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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 12:47:29 GMT -5
Came across this article and it seem fitting to add to the topic
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Dec 24, 2018 14:09:14 GMT -5
It sure is. But I'd love to see the figures from 2004 to as recent as are available.
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Post by monbla256 on Dec 24, 2018 14:22:00 GMT -5
Came across this article and it seem fitting to add to the topic
Having been a pipe smoker since the '60s I feel that all said in that article is true. in a month of going out around town, I may see 1 other pipe smoker every other month or so. Look at the number of B&Ms that have closed or become walk-in cigar humidors! We're a dying breed !
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 14:59:11 GMT -5
+100^^^^^^^^^^^!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2018 15:30:37 GMT -5
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Post by bigwoolie on Dec 24, 2018 16:00:50 GMT -5
This is how we raise 'em...
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Post by McWiggins on Dec 24, 2018 18:32:07 GMT -5
I think its hard to really tell. As a pipe smoker in my 30's, the only time I've smoked away from home was on vacation while deep in the woods sitting along side a mountain stream.
With that said, I know of a few people that smoke cigars at time but never in public. Its like society has forced it to be hidden.
So my thinking is that its hard to say where the pipe market is going. My generation does more shopping online and without knowing their sales figures its hard to say... maybe.
Honestly, its more government wiping it out and no matter what kind of "underground" there is to come, they will eventually kill it by regulations and taxes.
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mel64us
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Post by mel64us on Jan 21, 2019 22:17:27 GMT -5
I remember that in the 1970s, I was in the Army and served with a lot of pipe smokers during my 8 1/2 years of service. In my last unit, NCO meetings with the First Sergeant were foggy with pipe smoke. One SSG smoking a white briar with a mix of Cherry Blend and Mixture 79. Another smoking a cob with Prince Albert. Still another with one pipe or another from his collection smoking Borkum Riff Bourbon. I smoked a prince shape with Amphora. A few other pipesters among enlisted and officers. There doesn't seem to be as many people enjoying this hobby since the " tobacco nazis" have become so vocal.
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Post by qmechanics on Jan 21, 2019 22:28:32 GMT -5
Did anyone read the preceding posts? It covers much of what is stated above with a few references. An interesting, though unscientific, poll was done here on the forum: thebriarpatchforum.com/thread/3088/decade-begin-smoking-pipeNow I am not saying it is significant just interesting. Another recent briar patch thread on new pipe smokers: thebriarpatchforum.com/thread/4542/noobie-smokersPS By resurgence I do not believe pipe smoking will/has return/returned to what it was 40-50+ years ago. Just that maybe we are seeing an increase in pipe smokers lately. Lets not forget the allure that many new blends ( I believe this is a response to market demand and other interplaying factors (boost in internet sales, larger retailers size determined discounts, fewer B&Ms, inventive/inspired blenders, exposure etc surely play role) and started before the FDA decided to butt in.), boutique pipes, retro culture, counter culture, exploring new hobbies. Youtube & forums and forbidden fruit etc 😀 might have on others. If this is so, will the FDA and other government limitations prove to stifle such activities? I suppose that is another question to be determined in the future. However if one were to make a prediction, I can see why some might state as blends and pipes come under further scrutiny and disappear/become more expensive, some of the shine will follow.
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Post by AJ on Jan 21, 2019 23:13:26 GMT -5
I believe that buying and selling tobacco on the Internet will be severely restricted by the FDA within the next five years and I look for the USPS to refuse accepting packages containing any tobacco within the same time period. That said, I predict when this older generation dies out, during the next 20 years, it will mark the end of pipe smoking. Not much evidence that supports pipe smoking is on the rise, but even if it is, obtaining tobacco is going to be almost impossible and very expensive.
