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Post by toshtego on Sept 9, 2018 10:28:51 GMT -5
As long as humans dont destroy themselves, electric transportation will become normal in society. Like combustion motors, there are things to work out. Its not truly feasible but look at where its come in twenty years let alone any technology. Today I carry a phone that with my large SD card allows me to have a big library of books, music, photo albums, movies and more. Storage has changed drastically just like battery capacity and how efficient power is transferred. Bottom line, I think we will get there and we are in the baby stage of it now. People of the future will look at us and think "how quaint". Just as we do when looking back at early cars or "the horseless carriage". It is inevitable EVs will replace internal combustion. Electric motors are so much more powerful and efficient. Can you imagine, a motor so powerful that a transmission is not needed? No more oil changes, engine tune-ups, transmission service. Clearly, an owner has to plan for battery replacement but at 100,000 miles or eight years, that can be managed. New generations of batteries will extend that. The charging infrastructure is improving and the EVs will gain "traction" in market share. Hydrogen Fuel Cells are the wild card and that is a parallel development. If I could afford one, it would be now. I would find it very interesting and exciting to be part of the "movement". It has a hobby enthusiast element as of now but that will pass. |
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Post by toshtego on Sept 9, 2018 10:35:20 GMT -5
From what I learned, any road trip is planned around charging stations and that is a limiting factor. Supposedly, the locations are accessible on the car's internet computer. More are added each year and I was surprised to see where some of them are. One of Tesla's selling points is the number of fast charging stations set up. The driver spent 25 to 50 minutes at each one on his trip. Enough time to stretch his legs and maybe get a bite to eat. For the other cars, it might be more complicated. Ah, I forgot a key part of the story, they also had no cell signal and no internet. Still, that does seem pretty convenient if you are the type to really plan out a trip. They really are coming along, tesla is a pretty amazing company. Planning is key so that limits spontaneity which could be a problem for some. I encounter people who ran out of gas on our local highway. Certainly, things improved when gas pumps began accepting cards for after store hours sales. |
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professorthroway
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Post by professorthroway on Sept 9, 2018 11:10:09 GMT -5
Personally I look forward to the day when I don't need my own car anymore. Between bicycling, public transportation and Uber/Lyft we have gone down to being a single car family of four. It is actually saving a ton of money each year as well. It would cost me almost $1000 year to park (at discounted faculty rates) if I drove to work everyday. I can take a lot of bus rides for that money.
Between the development of autonomous vehicles and improved electric vehicles, I am optimistic that it will be in the pretty near future. Imagine being able to simply dial up a quiet, safe, and private vehicle to take you wherever you need to go while you relax and watch the game with a cold beer in your hand.
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Post by toshtego on Sept 9, 2018 13:37:29 GMT -5
This was exciting for me. I did not know anyone who owned an EV or even a Hybrid. This is gasoline and diesel country. New fangled things don't get out here often. So, a new technology kind of breaks up the day.
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 9, 2018 15:12:54 GMT -5
A lot of my concerns have already been voiced. I'm not sure if the environmental savings are much better, considering the amount of coal is being used to generate the electricity. With wind, solar and hydro coming more to the fore that might have already changed. If they could figure out how to use hydrogen safely and generate the hydrogen and oxygen from the 'waste' (which would be water) you'd have a winner. There was a long presentation on hydrogen. I was surprised how far that has come with fueling stations in west texas. Well, hydrogen is a by-product of extracting helium, and as far as I know the bulk of the world's helium comes from Amarillo. So plenty of spare hydrogen. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 9, 2018 15:19:24 GMT -5
I would like to have one of those 1900 era electrics that looked like a Dr Who phone booth and steered with a tiller. Remember, the first cars were electric.
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Post by pepesdad1 on Sept 9, 2018 15:34:20 GMT -5
"I will never, never be without a truck"...me too Oldcajun123.
