real point debating that. I imagine the Taliban would see the US intervention in Afghanistan and the regime change that went with it as illegitimate. I can't imagine too many countries would see the intervention of foreign citizens in their internal affairs, including insurrections, a good thing. One might even call such people foreign interventionists. I think the important thing about all this is that US-Mexico relations have evolved well past this argument. It shows the level of deep-seated trust and understanding on both sides with regards to the other. One can only hope that the relationship continues to improve. In the spirit of things I won't even heckle certain people's sheep. Well, they had evolved.... I think we're in the midst of a temporary setback. But I'll say no more on that subject! |
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Post by trailboss on Feb 24, 2018 9:47:36 GMT -5
The thing that sticks out to me when visiting the Alamo is how small it is... The San Antonio Riverwalk is really a nice place to visit, and reciprocity laws respect all, overall Texas is a great state for al lot of reasons.
I am with Davy Crockett.... “You can all go to hell, I am going to Texas” .
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 24, 2018 10:45:07 GMT -5
The thing that sticks out to me when visiting the Alamo is how small it is... The San Antonio Riverwalk is really a nice place to visit, and reciprocity laws respect all, overall Texas is a great state for al lot of reasons. I am with Davy Crockett.... “You can all go to hell, I am going to Texas” . The Shrine is small, but the original area was much larger. Some of the batteries are now under souvenir shops. The city and state plan to clear out a lot of the original area, even closing some streets to make room for more tourists. I believe that the small chapel we were used to better communicated the message. |
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Post by zambini on Feb 24, 2018 10:47:45 GMT -5
The thing that sticks out to me when visiting the Alamo is how small it is... The San Antonio Riverwalk is really a nice place to visit, and reciprocity laws respect all, overall Texas is a great state for al lot of reasons. I am with Davy Crockett.... “You can all go to hell, I am going to Texas” . Don't get me wrong, Crockett was an interesting guy (I heard he even shot a bear when he was only three) but surely the idea of a foreign politician, after proving unable to convince his government to declare war against another country, travelling to said country and taking up arms against it in favor of local insurrectionists must strike you not just as odd but as some sort of criminal action? I do agree that the Riverwalk is a nice day out and Texas is a great state for a lot of reasons. |
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Post by zambini on Feb 24, 2018 10:49:39 GMT -5
The thing that sticks out to me when visiting the Alamo is how small it is... The San Antonio Riverwalk is really a nice place to visit, and reciprocity laws respect all, overall Texas is a great state for al lot of reasons. I am with Davy Crockett.... “You can all go to hell, I am going to Texas” . The Shrine is small, but the original area was much larger. Some of the batteries are now under souvenir shops. The city and state plan to clear out a lot of the original area, even closing some streets to make room for more tourists. I believe that the small chapel we were used to better communicated the message. Yeah, the city could have done a better job initially of site planning. The Alamo really is lost within the scale of the surrounding neighborhood. |
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Post by trailboss on Feb 24, 2018 11:53:21 GMT -5
Amtrak runs directly from Tucson to San Antonio, New Orleans...I wanted to get a sleeper car with the wife to visit my cousins in SA....but of course, no pipe smoking on the train...what would be an ideal way to enjoy the trip is verboten.  ontheworldmap.com/usa/amtrak-system-map-max.jpg |
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The Alamo
Feb 24, 2018 19:18:16 GMT -5
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 24, 2018 19:18:16 GMT -5
Send this to San Felipe by Express night & day
To The People of Texas and All Americans
Commandancy of the Alamo–
Bejar, Fby 24th 1836–
To the People of Texas & all Americans in the world–
Fellow citizens & compatriots– I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna–I have sustained a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man —
The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken — I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls —
I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch —
The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days.
If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country —
Victory or Death
William Barret Travis
Lt. Col. comdt
P.S. The Lord is on our side — When the enemy appeared in sight we had not three bushels of corn — We have since found in deserted houses 80 or 90 bushels & got into the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves —
Travis
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The Alamo
Feb 24, 2018 19:20:27 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Ronv69 on Feb 24, 2018 19:20:27 GMT -5
Ronv69 Santa Ana led the internationally recognized government, no real point debating that. The idea that citizens challenged the legitimacy of the government through unsanctioned means i.e. arms makes them insurrectionists, no real point debating that. I imagine the Taliban would see the US intervention in Afghanistan and the regime change that went with it as illegitimate. I can't imagine too many countries would see the intervention of foreign citizens in their internal affairs, including insurrections, a good thing. One might even call such people foreign interventionists. I think the important thing about all this is that US-Mexico relations have evolved well past this argument. It shows the level of deep-seated trust and understanding on both sides with regards to the other. One can only hope that the relationship continues to improve. In the spirit of things I won't even heckle certain people's sheep. Well, they had evolved.... I think we're in the midst of a temporary setback. But I'll say no more on that subject! Maximilian was an internationally recognized leader of the country. |
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Post by zambini on Feb 24, 2018 19:35:53 GMT -5
Well, they had evolved.... I think we're in the midst of a temporary setback. But I'll say no more on that subject! Maximilian was an internationally recognized leader of the country. Yes, Maximilian was placed as a head of state by Napolean the III's army and recognized by him (foreign interventionism seems like a running theme). Many countries, including the US, continued to recognize the Juarez government which did not go into exile. The constitutional crisis this situation provoked resulted in a protracted war with Maximilian tried, convicted, and shot by the Juarez government at the end. I hope countries learn from our experience. |
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Post by zambini on Feb 24, 2018 19:38:36 GMT -5
Ronv69 I don't know whether Maximilian raised sheep though.
