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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 11, 2020 12:09:30 GMT -5
It still needs expanding bullets to do what the 45 will do with hardball. Which begs the question, why would anyone not have expanding rounds in a daily carry? Well, my daily carry is a 9mm,so I do carry expanding ammo. I really don't feel the need in the 45. I like the 230 grain flat nose in it. Even the 9mm got along well for a hundred years with hardball. If you have a gun that you haven't had a chance to thoroughly test with a particular hollow point at least you know that FMJ will feed. Right now you can't find hollow points so that's a factor. This is just "campfire conversation". What I say and what I do may not be the same. 😊🤔 For instance, if I am carrying the 2" 44 revolver, there's no point in using hollow points, because they aren't going to expand anyway. But I think the 255 grain wadcutters at 700 fps will make the point. I'm old fashioned that way. 😁😎🤠 |
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Post by toshtego on Oct 11, 2020 15:48:31 GMT -5
It still needs expanding bullets to do what the 45 will do with hardball. Which begs the question, why would anyone not have expanding rounds in a daily carry? Because hey are opposed to Expansionist Policies? They are Minimalists? They are philosophically aligned with penetration? |
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Post by Darin on Oct 11, 2020 16:00:30 GMT -5
LOL 
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Post by lizardonarock on Oct 11, 2020 16:45:15 GMT -5
See my previous post that after the FBI shoot out in Miami they developed the 40SW for people opposed to expansionist policies, folks that live near Ruby Ridge and folks who wear Kevlar. There are other rounds for people who hide behind engine blocks and smart bombs for bunker dwellers.
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Post by trailboss on Oct 11, 2020 17:10:12 GMT -5
Again, there is that!
Sage advice, Ron.
I bought Sellier Bellot rounds and for the life of me, it turned my (long departed) Taurus Millenium pro into a jam-o-matic.
Side by side with the unjammable ammo, I could not discern a difference in length or girth...I did not break out the calipers to measure though.
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Post by lizardonarock on Oct 11, 2020 17:33:48 GMT -5
Back in the 90s Taurus was a horrible weapon I wonder if they have improved.
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Post by bigwoolie on Oct 11, 2020 17:38:17 GMT -5
See my previous post that after the FBI shoot out in Miami they developed the 40SW for people opposed to expansionist policies, folks that live near Ruby Ridge and folks who wear Kevlar. There are other rounds for people who hide behind engine blocks and smart bombs for bunker dwellers. There is an entire sub-culture of debate on just the .40sw. Im my humble, much studied opinion (an opinion that carries no weight and claims no authority 😊) the .40sw was a solution looking for a problem. In simplified terms, The FBI began expanding their hiring policies years ago to include more women and minorities. This was a positive thing. However, this also meant that fewer agents were large males with big hands, and thus fewer agents were comfortable with the recoil of the then-issued 10mm. The .45 didnt hold enough ammo, to their thinking, and the ammo for the 9mm had it's own issues, as has been correctly stated on here. In truth, the .40sw was developed as a dumbed down 10mm. I think it does not do what the 9mm was designed for as well as the 9mm does (lots of ammo carried on-person), nor does it accomplish what the 10mm and .45acp does (knock-down, stopping power) as well as they do. It has its place, but it's place is purely bringing about a compromise where compromise should not have been necessary. But that's just me, and Im wrong a lot. 😁 If one shoots the 40sw well, likes and trusts it, then they're good to go. |
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Post by trailboss on Oct 11, 2020 17:55:32 GMT -5
Back in the 90s Taurus was a horrible weapon I wonder if they have improved. Mine was bought in 2005, and it performed well until it didn't. I took it to the range, and it ran flawlessly, when home field stripped it and loaded it up with carry ammo and carried it for three weeks. Went to the range...click, click, click...no bang. The firing pin had broken on my last shot at the previous range session, I was carrying it for three weeks in that condition. I sent it back to Taurus and they repaired it at no cost, but my confidence in that gun was gone. I sold it off on Craigslist. Dewayne, your comment on the .40 is spot on in every way, at least in my opinion. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 11, 2020 18:47:50 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with the 40, it's just not popular for some reason. But you can get ammo for it. A friend offered to give me one 7 or 8 years ago.