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 9, 2018 15:34:25 GMT -5
There was a long presentation on hydrogen. I was surprised how far that has come with fueling stations in west texas. Well, hydrogen is a by-product of extracting helium, and as far as I know the bulk of the world's helium comes from Amarillo. So plenty of spare hydrogen. You can also generate it from water, but it takes a lot of energy. If they can catalyse that though, you've almost got perpetual fuel. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 15:41:38 GMT -5
Methane - I could just run a hose from Bully's butt to the carb
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Post by Dramatwist on Sept 9, 2018 15:46:48 GMT -5
Methane - I could just run a hose from Bully's butt to the carb  |
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 9, 2018 15:58:53 GMT -5
Well, hydrogen is a by-product of extracting helium, and as far as I know the bulk of the world's helium comes from Amarillo. So plenty of spare hydrogen. You can also generate it from water, but it takes a lot of energy. If they can catalyse that though, you've almost got perpetual fuel. The West Texas hydrogen production is covered by the cost of producing the helium, which is very valuable. This makes the hydrogen free. Can't get cheaper than that. |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 9, 2018 16:47:02 GMT -5
You can also generate it from water, but it takes a lot of energy. If they can catalyse that though, you've almost got perpetual fuel. The West Texas hydrogen production is covered by the cost of producing the helium, which is very valuable. This makes the hydrogen free. Can't get cheaper than that. Indeed you can't. And you know if you've got a leak at the helium plant... Everyone speaks high pitched. |
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Post by toshtego on Sept 9, 2018 20:43:58 GMT -5
You can also generate it from water, but it takes a lot of energy. If they can catalyse that though, you've almost got perpetual fuel. The West Texas hydrogen production is covered by the cost of producing the helium, which is very valuable. This makes the hydrogen free. Can't get cheaper than that. The hydrogen promoter at this event was from Lubbock, which, for those unfamiliar with West Texas, is just down the road from Amarillo. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 9, 2018 20:56:28 GMT -5
The West Texas hydrogen production is covered by the cost of producing the helium, which is very valuable. This makes the hydrogen free. Can't get cheaper than that. Indeed you can't. And you know if you've got a leak at the helium plant... Everyone speaks high pitched. True, but if I become aware of a nearby hydrogen leak, I think my scream will be pretty shrill too. I think that hydrogen powered cars would be a bad idea for any kind of smoking. |
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Post by toshtego on Sept 9, 2018 22:26:28 GMT -5
Indeed you can't. And you know if you've got a leak at the helium plant... Everyone speaks high pitched. True, but if I become aware of a nearby hydrogen leak, I think my scream will be pretty shrill too. I think that hydrogen powered cars would be a bad idea for any kind of smoking. As I understand and I am no expert, hydrogen is stored in liquid or near liquid state under pressure. Unless copious amounts of oxygen is added, it is safe enough. Our favorite hydrogen disaster, The Hindenburg, was in a gaseous state and unstable. This is similar to LPG and Hank Hill has assured us that is safe enough. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 9, 2018 22:36:50 GMT -5
True, but if I become aware of a nearby hydrogen leak, I think my scream will be pretty shrill too. I think that hydrogen powered cars would be a bad idea for any kind of smoking. As I understand and I am no expert, hydrogen is stored in liquid or near liquid state under pressure. Unless copious amounts of oxygen is added, it is safe enough. Our favorite hydrogen disaster, The Hindenburg, was in a gaseous state and unstable. This is similar to LPG and Hank Hill has assured us that is safe enough. Well, if Hank says so. |
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Post by bonanzadriver on Sept 9, 2018 22:42:36 GMT -5
Having spent most of my adult life in the automobile industry, I've had a keen interest in electric cars since about the time Musk and his team brought their first roadster to market. Like many others in the industry, I initially scoffed at the idea of driving a car full of laptop batteries up and down the road. Like many others, I have since become a convert. Don't get me wrong, my motives are not altruistic at all. I don't subscribe to the "saving the planet" agenda. I do, however, like the real world advantages of owning a car that costs 75% to 90% less per mile to drive than a gasoline car. I like the potential of greatly reduced maintenance requirements, being that most electric cars only have around 20 moving parts vs 2,000 on their I.C.E. counterparts. I also like the predictions that the electric vehicle will sooner than later be much less expensive to buy than gasoline cars. And finally, I love the performance of these things! Having driven every model of Tesla produced so far, I have to tell you that the performance of these cars is almost indescribable. They blow away any gasoline powered car I've ever driven. This guy has been making very accurate predictions for almost 10 years now... tonyseba.com/As I was discussing with a fellow patcher the other night, I'll probably own a Tesla by 2020. By that time the prices will be more reasonable and I'll have the kids out of college. ;-) |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 22:45:10 GMT -5
Yes, liquid only because it is very cold in minus degrees and at that temp it changes from a gas to a liquid.
But, if there's a leak its mixing with air then and becoming a gas. This is why tanker drivers of this stuff have to cone off a wide area so as not to let vehicles or anybody in the area when loading or off loading and ONLY use brass wrenches so as not to create even a small spark.