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Post by zambini on Feb 24, 2018 20:50:36 GMT -5
Send this to San Felipe by Express night & day To The People of Texas and All Americans Commandancy of the Alamo– Bejar, Fby 24th 1836– To the People of Texas & all Americans in the world– Fellow citizens & compatriots– I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna–I have sustained a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man — The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken — I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls — I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch — The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country — Victory or Death William Barret Travis Lt. Col. comdt P.S. The Lord is on our side — When the enemy appeared in sight we had not three bushels of corn — We have since found in deserted houses 80 or 90 bushels & got into the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves — Travis Stirring and well written, a shame that the context in which it was written places the sentiment in a very different light. |
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The Alamo
Feb 24, 2018 21:32:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Ronv69 on Feb 24, 2018 21:32:00 GMT -5
Send this to San Felipe by Express night & day To The People of Texas and All Americans Commandancy of the Alamo– Bejar, Fby 24th 1836– To the People of Texas & all Americans in the world– Fellow citizens & compatriots– I am besieged, by a thousand or more of the Mexicans under Santa Anna–I have sustained a continual Bombardment & cannonade for 24 hours & have not lost a man — The enemy has demanded a surrender at discretion, otherwise, the garrison are to be put to the sword, if the fort is taken — I have answered the demand with a cannon shot, & our flag still waves proudly from the walls — I shall never surrender or retreat. Then, I call on you in the name of Liberty, of patriotism & & everything dear to the American character, to come to our aid, with all dispatch — The enemy is receiving reinforcements daily & will no doubt increase to three or four thousand in four or five days. If this call is neglected, I am determined to sustain myself as long as possible & die like a soldier who never forgets what is due to his own honor & that of his country — Victory or Death William Barret Travis Lt. Col. comdt P.S. The Lord is on our side — When the enemy appeared in sight we had not three bushels of corn — We have since found in deserted houses 80 or 90 bushels & got into the walls 20 or 30 head of Beeves — Travis Stirring and well written, a shame that the context in which it was written places the sentiment in a very different light. I think the context places it in the best light possible. |
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Post by zambini on Feb 24, 2018 22:19:50 GMT -5
Stirring and well written, a shame that the context in which it was written places the sentiment in a very different light. I think the context places it in the best light possible. I'd be happy to understand your perspective on the issue. |
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The Alamo
Feb 28, 2018 10:48:26 GMT -5
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 28, 2018 10:48:26 GMT -5
On this day in 1836, 32 Men from Gonzales Texas rode into the Alamo to reinforce the garrison, knowing that they faced almost certain death.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 12:55:04 GMT -5
On this day in 1836, 32 Men from Gonzales Texas rode into the Alamo to reinforce the garrison, knowing that they faced almost certain death. How'd that work out for them? |
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The Alamo
Feb 28, 2018 14:24:01 GMT -5
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 28, 2018 14:24:01 GMT -5
On this day in 1836, 32 Men from Gonzales Texas rode into the Alamo to reinforce the garrison, knowing that they faced almost certain death. How'd that work out for them? I think you will find out in your next life. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 14:36:04 GMT -5
How'd that work out for them? I think you will find out in your next life. So you're saying they were reincarnated, and that 10furlongs will join them in their present incarnations?  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 14:43:30 GMT -5
How'd that work out for them? I think you will find out in your next life. I already know. When I was a 19D Cavalry Scout in the Army and trained to be on point, we carried just enough sh!t to get out of a fight with a bigger dog when we couldn't possibly survive. No harm in fighting smarter instead of harder and living to give resistance another day. The entire die for the cause strategy is vastly over-glorified in American history IMHO. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2018 14:53:54 GMT -5
I think you will find out in your next life. I already know. When I was a 19D Cavalry Scout in the Army and trained to be on point, we carried just enough sh!t to get out of a fight with a bigger dog when we couldn't possibly survive. No harm in fighting smarter instead of harder and living to give resistance another day. The entire die for the cause strategy is vastly over-glorified in American history IMHO. I think you are right in that it is overrated. In this case, history says the holding off of the Mexican Army did help the cause, though. As a tactical plan, it's maybe not the best. |
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Post by cgvt on Feb 28, 2018 14:57:09 GMT -5
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The Alamo
Feb 28, 2018 15:35:56 GMT -5
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Post by Ronv69 on Feb 28, 2018 15:35:56 GMT -5
I think you will find out in your next life. So you're saying they were reincarnated, and that 10furlongs will join them in their present incarnations? I am saying that he will relive the last day of the siege for eternity. I hope that you and CVGT are with him. |
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Post by Matthew on Feb 28, 2018 15:39:44 GMT -5
Brothers,While I admire Ronv69 's historical knowledge and passion, this is a discussion that is quite open to contention.Please remember that we have a international family and where we may agree on the historical facts,the emotional response differs according to ones perspective.In other words,Please keep it light. |
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