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Post by puffy on Aug 14, 2019 15:57:03 GMT -5
My neighbor came to see me this morning..He comes almost every morning..The doctor had just told him that his triglycerides are way too high..He has to give up fats especially the sausage and bacon that he eats every morning or clog up his arteries..Then he asked me if he should just eat what he wants until he has the big one..All I could say is..It's your choice..I hope he listens to the doc.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 14, 2019 16:12:52 GMT -5
Triglycerides are hard to figure. They have more to do with genetics than diet. So, what do you eat to lower your triglycerides and not raise your bloody sugar or suffer malnutrition in some other area. Mine shot up in one test and fell in next. I have to eat something.
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Post by Legend Lover on Aug 14, 2019 17:00:37 GMT -5
If it's not one thing it's something else.
I hope he manages to get them down rather than self destruct.
What if 'the big one' isn't as big as he'd hoped but is big enough to incapacitate?
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Post by mgtarheel on Aug 14, 2019 17:00:37 GMT -5
Tell him to look at turkey sausage.
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Post by Wolfman on Aug 14, 2019 17:05:05 GMT -5
Mine were alarmingly high three years ago. My doctor put me on one of those cholesterol medications and it significantly reduced them after a few months.
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Post by LSUTigersFan on Aug 14, 2019 18:12:12 GMT -5
Keto. I have been on keto/generally low carb for two years. My triglycerides keep dropping to lower levels everything I get tested, and I eat a LOT of red meat and a LOT of butter. Maybe he should give it a try.
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Post by kbareit on Aug 14, 2019 18:43:59 GMT -5
I had mine checked several years ago and was at 500 normal is around 100 according to my doc. He told me the cause was food fried in vegetable oil. I used to eat at a lot of fast food places for lunch then. I now have near normal numbers by cutting down on the fast food but my cholesteral is up now and have to take medication for that.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 14, 2019 18:54:11 GMT -5
I have a blood test in the morning. I normally eat healthy-ish, but of course today I had a hot link for lunch, and Chinese food for dinner. Moo Goo Guy Pan isn't bad, but 3 cheese crab, an egg roll and some of those crispy chips in my egg drop soup and I am sure to hear about it from the doctor.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 19:07:10 GMT -5
That's all American food expect for the soup but have no fear the levels of MSG will preserve you for years.
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elric
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Post by elric on Aug 14, 2019 19:32:32 GMT -5
I had mine checked several years ago and was at 500 normal is around 100 according to my doc. He told me the cause was food fried in vegetable oil. I used to eat at a lot of fast food places for lunch then. I now have near normal numbers by cutting down on the fast food but my cholesteral is up now and have to take medication for that. Your doctor is absolutely correct. Not many know that. To be more specific; cold-pressed veg oils are absolutely fine. Veg oils such as canola and sunflower however, are not. High heat and chemicals are used in the extraction process. Heat makes oils rancid so they have to add chemicals to remove the smell. It looks disgusting so they add more chems to clean it up. Margarine is even worse. I've been a strict vegetarian for over 25 years. If however, I was stuck in a remote place where I had the choice between animal lard or canola/sunflower oil, I'd choose the lard. Given the choice between margarine or nothing I'd choose nothing. Animal fats are NATURAL. Even rats and cockroaches do not recognise margarine as a food.
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elric
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Post by elric on Aug 14, 2019 19:48:50 GMT -5
My neighbor came to see me this morning..He comes almost every morning..The doctor had just told him that his triglycerides are way too high..He has to give up fats especially the sausage and bacon that he eats every morning or clog up his arteries..Then he asked me if he should just eat what he wants until he has the big one..All I could say is..It's your choice..I hope he listens to the doc. To add to my above post ^^^ There's nothing wrong with natural animal fat in moderation. It's about balance. I'd advise your neighbour to continue to eat his sausage and bacon, but to replace a rasher or snag with a fried tomato [or raw] or a few mushrooms and/or baked beans and a slice of toast or two. Or add some left-over mashed potato. Medical science is absolutely brilliant at repairing mangled bodies but is seriously lacking in the area of disease. I remember when the health 'authorities' declared cholesterol as a killer. I called bullshit. Several years later they changed their minds and declared that there's 'good cholesterol and bad cholesterol'. If that is true, the 'bad' cholesterol comes from the margarines and canola/sunflower oils that they say is the healthy choice. Absolute nonsense. They declared eggs as unhealthy [the egg yolk] Again, I called bullshit. An egg is a whole food. Now the merkins have changed their minds on eggs. They're not so bad after all. I've met far too many 90+yo ex-dairy farmers who lived on fresh cream and who ate a hearty breakfast that typically included sausages, bacon and eggs. None that I was aware, had any heart problems.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 14, 2019 19:53:27 GMT -5
We have given up almost all fried foods. Bake oven fries, no more Popeyes or KFC. Grilled or blackened seafood. Steamed vegetables, fresh salads etc.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2019 21:18:59 GMT -5
About the same at our house except for every now again. I think the best thing you can do is stay away from fast food the proof will be in the lab work. If you do fast food skip the fries. The South Beach Diet works well a Mederteranian diet the original book gives the recipes and can be found used at thrift stores. The newer books want you to buy the frozen products.