Never had the guts to pull those, I kept to liquid and dry sugar and cola syrup. Hauled Naphtha for awhile but, its a liquid, no gases for me sir.
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 10, 2018 3:18:55 GMT -5
20 moving parts compared to 2000 - I never knew that! That certainly IS a bonus.
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Post by bonanzadriver on Sept 10, 2018 8:35:34 GMT -5
20 moving parts compared to 2000 - I never knew that! That certainly IS a bonus. Paddy, If you get a chance to watch any of the Tony Seba videos, you'll see that EV owners are experiencing maintenance and upkeep bills that are 50% to 70% cheaper than I.C.E. cars and that they are $65% to 90% cheaper per mile (cost of fuel/electricity) to drive. Add to this the fact that they are expected to last 2 to 3 times longer (less parts to wear out) you're talking about the automobile trifecta. Now, if we could just see that damned $35,000 Model 3 sooner than later! ;-) |
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Post by Legend Lover on Sept 10, 2018 12:46:02 GMT -5
20 moving parts compared to 2000 - I never knew that! That certainly IS a bonus. Paddy, If you get a chance to watch any of the Tony Seba videos, you'll see that EV owners are experiencing maintenance and upkeep bills that are 50% to 70% cheaper than I.C.E. cars and that they are $65% to 90% cheaper per mile (cost of fuel/electricity) to drive. Add to this the fact that they are expected to last 2 to 3 times longer (less parts to wear out) you're talking about the automobile trifecta. Now, if we could just see that damned $35,000 Model 3 sooner than later! ;-) I honestly was ignorant to that fact. That's impressive. I wonder what that will do to the mechanics of the world? |
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Post by monbla256 on Sept 10, 2018 15:24:54 GMT -5
I'm waiting for them to get developed so the bunny with the drum will power them !  |
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arturo7
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Post by arturo7 on Sept 10, 2018 20:23:02 GMT -5
As mentioned a few times in this thread, electric vehicles are not an environmental panacea. The batteries, which have a very limited lifespan, use lithium. Lithium is very nasty stuff and one of the worst things you can put in a landfill.
What makes no sense to me is someone buying a EV to use as a second car for commuting. Seriously? Using an entire car to save a few gallons of gas each week? Consume double the amount of resources for the same amount of driving? It boggles the mind.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Sept 10, 2018 22:55:30 GMT -5
As for the environment, that electricity comes from somewhere, so most of the electric cars are ultimately coal powered if you think about it.
Well, yeah, the "glass half empty" is that the car is 30% coal-powered.
The "glass half full" view is that the car is 70% powered by things that are not coal, and 37% powered by clean energy.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Sept 10, 2018 23:00:59 GMT -5
As mentioned a few times in this thread, electric vehicles are not an environmental panacea. The batteries, which have a very limited lifespan, use lithium. Lithium is very nasty stuff and one of the worst things you can put in a landfill. Lithium batteries aren't recyclable right now, but that doesn't mean they never will be. Lead-acid batteries have a huge recycling supply chain built up because we use millions of them every year. Over 99% of the lead used in new batteries comes from old batteries. It's the closest thing there is to a closed loop in consumer products. In a world where we use hundreds of thousands of tons of lithium-ion batteries a year, there will be a lot of incentive to pursue recycling. What makes no sense to me is someone buying a EV to use as a second car for commuting. Seriously? Using an entire car to save a few gallons of gas each week? Consume double the amount of resources for the same amount of driving? It boggles the mind. I didn't mean an additional car. I was suggesting that a two car family might go from two gasoline cars to one gasoline and one electric. In that scenario, the limitations of the EV don't matter because you still have a gas-burner as a backup. (long distance trips and so on) I'm not sure owning an EV as your only vehicle makes much sense, unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money on occasional car rentals for those corner cases. |
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cubish
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Post by cubish on Sept 10, 2018 23:11:16 GMT -5
If and when it's practical, or even perhaps affordable, I may look at an electric vehicle. But until that day. I pass. It's not cars and trucks causing excessive pollution. It's the lack of enforcement of people putting chips in thier diesel vehicles to billow unburnt diesal, and people running straight headers, and people removing thier catalidic converters to make the car more efficient hatt are the problems with gasburners.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Sept 10, 2018 23:13:19 GMT -5
If and when it's practical, or even perhaps affordable, I may look at an electric vehicle. But until that day. I pass. It's not cars and trucks causing excessive pollution. It's the lack of enforcement of people putting chips in thier diesel vehicles to billow unburnt diesal, and people running straight headers, and people removing thier catalidic converters to make the car more efficient hatt are the problems with gasburners. It's true, gasoline powered cars are extremely clean in this day and age. But they still emit huge amounts of CO2, and create demand for oil imports.