AJ
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 22, 2019 9:25:41 GMT -5
I believe that buying and selling tobacco on the Internet will be severely restricted by the FDA within the next five years and I look for the USPS to refuse accepting packages containing any tobacco within the same time period. That said, I predict when this older generation dies out, during the next 20 years, it will mark the end of pipe smoking. Not much evidence that supports pipe smoking is on the rise, but even if it is, obtaining tobacco is going to be almost impossible and very expensive. AJ Maybe I've asked this before, but can someone tell me why the FDA has jurisdiction over Internet sales? I would have thought that they are only interested in what is consumed... I.e. That the tobacco or toppings are processed i in the right way for human 'consumption'. The sale of products (or banning of sales) shouldn't be their concern, should it?
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Post by AJ on Jan 22, 2019 11:28:28 GMT -5
I believe that buying and selling tobacco on the Internet will be severely restricted by the FDA within the next five years and I look for the USPS to refuse accepting packages containing any tobacco within the same time period. That said, I predict when this older generation dies out, during the next 20 years, it will mark the end of pipe smoking. Not much evidence that supports pipe smoking is on the rise, but even if it is, obtaining tobacco is going to be almost impossible and very expensive. AJ Maybe I've asked this before, but can someone tell me why the FDA has jurisdiction over Internet sales? I would have thought that they are only interested in what is consumed... I.e. That the tobacco or toppings are processed i in the right way for human 'consumption'. The sale of products (or banning of sales) shouldn't be their concern, should it? I copied this from The FDA web site. They had the internet selling of smokeless tobacco prohibited in the USA. AJ Regulations
Under the Tobacco Control Act, FDA has broad authority to regulate the sale and marketing of tobacco products to improve public health, and protect children and adolescents from the harms of tobacco use. Retailers can play an important role by complying with federal regulations on the sale, distribution, and marketing of tobacco products. Read a summary of the federal rules for tobacco retailers.
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Post by puffy on Jan 22, 2019 11:54:41 GMT -5
I guess they could say that since Tobacco is considered to be addictive it could be treated as a controlled substance.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Jan 22, 2019 12:23:20 GMT -5
I believe that buying and selling tobacco on the Internet will be severely restricted by the FDA within the next five years and I look for the USPS to refuse accepting packages containing any tobacco within the same time period. That said, I predict when this older generation dies out, during the next 20 years, it will mark the end of pipe smoking. Not much evidence that supports pipe smoking is on the rise, but even if it is, obtaining tobacco is going to be almost impossible and very expensive. AJ Maybe I've asked this before, but can someone tell me why the FDA has jurisdiction over Internet sales? I would have thought that they are only interested in what is consumed... I.e. That the tobacco or toppings are processed i in the right way for human 'consumption'. The sale of products (or banning of sales) shouldn't be their concern, should it? This stuff may seem crazy, but remember the context: tobacco products in America have had no regulation whatsoever, none, since the dawn of consumer products legislation. Tobacco was consciously exempted from every food, drug, and consumer products bill for quite literally one hundred years. The 2009 bill assigns massive responsibilities to the FDA, and it also imposes some confusing/ambiguous limitations on the FDA, but it's the first-ever attempt to regulate tobacco at the Federal level.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Jan 22, 2019 12:24:00 GMT -5
Communist China has more stringent rules about cigarette content and composition than we do.
Literally the smoking-est country on earth, where tobacco is sold by a state monopoly, is more diligent in this stuff. Can't make it up.
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 22, 2019 13:02:58 GMT -5
Thanks for answering my question, guys... Esp for that link, AJ.
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Post by qmechanics on Jan 22, 2019 16:52:10 GMT -5
Communist China has more stringent rules about cigarette content and composition than we do. Literally the smoking-est country on earth, where tobacco is sold by a state monopoly, is more diligent in this stuff. Can't make it up. And now we are following "Communist" China.... I guess that is a ringing endorsement, if I ever heard one 😁.