It was one of S&Ws cheapest model and the trigger was unusable. I passed.
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Post by lizardonarock on Oct 11, 2020 19:10:56 GMT -5
xnay on Taurus the firing pin was the same problem years ago on the six shooters. You can fire the 40 right in place of 10mm it Is just shorter by 3.6mm if you own a Glock 10mm fire away other brands depends on the ejector design. But then the Glock always has been a very sloppy pistol in regards to tight specs. Glocks you either love em or hate em. I feel the same way about the Beretta 92FS. Meself no like guns that rattle.
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briarbuck
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Post by briarbuck on Oct 12, 2020 8:31:48 GMT -5
Ammo is so expensive and hard to find that I've chosen to target certain calibers. 9mm and 45
Based on my reading you can get in the weeds with all the different variations.
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Post by toshtego on Oct 12, 2020 14:09:25 GMT -5
See my previous post that after the FBI shoot out in Miami they developed the 40SW for people opposed to expansionist policies, folks that live near Ruby Ridge and folks who wear Kevlar. There are other rounds for people who hide behind engine blocks and smart bombs for bunker dwellers. .38 Super in a 1911 would have handled any of those problems and has been around since the late 1920s. |
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Post by toshtego on Oct 12, 2020 14:14:30 GMT -5
My only comment about the .40 is based upon film footage years ago. Taken by a News Chopper with a long lens over an LA Freeway. A perp was attempting to run a roadblock in a car. A CHP officer emptied his newly issued .40 at the car which kept on going past him and on down the road. The officer held up the pistol and a look of total disgust scowled across his face. He was probably wishing he still had his Smith & Wesson Model 28 or Python.
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jay
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Post by jay on Oct 12, 2020 16:34:34 GMT -5
My wife and I had been married for 4 years when she saw the ammunition storage for the first time.
"What do you need all that for?"
"Decepticons," I replied.
She laughed, I laughed, the fridge laughed, I shot the fridge. It was a good time.
Seriously, I told her that if I never used it all up, and died before she did, she would be able to sell it and buy a new car.
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Post by instymp on Oct 12, 2020 17:16:42 GMT -5
The 40, glock 23/22/27 was carried for years by FBI and when they flipped to 9MM to accommodate some, everyone in the USA followed course & got rid of their 40's. If the FBI does it, it has to be right.
I speak from experience & wish I had my Glock 23 back, even though I am not a Glock lover.
PS, 40s work.
Just my opinion though.
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 12, 2020 18:01:02 GMT -5
My only comment about the .40 is based upon film footage years ago. Taken by a News Chopper with a long lens over an LA Freeway. A perp was attempting to run a roadblock in a car. A CHP officer emptied his newly issued .40 at the car which kept on going past him and on down the road. The officer held up the pistol and a look of total disgust scowled across his face. He was probably wishing he still had his Smith & Wesson Model 28 or Python. That could happen with any weapon if he didn't hit anything vital. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 12, 2020 18:03:28 GMT -5
The 40, glock 23/22/27 was carried for years by FBI and when they flipped to 9MM to accommodate some, everyone in the USA followed course & got rid of their 40's. If the FBI does it, it has to be right. I speak from experience & wish I had my Glock 23 back, even though I am not a Glock lover. PS, 40s work. Just my opinion though. I figure how bad can it be. If a 9mm is good and a 45 is good, then the 40 has to also be good. |
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Post by toshtego on Oct 12, 2020 18:50:31 GMT -5
The 40, glock 23/22/27 was carried for years by FBI and when they flipped to 9MM to accommodate some, everyone in the USA followed course & got rid of their 40's. If the FBI does it, it has to be right. I speak from experience & wish I had my Glock 23 back, even though I am not a Glock lover. PS, 40s work. Just my opinion though. Years ago, the "American Rifleman" had an article detailing the history of handguns used by the FBI SAs. It seems they carried just about every gun which was made in the USA at one time or another. Never satisfied, always looking for something better. They sure had a lot to choose from. I gather their challenge was the variations in physical dimensions of SAs. Back in the Hoover days, SA came about the same. Now they have all kinds of different sized people with varying levels of strength and hand size. A one size fits all policy probably is not the way to go. |
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Post by trailboss on Oct 13, 2020 0:17:41 GMT -5
An interesting podcast about no matter how potent the round, if you are facing a committed ner do well, it can lead to a long day.