Electric cars could make the U.S. into a net oil exporter again.
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 11, 2018 0:01:08 GMT -5
Yes, liquid only because it is very cold in minus degrees and at that temp it changes from a gas to a liquid. But, if there's a leak its mixing with air then and becoming a gas. This is why tanker drivers of this stuff have to cone off a wide area so as not to let vehicles or anybody in the area when loading or off loading and ONLY use brass wrenches so as not to create even a small spark. Never had the guts to pull those, I kept to liquid and dry sugar and cola syrup. Hauled Naphtha for awhile but, its a liquid, no gases for me sir. When I was in the payroll business one of our clients was a gasoline distributor. I saw that their Workman's Compensation insurance was 2x their hourly price pay rate. That should discourage more people. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Sept 11, 2018 0:09:52 GMT -5
Having spent most of my adult life in the automobile industry, I've had a keen interest in electric cars since about the time Musk and his team brought their first roadster to market. Like many others in the industry, I initially scoffed at the idea of driving a car full of laptop batteries up and down the road. Like many others, I have since become a convert. Don't get me wrong, my motives are not altruistic at all. I don't subscribe to the "saving the planet" agenda. I do, however, like the real world advantages of owning a car that costs 75% to 90% less per mile to drive than a gasoline car. I like the potential of greatly reduced maintenance requirements, being that most electric cars only have around 20 moving parts vs 2,000 on their I.C.E. counterparts. I also like the predictions that the electric vehicle will sooner than later be much less expensive to buy than gasoline cars. And finally, I love the performance of these things! Having driven every model of Tesla produced so far, I have to tell you that the performance of these cars is almost indescribable. They blow away any gasoline powered car I've ever driven. This guy has been making very accurate predictions for almost 10 years now... tonyseba.com/As I was discussing with a fellow patcher the other night, I'll probably own a Tesla by 2020. By that time the prices will be more reasonable and I'll have the kids out of college. ;-) I see Tony Seba promoting himself all over the place, but I don't have any reason to believe that he is a visionary. |
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Post by bonanzadriver on Sept 17, 2018 13:52:27 GMT -5
Having spent most of my adult life in the automobile industry, I've had a keen interest in electric cars since about the time Musk and his team brought their first roadster to market. Like many others in the industry, I initially scoffed at the idea of driving a car full of laptop batteries up and down the road. Like many others, I have since become a convert. Don't get me wrong, my motives are not altruistic at all. I don't subscribe to the "saving the planet" agenda. I do, however, like the real world advantages of owning a car that costs 75% to 90% less per mile to drive than a gasoline car. I like the potential of greatly reduced maintenance requirements, being that most electric cars only have around 20 moving parts vs 2,000 on their I.C.E. counterparts. I also like the predictions that the electric vehicle will sooner than later be much less expensive to buy than gasoline cars. And finally, I love the performance of these things! Having driven every model of Tesla produced so far, I have to tell you that the performance of these cars is almost indescribable. They blow away any gasoline powered car I've ever driven. This guy has been making very accurate predictions for almost 10 years now... tonyseba.com/As I was discussing with a fellow patcher the other night, I'll probably own a Tesla by 2020. By that time the prices will be more reasonable and I'll have the kids out of college. ;-) I see Tony Seba promoting himself all over the place, but I don't have any reason to believe that he is a visionary. Ok Ron, not everyone sees things through the same paradigm filter. As I've posted here on this forum before, I don't buy into the UN IPCC hysteria. (don't have much use for the UN at all really) Anyway, my motivations are mostly driven by my thriftiness, interest in useful technology & Pollution (not CO2) reduction. I am quite intrigued by opportunity of building my next house as a Zero net Energy + house. Producing all the electric energy I need, free hot water and a storage system, like a Tesla Wall, to power through the night and the ability to charge electric vehicles (with over 300 mile ranges) all essentially free. The prospects of living without a utility bill or gas station bill is something I very much look forward to, especially being that I'm 55 now and will be retiring in the next 10 years or so. |
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