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Post by AJ on Jan 22, 2019 17:01:40 GMT -5
Communist China has more stringent rules about cigarette content and composition than we do. Literally the smoking-est country on earth, where tobacco is sold by a state monopoly, is more diligent in this stuff. Can't make it up. And now we are following "Communist" China.... I guess that is a ringing endorsement, if I ever heard one 😁. We all have our crosses to bear. AJ
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Jan 23, 2019 20:15:40 GMT -5
Communist China has more stringent rules about cigarette content and composition than we do. Literally the smoking-est country on earth, where tobacco is sold by a state monopoly, is more diligent in this stuff. Can't make it up. And now we are following "Communist" China.... I guess that is a ringing endorsement, if I ever heard one 😁. Free countries, where people get to vote for more than one party, are well ahead of us in many respects. That's ok. Different countries have different preferences. It doesn't rustle my jimmies to see one democracy outrun another by a bit. But it's a sad day when a repressive one-party state that makes money off of the suffering of its people is ahead of us!
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Post by qmechanics on Jan 24, 2019 8:03:51 GMT -5
And now we are following "Communist" China.... I guess that is a ringing endorsement, if I ever heard one 😁. Free countries, where people get to vote for more than one party, are well ahead of us in many respects. That's ok. Different countries have different preferences. It doesn't rustle my jimmies to see one democracy outrun another by a bit. But it's a sad day when a repressive one-party state that makes money off of the suffering of its people is ahead of us! I think you missed the statement's humor. It was intended to point out the irony in choosing the Chinese government's behavior to help justify the FDA's involvement. Did you ever consider that USA pipe smokers (& others) think that the FDA is operating as an oppressor not a liberator in this matter? Many of us do not see this action as a step in the right direction, but an example of big brother stepping on our lives; kind of like what “communist” China might do. Note: One can easily interpret the Chinese tobacco regulations as natural to a strong centralized plan and control structure, more than likely motivated by things other than any strong sense of altruistic care for its people; i.e. communism as played out in history. We are speaking about pipe tobacco regulation and the FDA, correct? So you think that defeating the FDA's intrusion into pipe tobacco would be a sad day and use the example of a “good thing” (i.e. tobacco regulation) that the oppressive*1 “Communist” Chinese government's did (i.e. A government known for oppressing its people is putting us to shame.) as one justification to support your position? I am sorry. I really do not think that regulating pipe tobacco constitutes a great day for the USA or believe your lament fits the situation. The potential loss of business, increase business costs, the end of the pipe blend renaissance, the expense to consumers' pockets etc. etc. *2 for me outweighs any benefit the FDA might bring. In addition, the pipe tobacco industry has done a fair job overall of regulating itself. So where is the justification? Simple we know this is more about the champions of “health” pushing their agenda, than issues with production, chemicals/drugs (nicotine etc.) or the children. Lets not forget, we are smoking a natural product ( It appears that nothing harmful or addictive is added to pipe tobacco unlike cigarettes; If in doubt take a pipe tobacco plant tour, they have nothing to hide.) treated with a casing, typically sugar water, to produce a more smoke-able product (With aromatics an additional topping(s) is(are) added.). Pipe smokers understand the score, our activities' possible consequences, and simply wish for our freedoms to go unmolested. We have already been forced into our own smoking habitats, causing little to no harm to others while facing ever increasing state & local pressure to conform. Still those who want to be our nannies come treading over us, never satisfied. Sound like freedom to you? *1 Lets not pretend that the Chinese government is under Mao and his minions anymore ;-). Oppression still exists in China, but the weight and degree of said suffering is not what it once was (I believe you are aware of this and am simply pointing out that the weight one gives to your point can be distorted by past history.). By looking to the West, the Chinese government oversees a country revitalized and more dynamic through limited though rather progressive (meant in a nonpolitical way) capitalistic reforms. There are much greater things to motivate us in terms of an "oppressive" China getting it right than tobacco regulation. *2 What will probably happen as things stand (discounting further FDA involvement) is many blends grandfathered in will probably continue untested (Some companies might not wish to import tobacco to the USA while others might close their doors (like McClelland)), most, if not all, blends produced thereafter will be gone (There might be some companies who will pay and/or absorb other brands/blends for approval.) and the boutique/start up pipe making companies will more than likely perish. So we are left paying even higher taxes for tobacco, with untested & fewer blends/pipes to choose from and little to nothing to show for it. Hmmmm There is more but I would like to get back to the question of the thread if you do not mind? PS Yes FDA intervention probably will get worse over time, given the approach used thus far and the utopianistic dreams of others.