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Post by Stearmandriver on Aug 15, 2019 3:41:52 GMT -5
For my two cents, I'd advise your neighbor to listen to his physician before advice from some random guys on the internet. That's partly tongue in cheek, but partly not. Physicians are not only highly educated and up to date on the latest knowledge of these conditions (at least they should be), they're more experienced than any of us. We trade stories about a friend, relative or neighbor we know who had high cholesterol... but a physician treats dozens or hundreds of patients a year with it. Their experience is far more relevant than ours, because their dataset is far larger. None of us on a pipe forum are authorities on health issues .
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elric
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Post by elric on Aug 15, 2019 7:27:13 GMT -5
For my two cents, I'd advise your neighbor to listen to his physician before advice from some random guys on the internet. That's partly tongue in cheek, but partly not. Physicians are not only highly educated and up to date on the latest knowledge of these conditions (at least they should be), they're more experienced than any of us. We trade stories about a friend, relative or neighbor we know who had high cholesterol... but a physician treats dozens or hundreds of patients a year with it. Their experience is far more relevant than ours, because their dataset is far larger. None of us on a pipe forum are authorities on health issues . Even when they keep changing their minds on a subject? And when evidence proves them wrong? Sunflower and canola oils and margarine are a direct cause of hardening of the arteries and the modern diabetes epidemic, yet health 'authorities' still recommend them as the healthy option. The artificial sweetener that goes by the brand -name Nutrasweet is a known toxin yet health authorities recommend it as a healthy option. Just two examples that show their ignorance regarding the many causes of disease in an increasingly unhealthy population. People have a choice between taking responsibility for their own health and do their own research, or, one can choose to be a mindless sheep and accept the nonsense offered by the so-called experts as gospel. Like the blind leading the blind.
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briarbuck
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Post by briarbuck on Aug 15, 2019 8:20:21 GMT -5
Doctors, for the most part, know very little about nutrition. I wouldn't be taking diet advise from an MD.
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Post by jitterbugdude on Aug 15, 2019 10:14:06 GMT -5
Doctors, for the most part, know very little about nutrition. I wouldn't be taking diet advise from an MD. Yup.. Doctors are clueless about nutrition. Sounds like your neighbor's doctor is trying to kill him. High triglycerides are due to excess carbs... FACT.
Doctor's often think like second graders... If Triglycerides are made up of fat (ok.. technically 3 glycerine molecules combined) then fat in the diet must be the cause.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 15, 2019 10:36:17 GMT -5
Doctors are still pushing statins for Pete's sake! They have been proven to be ineffective in all but a few of the worst cases, and they cause far more harm than good. This has been proven in many studies. In a study of 10,000 patients that had already had a heart attack, the average life extension is less than 2 days. For this millions of people pay thousands of dollars and suffer muscle and joint pain, mental confusion and a list of other side effects. Every process in body relies on cholesterol and cholesterol precursors. The statins disrupt that whole process. They prescribe beta blockers and ignore the cognitive side effects. People are diagnosed with senile dementia every day when they are really over medicated. I go to the best doctors in the Houston area, and I keep them on their toes. If they can't keep up I will go to another doctor. I have suffered years of pain and hundreds of thousands of dollars because of doctors who just follow the drug companies claims. Doctors are so bogged down in paperwork and heavy case loads that they rarely have time to read the latest studies and the stuff they teach in medical school is years out of date. My primary care physician always asks me if I have any articles I think he should read and then we discuss it at my next appointment. I feel sorry for anyone who blindly do whatever their doctor says and never question if it's the right thing for them. G-d isn't spelled MD. I have a higher IQ than most of the doctors out there and I can study the same books they can. I can't do surgery on myself unfortunately, but I have doctors who I trust that I have known for decades to take care of that. All of my ancestors who didn't smoke cigarettes and weren't killed by accident or war lived into their late 80s and many into their late 90's. We eat a modified Mediterranean diet, but with more meat. We splurge sometimes, but otherwise what are we living for. If you're afraid to die you some introspection to find out why Wife and I are almost guaranteed our 3 score and 10 unless I get the motorcycle running soon, otherwise all bets are off. Either way looking forward meeting my Lord and will get there sooner or later. YMMV πππ€
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 10:43:05 GMT -5
Agree
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 15, 2019 10:49:48 GMT -5
I'll mark the calendar in red. "Sean was agreeable on this day". πππππ€
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Post by Legend Lover on Aug 15, 2019 11:03:32 GMT -5
For my two cents, I'd advise your neighbor to listen to his physician before advice from some random guys on the internet. That's partly tongue in cheek, but partly not. Physicians are not only highly educated and up to date on the latest knowledge of these conditions (at least they should be), they're more experienced than any of us. We trade stories about a friend, relative or neighbor we know who had high cholesterol... but a physician treats dozens or hundreds of patients a year with it. Their experience is far more relevant than ours, because their dataset is far larger. None of us on a pipe forum are authorities on health issues . Very wise words.