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briarbuck
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Post by briarbuck on Oct 13, 2020 8:37:47 GMT -5
Which begs the question, why would anyone not have expanding rounds in a daily carry? Well, my daily carry is a 9mm,so I do carry expanding ammo. I really don't feel the need in the 45. I like the 230 grain flat nose in it. Even the 9mm got along well for a hundred years with hardball. If you have a gun that you haven't had a chance to thoroughly test with a particular hollow point at least you know that FMJ will feed. Right now you can't find hollow points so that's a factor. This is just "campfire conversation". What I say and what I do may not be the same. 😊🤔 For instance, if I am carrying the 2" 44 revolver, there's no point in using hollow points, because they aren't going to expand anyway. But I think the 255 grain wadcutters at 700 fps will make the point. I'm old fashioned that way. 😁😎🤠 Ammoseek.com |
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Post by oldcajun123 on Oct 13, 2020 10:46:14 GMT -5
 Yep if the perp is high on shite, you got a problem, my good friend who has passed was a State Trooper had a newly issued 357,and one night on The Gold Coast in West Baton Rouge parish a perp was shooting up a night club. My friend said perp ran out of the club and charged him and his partner, he said they shot him so full of holes he looked like Swiss cheese and he still kept coming, finally he went down, seems like he was high on Meth. That’s why I like my 12 gauge.
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 13, 2020 11:45:10 GMT -5
Well, my daily carry is a 9mm,so I do carry expanding ammo. I really don't feel the need in the 45. I like the 230 grain flat nose in it. Even the 9mm got along well for a hundred years with hardball. If you have a gun that you haven't had a chance to thoroughly test with a particular hollow point at least you know that FMJ will feed. Right now you can't find hollow points so that's a factor. This is just "campfire conversation". What I say and what I do may not be the same. 😊🤔 For instance, if I am carrying the 2" 44 revolver, there's no point in using hollow points, because they aren't going to expand anyway. But I think the 255 grain wadcutters at 700 fps will make the point. I'm old fashioned that way. 😁😎🤠 Ammoseek.com I use Ammoseek. I have plenty of ammo at this time. I last used Ammoseek last month to find. some hollow points for my Tt-33. |
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 13, 2020 11:56:33 GMT -5
The 45 ACP was specifically designed to stop drugged up maniacs, and reports over the last 109 years indicate that it works, with or without expanding ammunition. Still, like the Cape Buffalo, some large criminal may shrug off any damage and continue the attack, requiring shooting to break down the chassis. Busted spine, brain, knees, etc. I hope to never encounter a violent individual at all, but I especially hope to never have to deal with a 6'10, 450 lb criminal high on a combination of meth, fentanyl, cocaine, oxycodone, and PCP. If I do I figure I must have made a big mistake and my number is up. Nobody lives forever. I don't think my EDC 9mm with ANY ammo would be effective. Or even my 45 if I don't have time for a head shot. If I know he's coming I have weapons that would stop him, but I can't carry them around with me.