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briarbuck
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Post by briarbuck on Jan 24, 2019 9:57:23 GMT -5
And now we are following "Communist" China.... I guess that is a ringing endorsement, if I ever heard one 😁. Free countries, where people get to vote for more than one party, are well ahead of us in many respects. That's ok. Different countries have different preferences. It doesn't rustle my jimmies to see one democracy outrun another by a bit. But it's a sad day when a repressive one-party state that makes money off of the suffering of its people is ahead of us!
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Jan 24, 2019 13:30:32 GMT -5
I’m not happy about the changes in pipe tobacco.
I’m very, very happy indeed to see action taken on cigarette regulation.
We are collateral damage.
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Post by libertysmoke on Jan 24, 2019 14:58:06 GMT -5
Free countries, where people get to vote for more than one party, are well ahead of us in many respects. That's ok. Different countries have different preferences. It doesn't rustle my jimmies to see one democracy outrun another by a bit. But it's a sad day when a repressive one-party state that makes money off of the suffering of its people is ahead of us! I think you missed the statement's humor. It was intended to point out the irony in choosing the Chinese government's behavior to help justify the FDA's involvement. Did you ever consider that USA pipe smokers (& others) think that the FDA is operating as an oppressor not a liberator in this matter? Many of us do not see this action as a step in the right direction, but an example of big brother stepping on our lives; kind of like what “communist” China might do. Note: One can easily interpret the Chinese tobacco regulations as natural to a strong centralized plan and control structure, more than likely motivated by things other than any strong sense of altruistic care for its people; i.e. communism as played out in history. We are speaking about pipe tobacco regulation and the FDA, correct? So you think that defeating the FDA's intrusion into pipe tobacco would be a sad day and use the example of a “good thing” (i.e. tobacco regulation) that the oppressive*1 “Communist” Chinese government's did (i.e. A government known for oppressing its people is putting us to shame.) as one justification to support your position? I am sorry. I really do not think that regulating pipe tobacco constitutes a great day for the USA or believe your lament fits the situation. The potential loss of business, increase business costs, the end of the pipe blend renaissance, the expense to consumers' pockets etc. etc. *2 for me outweighs any benefit the FDA might bring. In addition, the pipe tobacco industry has done a fair job overall of regulating itself. So where is the justification? Simple we know this is more about the champions of “health” pushing their agenda, than issues with production, chemicals/drugs (nicotine etc.) or the children. Lets not forget, we are smoking a natural product ( It appears that nothing harmful or addictive is added to pipe tobacco unlike cigarettes; If in doubt take a pipe tobacco plant tour, they have nothing to hide.) treated with a casing, typically sugar water, to produce a more smoke-able product (With aromatics an additional topping(s) is(are) added.). Pipe smokers understand the score, our activities' possible consequences, and simply wish for our freedoms to go unmolested. We have already been forced into our own smoking habitats, causing little to no harm to others while facing ever increasing state & local pressure to conform. Still those who want to be our nannies come treading over us, never satisfied. Sound like freedom to you? *1 Lets not pretend that the Chinese government is under Mao and his minions anymore ;-). Oppression still exists in China, but the weight and degree of said suffering is not what it once was (I believe you are aware of this and am simply pointing out that the weight one gives to your point can be distorted by past history.). By looking to the West, the Chinese government oversees a country revitalized and more dynamic through limited though rather progressive (meant in a nonpolitical way) capitalistic reforms. There are much greater things to motivate us in terms of an "oppressive" China getting it right than tobacco regulation. *2 What will probably happen as things stand (discounting further FDA involvement) is many blends grandfathered in will probably continue untested (Some companies might not wish to import tobacco to the USA while others might close their doors (like McClelland)), most, if not all, blends produced thereafter will be gone (There might be some companies who will pay and/or absorb other brands/blends for approval.) and the boutique/start up pipe making companies will more than likely perish. So we are left paying even higher taxes for tobacco, with untested & fewer blends/pipes to choose from and little to nothing to show for it. Hmmmm There is more but I would like to get back to the question of the thread if you do not mind? PS Yes FDA intervention probably will get worse over time, given the approach used thus far and the utopianistic dreams of others. HEAR ! HEAR ! We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ... the pursuit of Happiness ... Hello ?