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Post by Stearmandriver on Aug 15, 2019 15:14:59 GMT -5
I have a higher IQ than most of the doctors out there and I can study the same books they can. And this is my point. You can read the same studies, but unless you've spent 8 years of your life in full-time study of the background knowledge necessary to understand the literature, and have first-hand experience treating hundreds of people with the condition, you are not in any way equally equipped to properly interpret the literature. People tend to over-simplify and cherry-pick when it comes to medical knowledge, and it strikes me that part of the reason is because they have trouble acknowledging that a full-time professional in a field knows more about it than they do, after reading a few books and putting in a few hours at google U. They delight in "catching" the doctors being wrong, even though in most cases it turns out not to be the doctors who are mistaken. Sure, doctors have made mistakes, human error is inevitable. But it is inarguably true that, on any given issue, accepted modern medical science has a far greater statistical likelihood of being correct than a random guy on the internet. Thus my suggestion that the man listen to his doctor before us.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 15, 2019 15:34:19 GMT -5
I have a higher IQ than most of the doctors out there and I can study the same books they can. And this is my point. You can read the same studies, but unless you've spent 8 years of your life in full-time study of the background knowledge necessary to understand the literature, and have first-hand experience treating hundreds of people with the condition, you are not in any way equally equipped to properly interpret the literature. People tend to over-simplify and cherry-pick when it comes to medical knowledge, and it strikes me that part of the reason is because they have trouble acknowledging that a full-time professional in a field knows more about it than they do, after reading a few books and putting in a few hours at google U. They delight in "catching" the doctors being wrong, even though in most cases it turns out not to be the doctors who are mistaken. Sure, doctors have made mistakes, human error is inevitable. But it is inarguably true that, on any given issue, accepted modern medical science has a far greater statistical likelihood of being correct than a random guy on the internet. Thus my suggestion that the man listen to his doctor before us. You're entitled to your opinion. My experience tells a different story.
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jitterbugdude
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Post by jitterbugdude on Aug 15, 2019 16:03:54 GMT -5
. And this is my point. You can read the same studies, but unless you've spent 8 years of your life in full-time study of the background knowledge necessary to understand the literature, and have first-hand experience treating hundre" You're entitled to your opinion. My experience tells a different story. I have spent 35 years reading medical journals in my quest for the best health I can achieve. I have taught myself along the way to look at studies for statistical significance, to look at the statistical model used, to look for confounding factors that were not considered and to almost never accept a meta-analysis because the data is always cherry picked. I have come to the conclusion that doctor's are morons when attempting to treat heart disease. Doctors don't read studies! You are very naive if you think your doctor reads medical journals in his spare time. Doctors get their Health information from their drug dealers that show up once or twice a week to supply them with the new wonder drug. Treating "...hundreds of people with the condition, you are not in any way equally equipped to properly interpret the literature." This is a meaningless statement. To mean something, a doctor would have to treat hundreds of people SUCCESSFULLY. This is not the case with doctors and heart disease. In 50% of heart attacks the patients had normal cholesterol. That should tell any simpleton that cholesterol is not a risk factor for heart disease yet cholesterol medications are a multi-billion dollar industry. It is very difficult for the average layman to understand cardiovascular disease for the very reasons pointed out by Stearmandriver.. people do not have the education level to decipher all of the gobbledygook that is on the internet nor to fully understand a medical journal study. The best indicator of heart disease is LDL-Particle number. Do not confuse this with the typical LDL-C that most doctors test for. There are other important blood markers too such as Lp(a), C-Reactive Protein. Keep in mind too that typically 10-20 years go by before research in the lab makes it into mainstream medicine.