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jay
Junior Member
Edward's Pipes....only Edward's pipes....and Buccaneer in the bowl
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Post by jay on Oct 13, 2020 12:32:41 GMT -5
My guess is that we would all generally agree that the gun you have with you when you need one is to be preferred over the firearm that would be perfect...if you could reach home to get it. Having said that, I know that I have a personal (and that's all it is, personal) preference for the 1911 .45 ACP. I also still carry a Ruger LCP a lot and have a snubbie .38 revolver in a lock box in the truck.
I still remember the look of surprise I got from the arms room sergeant when I asked if I could keep my .45 instead of the 9mm they wanted to issue. Of course, she was maybe 22 years old...LOL. It may be partially a function of age (said the old guy).
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Post by puffy on Oct 13, 2020 17:54:13 GMT -5
I have small hands so I have never preferred large guns..I've had a 380 for over 20 years..I was at an outdoor range one day years ago.I saw a woman beside me having a very hard time trying to shoot a gun..I asked her husband what was going on.He was trying to show her how to shoot a 45..I told him that if he wanted her to shoot he should get her a gun she could handle.
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Post by Plainsman on Oct 13, 2020 20:24:14 GMT -5
Interesting topic and some very good points made. I’ve just let my certification lapse after 30 years as a self-defense handgun instructor. I don’t by any means think I’ve “seen it all,” but pretty close. The advances in ballistic engineering with the 9mm Luger cartridge are nothing short of astounding. It has become what it never really used to be: a viable choice for realistic self-defense. Still, no handgun is a guaranteed one-shot stopper. I’m kind of of the opinion that in Bad Times the handgun is a tool to help you get to your rifle, or shotgun.
The ammo shortage is real and extensive. I use practically no factory ammo as I hand-load my own ammunition. Immediately prior to Obama’s coronation I sniffed the wind and stocked up on components, just in time, a program I have followed since.
BTW, my favorite 9mm is a CZ-75B, with a close second of a same-model compact. The 75B holds 17 rounds, and also takes a 32-round magazine. That’s a lot of metal to put downrange... or wherever.
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 13, 2020 21:48:31 GMT -5
My nightstand pistol is a Star 30M. It copied a lot of the features of the CZ 75. I would want it to be in my hand if close quarter trouble was at hand. I have 17 and 30 round magazines for it. Luckily it uses S&W M 59 mags. They also work in my camp carbine. Still, if I find myself in a situation where I need 17 rounds or more I really messed up somewhere.
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Post by puffy on Oct 13, 2020 22:10:06 GMT -5
The guy who taught me to shoot told me that I shouldn't just get the first shot..I should get the only shot.
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Post by toshtego on Oct 14, 2020 15:43:39 GMT -5
My nightstand pistol is a Star 30M. It copied a lot of the features of the CZ 75. I would want it to be in my hand if close quarter trouble was at hand. I have 17 and 30 round magazines for it. Luckily it uses S&W M 59 mags. They also work in my camp carbine. Still, if I find myself in a situation where I need 17 rounds or more I really messed up somewhere. That is mighty fancy. I figured on something more traditional for you bedside table.  |
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Post by Ronv69 on Oct 14, 2020 15:54:23 GMT -5
My nightstand pistol is a Star 30M. It copied a lot of the features of the CZ 75. I would want it to be in my hand if close quarter trouble was at hand. I have 17 and 30 round magazines for it. Luckily it uses S&W M 59 mags. They also work in my camp carbine. Still, if I find myself in a situation where I need 17 rounds or more I really messed up somewhere. That is mighty fancy. I figured on something more traditional for you bedside table. "I want an Astra 400!" said nobody, ever. It's one pistol that's never been copied. |
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Yep if the perp is high on shite, you got a problem, my good friend who has passed was a State Trooper had a newly issued 357,and one night on The Gold Coast in West Baton Rouge parish a perp was shooting up a night club. My friend said perp ran out of the club and charged him and his partner, he said they shot him so full of holes he looked like Swiss cheese and he still kept coming, finally he went down, seems like he was high on Meth. That’s why I like my 12 gauge.