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Post by monbla256 on Jan 24, 2019 16:03:59 GMT -5
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Post by Legend Lover on Jan 24, 2019 16:20:04 GMT -5
I'm sure there's a maximum they can charge without causing damage to revenue.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 12:32:43 GMT -5
And now we are following "Communist" China.... I guess that is a ringing endorsement, if I ever heard one 😁. Free countries, where people get to vote for more than one party, are well ahead of us in many respects. That's ok. Different countries have different preferences. It doesn't rustle my jimmies to see one democracy outrun another by a bit. But it's a sad day when a repressive one-party state that makes money off of the suffering of its people is ahead of us! China isn't ahead of the United States if you believe free people themselves are more inclined and smart/ responsible enough to regulate themselves. I'll leave it at that cause I'm not here for politics. But take your China admiring ...and
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Feb 2, 2019 14:04:51 GMT -5
Free countries, where people get to vote for more than one party, are well ahead of us in many respects. That's ok. Different countries have different preferences. It doesn't rustle my jimmies to see one democracy outrun another by a bit. But it's a sad day when a repressive one-party state that makes money off of the suffering of its people is ahead of us! China isn't ahead of the United States if you believe free people themselves are more inclined and smart/ responsible enough to regulate themselves. I'll leave it at that cause I'm not here for politics. But take your China admiring ...and It is a good thing that China followed the European lead and imposed combined Nicotine / CO limits on cigarettes. That's a good policy.
All I was saying is that it sucks real bad to live in a free country and see a dirtbag regime do better than us on a public health matter. It makes me feel ashamed.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2019 14:23:49 GMT -5
China isn't ahead of the United States if you believe free people themselves are more inclined and smart/ responsible enough to regulate themselves. I'll leave it at that cause I'm not here for politics. But take your China admiring ...and It is a good thing that China followed the European lead and imposed combined Nicotine / CO limits on cigarettes. That's a good policy.
All I was saying is that it sucks real bad to live in a free country and see a dirtbag regime do better than us on a public health matter.
Oh for Pete's sake, those people go about by the millions with white filter masks over their faces all day long throughout their cities. Absolutely nothing good they have to offer in regulation guidance to improve mankind's condition. Doing the exact opposite is the right direction. My friend here, from China was explaining to me that he could never get a hotel room with his girlfriend because they weren't married. Top of that, you have to get government permission just to travel between cities. Want to buy a kitchen knife? Yeah well first your name and id code must be etched on the blade. Government regulations on any tobacco, yes I hate cigarettes, is an infringement of American liberty. I live in Sweden. I assure you, Socialist paradise does not exist and never has.
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Post by smellthehatfirst on Feb 2, 2019 14:46:45 GMT -5
No one is admiring the Chinese regime here. Nor am I interested in living in a world where kitchen knives are regulated like weapons.
They got out ahead of us on one single item, and that annoys me. That is all.
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Post by sperrytops on Feb 2, 2019 15:02:25 GMT -5
Interesting. States love their taxes, so I think you're right.
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