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Post by Ronv69 on Aug 15, 2019 17:08:42 GMT -5
Agreed πΊπΊπΊπππ€
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Post by Stearmandriver on Aug 15, 2019 17:15:38 GMT -5
All I can say is, you guys seem not to know many doctors on a personal level, or much about research or clinical medicine. This idea that (ethical) physicians do not keep abreast of the latest literature is, well... bizarre. I don't know where it comes from or why it's perpetuated; my only guess is that for some reason, people have trouble trusting that a full time professional in a field knows more about it than them. I've never understood this position, and I would guess that those same people would find it ridiculous if someone read a couple books about their profession and then proceeded to try to tell them "you're doing it wrong", ignoring the years of experience that you've accumulated doing it full time.
The data is quite clear: modern medicine almost ALWAYS has a much higher success rate than either "alternative" treatment or non-treatment, whatever condition we're talking about. Sure it's not perfect and never will be and how could it be? I don't think any of us think immortality is possible lol.
I have no problem with an individual choosing to risk their health on any type of treatment or non-treatment that they want to, but the problem with giving advice to ignore modern medicine, when the advice giver isn't someone who truly understands modern medicine (ie a physician or researcher), is that an observer can get a skewed picture of how legitimate this advice is.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 17:32:14 GMT -5
A well informed patient is a asset to a doctor. I have more stuff wrong with me than Cater has liver pills. It is the duty of every patient to be informed and seek a second opinion in important health matters. Finding a good doctor who is more concerned about caring for his/her patients instead pushing pills and calling next. My family doctor calls me and will also come to see me if I am hospitalized. Does Yours?
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Post by pepesdad1 on Aug 15, 2019 17:37:53 GMT -5
Doctors are still pushing statins for Pete's sake! They have been proven to be ineffective in all but a few of the worst cases, and they cause far more harm than good. This has been proven in many studies. In a study of 10,000 patients that had already had a heart attack, the average life extension is less than 2 days. For this millions of people pay thousands of dollars and suffer muscle and joint pain, mental confusion and a list of other side effects. Every process in body relies on cholesterol and cholesterol precursors. The statins disrupt that whole process. They prescribe beta blockers and ignore the cognitive side effects. People are diagnosed with senile dementia every day when they are really over medicated. I go to the best doctors in the Houston area, and I keep them on their toes. If they can't keep up I will go to another doctor. I have suffered years of pain and hundreds of thousands of dollars because of doctors who just follow the drug companies claims. Doctors are so bogged down in paperwork and heavy case loads that they rarely have time to read the latest studies and the stuff they teach in medical school is years out of date.My primary care physician always asks me if I have any articles I think he should read and then we discuss it at my next appointment. I feel sorry for anyone who blindly do whatever their doctor says and never question if it's the right thing for them. G-d isn't spelled MD. I have a higher IQ than most of the doctors out there and I can study the same books they can. I can't do surgery on myself unfortunately, but I have doctors who I trust that I have known for decades to take care of that. All of my ancestors who didn't smoke cigarettes and weren't killed by accident or war lived into their late 80s and many into their late 90's. We eat a modified Mediterranean diet, but with more meat. We splurge sometimes, but otherwise what are we living for. If you're afraid to die you some introspection to find out why Wife and I are almost guaranteed our 3 score and 10 unless I get the motorcycle running soon, otherwise all bets are off. Either way looking forward meeting my Lord and will get there sooner or later. YMMV πππ€ This is why, when my primary care physician decided to go to a concierge type of medicine where he has a limited number of patients and has the time to actually listen to my issues, and then has the time to explain it to me in plain English so that I understand why he is doing what he is doing with regard to my medical condition...fortunately I'm in really good condition considering my age and with my issues. My blood test results are excellent and he says I could very easily reach my 90's as my parents did. Not sure I want to reach my 90's considering the way the world is going.Sean, to me, is absolutely right, an informed patient is critical to getting the best health care possible.
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Post by Stearmandriver on Aug 15, 2019 19:21:44 GMT -5
Oh no disagreement there at all, an informed patient is an asset to a physician. I think the problem comes in when the patient thinks he's MORE informed than the physician, after a few hours of hard googling .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2019 20:03:49 GMT -5
I never took it the wrong way and know what you talking about. I can assure you I am not as smart as any of my doctors.
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